Is our historical past something to be ashamed of?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:21:41 -0400

We're still hearing about the removal of historical monuments/symbols and names of historical persons from everything from locations of the historical event, buildings, to social events. Is this going to make anything better? Erasing the historical past can have a negative result. By failing to learn from our past and preserving that memory we are creating the situation where the past may be repeated. None of this is going to stop or change racism. Racism is not born from a site, symbol or name, it is born from being taught to hate. It starts early at home. Even if erasing history would make the world a better place it is a bad idea because history is the story of life, of human development. Nothing that we human beings ever do is going to be perfect and mistakes will continue to be made. Hind sight is always 20/20. http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/flashback-friday-reagan-erasing-history-will-erode-american-spirit

I was inspired to write this after reading an article in which there was a statement referring to America's "shameful 200 year history". Reading this aggravated me. Our country has struggled through a lot of difficulties, difficulties that should make us stronger, more capable and proud. Mistakes were made, corrections were made and our nation survived.

FLASHBACK FRIDAY: Reagan: Erasing History Will Erode American Spirit

It seemed appropriate as America prepares to celebrate its independence this 4th of July weekend to read the prophetic words of President Ronald Reagan made in his farewell address to the nation from the Oval Office in 1989. These words have never resounded more true than now as many in America are scrambling to erase vast portions of foundational American history. Instead of eradicating history as Reagan warns against here, may an "informed...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 12:25 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:25:59 -0400

Stop the Madness! Keep our history alive. It is just that our History. When history is forgotten you are doomed to repeat it. How are we as a supposedly enlightened culture even considering this?

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Sep 2 at 2015 12:28 AM

SSgt Terry P. — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:28:47 -0400

I am not ashamed of our history.The present is more shameful to me.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 12:32 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:32:37 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member, thank you for your post, it is a good read, our countries history is what it is for a reason. The good, the bad and the ugly is what makes our country unique and strong. Are there certain things that could of been done differently, yes, but that's just part of our countries growth. Technically our history as a country still is relatively short compared to must countries. Although our country still has a lot to learn and we are going through some current growing pains, I wouldn't want to be part of any other nation.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Sep 2 at 2015 12:36 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:36:37 -0400

We've done a lot of Great, Good and Wonderful Things. We have done a lot Sick, Disgusting and Deplorable things. Perspective is always important and we should not sugar coat our History or take the Victors Propaganda Stance. 21 years in Military Intelligence has made my View of US History very Nuanced to say the least.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Sep 2 at 2015 12:37 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 00:37:58 -0400

Santayana: Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it...

Response by SN Greg Wright made Sep 2 at 2015 1:32 AM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 01:32:51 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member Some of it, for sure. A fact that isn't discussed much is that we killed more Native Americans than the Nazis did Jews. That's definitely something that we should be ashamed of....and, it's not something we should erase. We SHOULD remember it. We SHOULD strive to be better, and we OWE those victims the only thing we can now give them: acknowledgement. Slavery as well, of course. Nobody outside of German radicals is trying to erase the Holocaust from the history books, and we shouldn't our atrocities, either. Horrible as they are -- and they were -- they are part of our history, part of our institutional upbringing, as it were. Nothing will change that. Not removing flags from buildings, not giving handsfuls of survivors land and conveniently forgetting about them. We should own our history -- all of it. Because we can't escape any of it.

Response by SSG Leo Bell made Sep 2 at 2015 2:19 AM

SSG Leo Bell — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 02:19:18 -0400

No never. Because without the past and past mistake and achievements you can never be able to make a better future. With the achievements you can improve on the and make things better like all the invention that's has made this country great and has helped it progress and improve in technology and medicines. With our mistakes we learn not to make the same one and hopefully improve on what we learned from them.

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Sep 2 at 2015 2:21 AM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 02:21:58 -0400

Removing any form of history from our past as a nation or as individuals is not progress. The only way to gauge ones progress is by observing ones starting point. How can we know if we as a nation are improving if we are not allowed to compair our present with our past. According to our president nothing we have done in the last 40 years (recycling) has helped us to cool the planet. He said last year was the hottest on record. If we remove the record how do we know If he is being truthful?

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 2 at 2015 2:43 AM

SSG John Erny — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 02:43:20 -0400

The great cry of the White Liberal apologists is that it must be something the United States has done to rot so much suffering on people in the past and that somehow the country must be made to pay for it. Every wrong must be righted no matter how much time has passed and even if all involved are long since dead. I am by no means saying that it should not be recognized as a historical fact and it certainly is nothing to be proud of. It is something however to be learned from and used a measure of where we came from as a country and where we are going. No America is not perfect but we are a work in progress. In fact it says so in the preamble: “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union.”

Here is why the apologists are wrong. If the rebellion had failed and the United States never formed would Africans and Native Americans been treated any better by the nations of Europe? No they would not have; Europe has a long history of colonial occupation around the world to prove that. In fact they were still trying to control colonies with in the life times of many of you reading this. Canada was a British colony? Who knew? Most colonies were not treated as well as our neighbor to the north. The Zulu’s come to mind.

Look at the condition of the Native American peoples in Mexico, Central, and South America. They were treated just great by the Spanish Conquistadors right? No they were killed in vast numbers. So should Spain and the rest of Europe pony up and start writing checks and erasing everything they left in the new world from history? Well that is not going to happen for many reasons, one being they have yet to pay us back for WWII; two they don’t respond well to American demands; three they don’t have the money anyway.

Only non-whites were treated badly prior to the American Revolution right? Wrong, the first slaves or as a sanitized version of history called them indentured servants were white. For some reason the British found that the Irish were undesirable and should be killed on the spot our sold as slaves in the new world. Some Irish were still fighting the Crown right up until about 20 years ago. *
We like any other Nation have our faults but the world is better off with us than without us. We are getting better all the time. The future is what we make of it.

* http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 5:47 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 05:47:30 -0400

These are the same people that would be wearing a che guevara tshirt, who idolize lenin and stalin. Those asking for that are just idiots, and incapable to understand that what is done, stays done. Erasing it will not make it undone.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Sep 2 at 2015 7:35 AM

SSG Gerhard S. — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 07:35:30 -0400

Clearly there are regrettable, and terrible events in our Country's past. There is little value to be gained though by feeling shamed by actions perpetrated by people long deceased. The idea of national shame for decades, it centuries old atrocities accomplishes nothing. Instead, a clear understanding of our history SHOULD include lessons that either should, or should NOT be emulated.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 2 at 2015 7:47 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 07:47:58 -0400

The past is just that, the past, we can't atone or amend for what happened hundreds of years ago when the world and our country ran on different principles, economics, thought processes, etc. We have to accept the past as the past and move on and acknowledge what we've done since to improve everyone's lot in life. This revisionist history is crap, just crap. You don't erase our roots because someone finds part of it politically incorrect because it changes how we got to where we are now.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 8:10 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:10:54 -0400

Food for thought: You know who else is erasing historical monuments? Daesh.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 2 at 2015 8:16 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:16:00 -0400

No! When taken out of context and not considering events that led to many of our "black" marks, it would appear that we do. However, IMO each and every time through the prism of history, we have done much to make up for those perceived wrongs. Way too many victims want to be compensated, in some way or another, for actions that have absolutely nothing to do with our societal issues today. Even Historians can not agree on events and what led up to actions taken during these events.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 9:43 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:43:28 -0400

I don't know that we should be ashamed of it...after all, no one alive in the US was part of owning slaves or forcibly marching Native Americans off their land. However, we do need to view history fully, and not cover up the bad things that the American government and military have done in the past. To view the past only as a series of great American triumphs will lead us to commit the same mistakes in the future.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 2 at 2015 9:48 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:48:27 -0400

The good things in our past deserve pride. The vile things in our past deserve shame. But all things need to be remembered.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 2 at 2015 9:50 AM

COL Jon Thompson — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 09:50:15 -0400

Understanding our history is so important because it ties citizens to the values upon which our nation was founded. It also shows how we have struggled to reach those ideals and how we have fallen short. But it also should provide hope that we can change because we have changed in the past. I am not sure there is one civilization, empire, kingdom, or country that has done more good in the world based on my knowledge of history. Feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong. Our American spirit does come from our past and if we forget that, we lose the moral basis for our values. Unfortunately, I think this is already happening in our schools and universities.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Sep 2 at 2015 10:14 AM

LTC Bink Romanick — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 10:14:16 -0400

The past is the past,?yes som parts of our history are less than sterling. That being said, you can't always judge history by current standards.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 2 at 2015 11:41 AM

SGT Scott Bell — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 11:41:20 -0400

Response by SGT Anthony Rossi made Sep 2 at 2015 12:31 PM

SGT Anthony Rossi — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:31:21 -0400

Should we remove Dr. Kings "I have a dream" speech because it points to a time out history when there was a struggle for equality?

Response by Sgt Jay Jones made Sep 2 at 2015 12:33 PM

Sgt Jay Jones — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:33:07 -0400

I think a lot of people forget that "History" is what we live. If you would reflect on your own individual lives you see many instances that are in fact "History". I saw the Berlin Wall go up and I saw it come down. I saw the first Space Shuttle flight as well as Alan Shepard's foray into space. I saw and experienced the Vietnam War. I watched Desert Shield and Desert Storm. I saw Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom. I saw the assassination of President Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Malcom X and Robert Kennedy. I saw attempted assassinations on George Wallace and President Gerald R. Ford and Ronald Reagan. I have seen political scandals, entertainment scandals, religious scandals. All of these evens are History and they are all in my lifetime. What happens if some chooses to leave out an issue in the history books that they feel makes them or someone they favor look bad. This is where we are at. Some historians have chosen to eliminate some of the "uglier" aspects of our American History. That is one reason we have some of the problems we have today. I know many here on Rally Point feel that President Obama is the worst President in our countries history. However, you must remember the same thing was said about President Abraham Lincoln during his lifetime. We know he was in fact on of our greatest Presidents. In my humble opinion, I believe the History Books will be kind to President Barack Obama as having been on of the most effective presidents in recent years. Please don't indulge me with all kinds of "hate" responses. I appreciate responses that politely voice opposing views.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Sep 2 at 2015 12:35 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:35:11 -0400

I'm against removing history in the sense of "cleansing" it. We do have a sh*tty history as Americans, but it's helped define us and in some cases make us better than the rest. If you're going to move something into another area where it's still there (Jeff Davis statue for ex), I have no issues with it. But to destroy it is dumb and ignorant on ALL parts.
I saw a picture like this one on FB where the poster mentions how blacks want to bring up slavery as an issue for current ills, when he claims neither he nor his family had slaves. A commentator to the post said that you expect blacks to forget and get over slavery being it happened over 150 years ago, blacks also owned slaves, yet the holocaust happened over 70 years ago, Jews sold out their own, and it's still set as a standard of pain and suffering and it's ok for them to invoke it? The debate went on and on, but the bottom line for me is, we need to embrace our past both good and bad. No one should have a monopoly on suffering or success. That's not what history is. History shouldn't relegated to certain months that you can tune out when it's not "your" month. Our country isn't and will never be perfect; but it's the ONLY one we have and we need to acknowledge our faults and our successes.

Response by TSgt Kevin Buccola made Sep 2 at 2015 12:35 PM

TSgt Kevin Buccola — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:35:46 -0400

History is just that History - Teach it in school and learn from history...you cannot pick and choose history.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 2 at 2015 12:43 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 12:43:55 -0400

The media and president claim racism which is more false than truth.

Response by COL Ted Mc made Sep 2 at 2015 1:26 PM

COL Ted Mc — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 13:26:40 -0400

CPT Private RallyPoint Member - Captain; America's past contains many incidents which, if they happened today, would be shameful.

However they DID NOT happen today and the fact of the matter is that America has risen to the state that it is because it was able to OVERCOME those incidents and move ever closer to the thoughts and sentiments set out in "The American Ideal". (Whether "The American Ideal" was ever an actual fact is irrelevant because it is an IDEAL and the country [hopefully] keeps trying to move closer to it.)

What has to be done is to abandon the hypocrisy of pretending that America is now, always has been, and always will be, perfect and motivated solely by the highest moral standards and disinterested concern for all people in order to bring peace and prosperity to the entire world (while letting the people of other countries have the absolute freedom to control their own destinies in their own manners). Only then will the American people realize how fortunate they have been and the hard work that is going to be needed to maintain that good fortune.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 2 at 2015 3:55 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:55:55 -0400

It is a fact that many nations were borne out of war, violence, and discrimination.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 5:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 17:08:55 -0400

We are a people who set some very high ideals and then struggled throughout our history to meet them, sometimes we achieved them and at other times we fell short. It was our revolution that was the beginning of the end for Monarchies around the world in favor of Representative governments. In 1776 we declared that all men were created equal, in 1861 we went to war over slavery, in 1920 we extended the right to vote to women, and in 2015 we finally allowed same sex partners to marry. If we can learn from the bad and emulate and expand on the good, continue the struggle to expand liberty and justice for all… we can still be the greatest nation this world has ever seen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 5:13 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 17:13:48 -0400

The only shame is for a person or people to know they did something wrong and then do it again in spite of knowing it is wrong. If they don't know well then I guess you can't fix stupid.

Response by PFC Robert Falk made Sep 3 at 2015 6:26 PM

PFC Robert Falk — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 18:26:21 -0400

I ain't raciest but I fly the battle flag and I am proud of its heritage.

Response by SGT Gregory Reilly made Sep 5 at 2015 12:43 AM

SGT Gregory Reilly — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 00:43:00 -0400

No, our past is our history. You shouldn't be ashamed of history, but there's nothing wrong with learning from it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2015 1:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Sep 2015 01:16:12 -0400

Our history is a vital part of who we are as a society. We have no real hope of a future, if we erase or try to forget our past.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 6 at 2015 1:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 06 Sep 2015 13:52:24 -0400

We need to blame all the European explorers for bringing diseases that wiped out most of the indigenous people of the Americas.