Is it within regulation to counsel a soldier for facial hair stubble even though he did shave that morning and proved it?

2019-07-24T09:59:29-04:00

Soldier shaves every morning, but his facial hair grows back pretty quick. By noon some stubble grows back. His NCOIC is aware of how fast his facial hair grows but because the unit’s CSM and 1SG noticed it and weren’t aware of it the NCOIC counsels him and makes him go shave again. Soldier has sensitive skin as it is. Shaving makes him break out, but he can’t get a shaving profile. He’s gotten denied multiple times. So Soldier signs the counsel statement because he’s fed up with the NCOIC switching up on him. Some days he wants to agree with the Soldier and other days he wants to kiss up to others and save face by pulling out counselings left and right. Is this within regulation to make a soldier shave twice a day? Thoughts?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2019 10:03 AM

2019-07-24T10:03:54-04:00

According to regulations, (paraphrasing) Soldiers will have a clean shaven and professional look at all times. So yes, it is within regs to order a Soldier to shave twice a day. I'm surprised the Soldier was denied a shaving profile if they break out from shaving.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2019 10:55 AM

2019-07-24T10:55:51-04:00

As my facial hair continued to grow faster and faster as I aged, I invested in a portable shaver so I could shave on-the-go (during lunch, etc) IOT keep a clean and professional appearance.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Jul 24 at 2019 11:27 AM

2019-07-24T11:27:27-04:00

Response by MAJ Karen Wall made Jul 24 at 2019 12:04 PM

2019-07-24T12:04:09-04:00

I'm not an expert on shaving, but it is not his fault that his facial hair does that, so why punish him? If there is proof he shaved already, that should suffice for the day. As a medical person, I advise his NCOIC to get out there and advocate for him with the medical team to get him taken care of with some documentation so he is not having to waste his, and the unit's, time shaving multiple times per day. Plenty of soldiers have shaving profiles for various reasons, and if his skin is sensitive and he is being made to irritate it unnecessarily throughout the day, a lot worse will result when he develops a service-connected condition upon ETSing that could have been avoided with a little bit of effort and compassion by his command. Just my personal and professional opinion.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2019 7:48 PM

2019-07-24T19:48:04-04:00

Personally, I only shave once a week, however my facial hair does grow back by the next day. I personally use the regulation to my advantage, nothing states that we have to use a "real" razor, so i use an electric razor to keep a "clean shaven" appearance, I deal with all levels of rank and what not on Fort Benning, I have never been told by anyone that I need to go and shave again. Plus an electric razor can be much more forgiving on the face. I'd tell this soldier to go and purchase a high quality ( I use Braun) and keep in in a backpack at work or his locker if he has one. He can take 2 minutes at lunch or whenever to do a quick touch up.

Alternatively, he can go to the dermatology clinic and get laser hair removal done, most bases have this at their hospital. I would also recommend to him this option, it will keep his facial hair from growing for months, and when it starts again, he just returns and get it done again. CSM Gragg, the MEDCOM CSM has this done and he recommends it to ALL soldiers if they have issues with shaving.

Feel free to ask further questions if this wasn't very clear.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jul 25 at 2019 3:05 AM

2019-07-25T03:05:13-04:00

Yes it is perfectly acceptable to counsel a soldier about that. Regulation standards are not a "only in the AM" thing. Regs are regs. I had a SM when I was in Europe that had to shave twice a day. We found that if he shaved in the morning and then kept like an electric razor on hand to touch up every so often he was fine throughout the day.

Response by SFC Nicole White made Jul 25 at 2019 4:15 AM

2019-07-25T04:15:44-04:00

AR 670-1 specifically states: “Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform or in civilian clothes on duty. Mustaches are permitted; ” Therefore no matter how many times you need to shave you are required to do so. You may want to look into other hair removal options if you don’t wish to shave continuously. Waxing or a depilatory are options. Just FYI, a shaving profile is only for personnel who medically need one. Fast growing hair is not a medical issue.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jul 25 at 2019 6:56 AM

2019-07-25T06:56:39-04:00

This is the part where you have some NCO's that just wear the stripes and some NCO's that understand what an NCO is. Being a leader mean doing what is right and necessary regardless of the outcome career wise. As stated before the regs are quite clear about being clean shaven. If there is a medical condition which causes run away facial hair growth then there are three paths to a solution, 1) Pursue the chain of command for a final outcome as high as necessary. 2) Pursue the medical chain as far as needed for either a permanent shaving profile or a solution to the facial hair issue. 3) Soldiers shaving issue prevents him from being able to be in the Army and leaves for a profession that doesn't have shaving regulations. There comes a time where you have to invest time and effort on those you can help rather than rinse and repeat on one Soldier. The COC that keeps visiting this issue has been in long enough to see a majority of those who abuse the shaving profile or push it to the limits just because they can. This tends to cause good Soldiers to get caught up in over zealous enforcement on others. The NCO who is not consistent for his/her Soldiers is doing no favors for the troops and is actually showing piss poor leadership which will make things worse and set a poor example for others.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 25 at 2019 2:14 PM

2019-07-25T14:14:19-04:00

1. Why didn't you read the reg? It states just what Livingston said. 2. Why doesn't he get either a shaving profile, of better yet an electric razor? 3. The CSM/1SG don't have to know if the SM is/was counseled- all they have to see is that the SM had stubble when they saw him. And yes they can order him to shave- SM's option of what to shave with. It could have been turned over to the Sm list line NCO to handle. Since he knows the SM a verbal counseling would have worked, like "run electric razor over mug by 1300.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Jul 26 at 2019 8:24 PM

2019-07-26T20:24:07-04:00

A Twink writes up a bear.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Jul 26 at 2019 8:40 PM

2019-07-26T20:40:36-04:00

I knew a guy in boot, he had a Flintstones cartoon looking beard area. His face follicles made a black on white looking beard outline. He used his ID card like an old razor commercial, scrape scrape, silent. No noise, I'm shaved.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2022 6:15 AM

2022-11-06T06:15:20-05:00

I got a counseling like that and had to write a 500 word easy about AR 670 - 1 I’m familiar with it and made sure to keep myself in regulation but I’m black and have curly 4c hair and my face broke out several times while I’ve been in TRADOC I haven’t gone to the TMC at Ft Lee because if miss too much POI they’ll recycle you at TSED (59 OD BD AIT). What does my new drill sgt do? Council me for a 5:00 shadow after I’ve expressed I’m attempting to shave and maintain grooming standards AR 670 - 1 Chapter 3 Section 2 (b). I don’t give a darn about the rule and I’m gonna follow it as best I can, but if you’re leadership and see me and another black solder with scaring from folliculitis and an active TERRIBLE outbreak in which his face is covered with it, why in the name of everything holy would you write a DA 4856 with the tone of willful violation. Especially if I’ve never caused any trouble and do exactly what I’m told to keep the drill SGTs away from my 31 year old self?? I came in as a specialist because I have 2 bachelors and a masters. I got recycled for land navigation at OCS and was subsequently force enlisted and sent to AIT for an MOS I never chose. Help me here!?