Is it okay to use a "smoke" session as corrective training? What creative exercise did you hate the most?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:43:32 -0500

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:44:36 -0500

My drill sergeant had a thing for mule kicks, he loved to tell us privates to "kick your own asses"

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 27 at 2016 12:46 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:46:27 -0500

Grass Drill. I've demonstrated this to supposedly "fit" athletes and they always succumb after just a couple of minutes

Response by SSgt Robert Marx made Jan 27 at 2016 12:46 PM

SSgt Robert Marx — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:46:56 -0500

Mountain climbers. The recruit bent over with hands on floor and then took giant strides with alternating legs all the while keeping balance.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Jan 27 at 2016 12:48 PM

Capt Mark Strobl — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:48:22 -0500

Making "Sand Angels" accompanied by "rain." Lying in the sand, doing flutter kicks, and repeatedly throwing sand into the air --"team building" one will never see in the civilian world!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 12:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:53:15 -0500

AIT 2014 August, Ft Huachuca, Sierra Vista AZ. We got dropped on our way back from class (around 1600) near all the other MI buildings, in full view. Concrete had to be cooked to 120 degrees and we held in the front leaning rest UP position for about 5 min. Felt like 30. Not as bad as most, but my hands, against the air, felt like 50 degrees cooler air than what it actually was for about an hour afterward.
But the absolute worst was at basic at Jackson around may or June. More than 3/4 of the company fucked up, and we ran, with full battle rattle, something similar to shuttle sprints for about 15 min. Anyone lagging behind would in turn feel the wrath of DS Hamilton's fury with more sprints. Can't remember the range we were at, but I never wanted to go back.
I think a soldier fell out with heat stroke from that little fandango

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jan 27 at 2016 12:56 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 12:56:22 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member That's easy. The Crossing the Line ceremony, aka Shellback ceremony. I daresay it's worse than anything anyone has suffered in boot...ever.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 1:06 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:06:50 -0500

My first smoking I got for outshining my TL. They way he set up our MMT was just plum stupid, but I did it anyway. I booked my happy arse to each new piece of cover, up the hill and to the objective, WAY ahead of him (and I was carrying more weight than he was). When the SL saw this, and asked the TL how this was possible, the TL called me over. I simply explained that a rush to cover is exactly that; a rush to COVER, not dash for a couple seconds and then lay down in an open field where you can get picked off by even a rookie marksman. The SL asked my opinion on the exercise as a whole, and how we performed. I wasn't going to lie. I gave him my honest opinion. I even gave a couple ideas to improve for the next time we ran through it. Skip ahead about an hour, and there was little PV2 Pietrantonio low-crawling all around our Company patrol base, stopping every hundred feet to do a set of 10 Burpees and then squat for 60 seconds. This went on for about 10 laps around the PB, and by then end of it, my entire body felt like jelly. However, my satisfaction was complete when the TL ran the exercise exactly the way I suggested it when we went back through it that night.

Response by SPC Stephen Gerard made Jan 27 at 2016 1:13 PM

SPC Stephen Gerard — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:13:16 -0500

I didn't score the run time that I had guaranteed to my team leader. The result was me doing "Joe-Joe the duck's," and donkey kicks by myself, with nobody around. I didn't have anyone to push me, I just had to do it myself. I had a feeling he was looking so I just kept going. I was already sore following the APFT, but the worst part was me being left to smoke myself. I hated that guy so much, and I think I still do.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Jan 27 at 2016 1:17 PM

PO2 Steven Erickson — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:17:07 -0500

Once, when a Boot Camp sister-company beat us in a academic test score, our two Company Commanders MASH-ed us ("Make A Sailor Hurt") in the following manner:
1. We donned all of our "outer clothing" on top of our dungarees (utility coat, pea coat, rain coat, watch cap).
2. The CC's turned the heat up in the barracks as high as they could make it go.
3. We did push-ups, sit-ups, jumping jacks and running in place in 10-minute increments with 2 minutes rest between each.
4. We did this routine for 90 minutes.

We realized that the CC's let us stop and open the windows when over half of us had puked - IN PLACE - or become immobile.

I did learn one thing. A crew that undergoes such suffering has only two options: become one crew incapable of giving up; or quit - as a whole unit - and resign itself to whatever punishment is coming.

We chose to suffer rather than quit. After that - for me - quitting or watching a shipmate quit was never an option. Came in REALLY HANDY at Nuclear Power School.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 1:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:26:47 -0500

NASCAR plus front back goes ; hydration formation

Response by SGT John Rauch made Jan 27 at 2016 1:27 PM

SGT John Rauch — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:27:43 -0500

Ft. Jackson. front lean rest on a hill full of fire ants.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 27 at 2016 1:53 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:53:01 -0500

It depends.

There is nothing wrong with an "Objective Lesson" to reinforce Corrective Modification of Behavior.

First we must ask ourselves:

1) Is this going to do anything? If yes continue to 2). If not, find a different method.
2) Will the troop find it so abhorrent that they will never want to do it again? If yes continue to 3). If not, find a different method.
3) Are you willing to be there with them the entire time? Not necessarily do it, but be there. Never put a subordinate through anything you wouldn't do. If yes continue to 4). If not find a different method.
4) Will it be challenging? This is essential. It has to be CHALLENGING. Not just tedious. Challenging promotes Growth. Tedious promotes Hatred & Fear.

As an example.

I had a young Marine who started showing up late. Not "a lot" late, but a little late. I needed to take corrective action. So I had him show up at the base of Recon Ridge in Horno with an E-Tool and a bucket at 0800 on Saturday morning. For those not familiar, Recon Ridge is a "Firebreak" that goes up the mountain outside the camp. It's about a mile to the top.

His task was to fill said bucket with the Etool and meet me at the top at 0830. Meet me at the appointed place and time with proper equipment. Basically it was a "Movement Exercise." Since it was only a mile, he had plenty of time. At 0830 we dumped his bucket and I told him to me at the base of the hill at 0900 with a full bucket. We did this all day, taking at break for chow. Up and down that hill we went. Dirt & bucket.

Never had a problem with him being late again. Nor anyone he worked with.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 1:59 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:59:14 -0500

Not creative but up downs (burpees) are the ones I hate the most.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 1:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 13:59:14 -0500

When I was stationed in Germany, we ran 5 miles out to the orchards by our 1SG. When we got there, we had to crab walk for seems like forever. Then a series of mountain climbers, front-back-go, bicycle kicks and several others. We then ran the 5 miles back. Good times I tell ya!

Response by MSgt Daniel Attilio made Jan 27 at 2016 2:14 PM

MSgt Daniel Attilio — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:14:30 -0500

For a while we had remedial humps on the weekends. If there was a pop on the urinalysis or DUI then it was a class (substance abuse) then a hump bright and early Saturday morning.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jan 27 at 2016 2:48 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:48:39 -0500

As the Originator of the "Magic Bullet", when you see Soldiers being smoked in FULL Dress Blues after a ceremony, in a volleyball pit, you're now entering a new realm of suck. BTW no you don't get to take them to CIF and exchange them. They get cleaned, they will be HIGHLY pressed and back on your ass for the next one. But as a well seasoned JE screw up, I wouldn't know anything about that.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 2:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 14:52:11 -0500

When I was an E3 at Hurlburt Field, there were brown concrete bricks lining the road at the back gate. My "extra duty" consisted of painting these rocks blue and then a couple of days later repainting them the original brown.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 27 at 2016 3:25 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:25:06 -0500

1975, while at Ft Devens the MP raided the Medics barracks and confiscated the weed, to teach us a lesson about the evils of weed the CO used the smoke session of forcing us to observe the burning of the weed, we all stood directly down wind. Great Training.

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Jan 27 at 2016 3:56 PM

LTJG Robert M. — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 15:56:12 -0500

Boot camp on government island, san francisco bay, marched down boat ramp into water in full work uniform

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:51 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:51:33 -0500

In basic one of the soldiers in my platoon fell asleep while in prone position during a security stop while marching to the M16 range, and the drill Sgt snatched his weapon. For the rest of the march we had to hold the weapon above our head and once we reached the range we did rifle pt.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 5:53 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:53:21 -0500

I think physical corrective training is appropriate in some situations. The worst corrective training I ever received was in Basic Training at Ft. Benning, GA. The Drill Sergeant locked the door, told us to put on all of our MOPP Gear, and made us run around the bay. Beyond being hot and sweaty inside the MOPP Gear I could never seem to get enough air through the filter to catch my breath. A close second is the 620 Jumping Jacks we did during RAP week.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 7:17 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:17:18 -0500

No because just imagine a PT stud who has no issue with pt. That soldier would have no issues being smoked its better to address the actual issue if a soldier failed his pt test hell why not smoke them they need to get better but if a soldier is late they need to report early

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Jan 27 at 2016 7:54 PM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 19:54:17 -0500

It all depends how you need to get your point across to the Soldier. If taking money and time away are enough I don't believe a "smoking" session would do the trick either.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 8:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 20:05:30 -0500

Mountain Climbers for 15 min. My DS got tired of that then did the electric chair forever(seemed like it anyway) holding 10lb free weight.

Response by SGT John " Mac " McConnell made Jan 27 at 2016 8:41 PM

SGT John " Mac " McConnell — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 20:41:20 -0500

Fort Lost in the Woods Misery. Drill sgt Kuwasaki said light em up for a minute.. So we did! After a minute he said put em out ! We where dumnfounded ! We did not put them out quick enough ! 150 mountain climbers with a full duffel on our backs.. Needless to say we started paying attention to detail...and quick too ! Laffs...

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made Jan 27 at 2016 10:15 PM

SFC Steven Harvey — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 22:15:03 -0500

I was tortured through basic and AIT, did really stupid things and had some things that happen that would be completely unacceptable these days.

When asked what should you not do over the weekend I replied "Don't F up", that was in 2000 and I went back to basic for 3 months in the barracks. 1 book, no civilian clothes, no tv, no games, only army linens with basic training standards, etc.

Someone said I was speeding (60mph) up the hill going towards Cambri Fristch Kaserne in Germany (it's a long steep hill) in an old SEN Van. Was put on the 1SG "that guy list" for 2 months. Mind you it was impossible to go over 30 in that vehicle and the speed limit was 35 but whatever.

Someone stole my linen when I got to AIT after having it all of 2 minutes. I was sitting on a wall for 3 hours. Other things from AIT was bear crawling around the barracks with the water running for hours on end for deciding to get sunburned (destruction of government property)

Filled thousands of sand bags for taking 3 off a pallete that was for a field grades trailer in Iraq.

Wore an old wall clock around my neck while posting guard after being late in Iraq for a week.

Man I've had it all happen it seems like and I wouldn't take it back for anything. I love the Army, can't believe what the kids these days complain about.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2016 10:28 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Jan 2016 22:28:29 -0500

Absolutely! It makes the soldier learn to not make the same mistake in the future. Much more effective in my opinion then paper work where it can effect the soldier's career in the future. Though it all depends on how grave the soldier's mistake is. But hands down it would be mountain climbers until you reach "(NCO's name) mountain".

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jan 28 at 2016 11:39 AM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:39:18 -0500

Whatever works. Everyone can be different. Just do not waste my time. My time is valuable.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 12:48 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 12:48:43 -0500

In ESL they use to have English drill if they find out you were using other language that was not English... before light out you need it to do 2m push up and site up to pass a APFT, after you tell you battle body (how was violating the rules with you) a report of what you did all day long, and then he report to you, go to sleep and 1h. later all over again, 1h later all over again, and again, until morning...

Response by SPC Brian Bay made Jan 29 at 2016 4:19 AM

SPC Brian Bay — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 04:19:07 -0500

Pretty much all smoke sessions sucked. There were a few it was like a big 'fuck you' and we just went through the motions without caring at all. To me all it said from the leadership was, "I have a bigger paycheck and I need to flex my authoritative muscle in your face simply because I can." (and I'm too lazy to look into which individual(s) actually fucked up)

"Camaraderie, Esprit de Corps, Teamwork" were tems that I heard loosely thrown around yet, I often felt like Calvin from Calvin & Hobbes when his dad would call things, "Building character".

Rifle PT sucked, log drills...even more, grass drills/front-back-go just made me dizzy and stained my clothes (not much training value there), but one of the ones that I hated was called "the monkey fucker" (hold your hand like you're going to choke someone then use that hand position to reach your left hand between your legs and grab your left ankle, same with right hand/ankle, bent over at the waist, then begin squats...basically flexing your knees while holding your ankles. Also referred to as the "Modified Army-Appreciation-Stretch-Standing"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 11:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 11:41:45 -0500

One of the Worse "Smoke" Session i seen. If the soldier have a Mess in there rooms, they dress in FBR (Full Gear) report, high crawl to there room cleaned and come back (crawling) after is clean to the unit so the PSGT can inspect there room, if they were not up to standard the PSGT leave and he need to go back to get it... the Barracks and the units use to be about 1000 m. apart....

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 29 at 2016 6:31 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:31:19 -0500

Time taken from me.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 8:09 PM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 20:09:08 -0500

Honestly I wish the Air Force used pt(ie. push ups, flutter kicks, or whatever else) before going straight to paperwork especially for smaller infractions as I think that this could help correct the issues without tainting a career. However I have seen first hand that any form of this is so prohibited that the person I saw instructing someone who was being disrespectful to do push ups get in trouble....

Response by SFC Terry Murphy made Jan 29 at 2016 9:32 PM

SFC Terry Murphy — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 21:32:59 -0500

I always enjoyed using the "Electric Chair" on soldiers that needed corrective training! Low crawling around a soccer field (in Panama) after 1300 formation sucked the most when I had to do it!

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jan 29 at 2016 9:37 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 21:37:58 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Rendering a hand salute to myself in front of a door w/ a reflective glass window!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 12:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 12:44:03 -0500

with me the first time I heard it I literally slapped myself in the face or 'beat your face' private,'but Drill sgt, I'm a specialist' A specialist? What make you so special, specialist? You a special kind of stupid? Stop slappin yourself and give me 20, no make that 40, no, do em til I"M tired.' That was Day ONE, MINUTE TWO of Basic at Fort Jackson...the other one, let's see, you go from standing, to where you look like a frog on all 4s, throw your legs back, return to 'frog' position, then pop back up standing, then repeat...x 100...omg they LOVED to smoke me, 'hey mr. bigmouth, time to smoke..' Sgt, I don't smoke' "oh really, you gonna burn now private..' 'but sarge, I'm a specialist' (see above.) heh heh.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Jan 30 at 2016 12:48 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Sat, 30 Jan 2016 12:48:55 -0500

Heck yeah it's ok that's what makes the military so unique! The two best smoke sessions I got came by the way of Zero days in AirAssault and Warrant Officer Candidate schools. That rubber ducky M16 will break a lot of grown tough men down. I also issued out a few as an NCO back in the days. Good times!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 3:31 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 03:31:33 -0500

maybe exclusive to the Sapper Community but little girl in the woods...worst thing ever!!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2016 9:18 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Feb 2016 09:18:54 -0500

My favorites were in 2012 Basic, we had 3 airmen in 2 different elements that absolutely could not fold and store their duffels properly in the wall locker. Our substitute MTI decided it was because they weren't "worn in" enough yet. His solution was for us to pack up every issued piece of clothing we had thus far, blues included, pack them nice and tight and rolled into our duffels, then proceeded to go on a nice ruck run from our 2nd floor main ECP, around the squadron, and back up into our 2nd floor fire exit, making a nice, long, unbroken chain of 80lb ruck runners and misery. After 3 or 4 hours, the duffels were forever impeccable.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2016 1:42 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 13:42:20 -0400

looking for the dead sand flie and then bury him

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Mar 9 at 2018 10:42 PM

MSG Louis Alexander — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 22:42:04 -0500

What ever happen to creativity? NCO’s are normally creative in their “Corrective Training”. It didn’t affect me one way or the other to have troops either “Duck Walk” up and down the company street or get in the Dying Cockroach position until everyone was physically wasted. Rest assured slackers would no longer be slackers due to peer pressure.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 10 at 2018 12:52 AM

CSM Charles Hayden — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 00:52:21 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Did you copy: SSG Warren Swan was always in the wrong place, at the wrong time and in the wrong uniform w/o his prescribed equipment ?

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 10 at 2018 9:38 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 09:38:35 -0500

I can only appreciate corrective training only if I can control or influence the people who caused it. That is what you can call peer pressure. It happens a lot in an MP line unit where soldiers have to pull more duty according to a schedule because others are not fully capable even though they are in a slot which requires them pull the same duty as everyone else. When I tell soldiers they are working more than they should because others are not qualified for what ever reason they sort of become infuriated.

Response by SGT Jamarl Jones made Mar 10 at 2018 10:56 AM

SGT Jamarl Jones — Sat, 10 Mar 2018 10:56:31 -0500

It's an entertaining way to create overuse injuries, but that's about it.