Is it legal for the commander to make us pay for emergency leave out of pocket?

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 17:11:38 -0500

We are stationed in Germany and decided to have our baby in Texas. We knew that we would have to pay for everything out of pocket, and had no issue with that. I went back to Texas in July, and my due date was August 26th. My husband took regular leave that was supposed to start on August 22nd so he would be there in time for my due date. On August 8th, I went in for a blood pressure check (I had gestational hypertension and preeclampsia that was misdiagnosed by the hospital in Germany, and didn’t find out until I got to the states) and my doctor tells me to start a Red Cross message because she was going to induce me and she was not going to let me go full term because of my blood pressure and the baby’s heart rate. So we do that, and the emergency leave gets approved by my husbands commander. While they were setting up the flights and about to use CBA to pay for it because my husbands GTCC was not set up yet, his commander made them stop the process. Instead, he told us that we have to pay for it out of pocket and did not give a reason as to why. We had already paid for his original flight on the 22nd out of pocket (once again, not an issue since we knew we would have to). But when my husband tried to get that original flight switched, SATO told us that he couldn’t do that and would have to book a whole new flight. We could not afford buying a second flight, so his commander made us take out an AER loan.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago, we found out that there is a memorandum stating that the army pays for emergency leave flights, once the leave is approved by the commander. The commander gave a quick answer when he spoke to my husband today, while he was asking for a meeting, of “thats why we have a hospital here. Y’all didn’t have to go to Texas to have your son.” But in my opinion, the army has no say on where we chose to have our child. We knew we would have to pay for all expenses out of pocket, and had no issue with it. But then a medical emergency popped up, and the situation changed. My husband and I are setting up a meeting next week with the commander to get a larger explanation as to why he made my husband cancel the CBA and made us pay for it out of pocket. Paying back the AER loan has caused a financial hardship on us that it will take us a while to dig out of. My questions are, are we justified in wanting a larger explanation? Is there anything we are missing as to why the commander denied the use of a CBA? Is there a way we could get reimbursed for what we payed out of pocket? If his commander denies us an explanation, or refuses to help us get reimbursed (if that’s even possible) would we be justified in filing an IG complaint?

Response by SGT Richard Garza made Feb 7 at 2020 5:13 PM

SGT Richard Garza — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 17:13:15 -0500

Unbelievable

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 5:15 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 17:15:44 -0500

Hope you and your baby are safe and healthy. I’d move on and not poke the bear. You may feel you are owed an explanation and soon find out that you have been selected at random for a tasking to A-Stan.

Response by SGT Richard Garza made Feb 7 at 2020 5:18 PM

SGT Richard Garza — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 17:18:28 -0500

Take your receipt and submit for reimbursement. If your commander refuses to sign off approving the request, submit a Congress inquiry. Enlisted men and woman shouldn't be put through hardship while serving this great country. Good luck.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Feb 7 at 2020 6:03 PM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:03:02 -0500

SATO also did you a disservice in my opinion. The airlines can be helpful when approached with emergency situations; I was successful in negotiating flight changes for people a number of times as long as they had emergency leave orders in hand.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Feb 7 at 2020 6:56 PM

SPC Stewart Smith — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 18:56:57 -0500

Smells like bull shit to me. I'd request a meeting. I'd request an explanation. I'd request a meeting with the IG if you don't get reimbursed. Write your congressman as well.
Also, I'd like to point out that I'm a civilian now and was only a specialist with no experience in this situation. I hope everything goes well. You deserve that reimbursement.
Congrats on the baby :D

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 8:19 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:19:36 -0500

I’ll explain this as being a previous company level commander for 2 years. The company commander who granted your husband the E-leave was wrong. As I am sentimental to the situation y’all were in; but at the end of the day it’s the Commanders Program and he can deny or approve said emergency leave. Was it his Company Commander or Battalion Commander. This is important because only an 05 or higher commander can approve “emergency leave” his Company Commander could have granted him regular leave in the case of an emergency. Words mean things in Army Regulations. You can file an IG complaint or a congressional, but I’m not sure what that will do in the long run for results. Looking to AR 600-8-10. Hope the baby and Family is well! Not all units or Commanders are the same, remember that in talks Army career.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2020 8:57 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 20:57:52 -0500

So there are a couple things you need to consider. You, as a service member are able to seek medical treatment at any military medical facility while on leave in a different location.

Because you decided not to have the child in Germany, where your OBGYN and PCM is located at, you assumed the responsibility of you healthcare at your leave location.

You are correct that the army will pay for flights for emergency leave from OCONUS to CONUS, but your situation does not qualify as a Red Cross message per AR 930-5 because you declined care at your assigned medical care facility.

The commander is not wrong because as a service member, you are not authorized under AR 930-5 to be an individual covered by a Red Cross Message. You were on leave in a location other than your duty station. You were deemed medically required to remain at your leave location placing you into a convalescent leave status, which needed approval by your commander to be in a location other than your assigned location.

Short answer, when you knowingly denied medical care from your assigned location, you waived your right to reimbursement.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Feb 7 at 2020 10:03 PM

MSG Gary Eckert — Fri, 07 Feb 2020 22:03:06 -0500

Although Commander’s have latitude in approving emergency leave the regulation covering emergency leaves directs Commander’s to consider ordinary leave for pregnancies including pregnancies with complications unless a life threatening condition exists in which case emergency leave should be approved. Unless the attending physician said the complications were life threatening as a personnel sergeant my recommendation would have been ordinary leave. I think if you did file an IG complaint or a congressional inquiry the result would be the Commander was within his authority to approve ordinary leave.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Feb 8 at 2020 8:08 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 08:08:11 -0500

Remember that the IG's job is to see if DOD and Army policy and regulations were followed. I looked through the reg's to see if I could find some clarification on your situation and it's really on that borderline area. The Reimbursement may have been flagged by the Finance Officer and/or JAG since when I was in emergency leave travel was unit funded. I would wait to see what the commanders explanation for the situation before I stepped it up the line.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2020 9:05 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 09:05:56 -0500

The commander does not have access to funds to pay for off duty travel. However, Army Emergency Relief will give you a no interest loan to help pay for emergency travel for immediate family, they may even make it a grant which means you wouldnt pay it back at all.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 8 at 2020 2:16 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 08 Feb 2020 14:16:41 -0500

If I was you, I would go the Finance Travel section to ask about Emergency Leave before speaking to the commander.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Feb 9 at 2020 10:55 AM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 10:55:51 -0500

Just my thoughts, I believe since her husband did not have his GTC. He started the problem himself.

Response by 1SG Charles Hunter made Feb 9 at 2020 7:38 PM

1SG Charles Hunter — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 19:38:41 -0500

Okay, I've been out a long time (retired in '91), but this is what I remember from my time in:
A service member with approved emergency leave is entitled to space required travel from the overseas duty station to the CONUS port of entry. All travel within CONUS is at the member's expense. Same arrangement for return to unit. CBA?

Response by SPC Nicholas V. made Feb 11 at 2020 4:38 PM

SPC Nicholas V. — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 16:38:04 -0500

You should first discuss it with your CSM and chain of command to see if anything internal can be worked out. If not, you can go to IG for assistance to see what can be done to help you. If that is a fail, your congressional representative is also there to help you as a last effort.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Feb 11 at 2020 4:50 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 16:50:39 -0500

From what I always understood "free" travel for emergency leave is a courtesy not a mandatory requirement and depends entirely on space available flights. In almost every case I remember ( decades ago) the command's involvement was simply approving the leave and putting the service member in touch with the red cross or other organization that would loan the service member money ( to be paid back via allotment) for a travel ticket.

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Feb 11 at 2020 5:28 PM

1SG Jack Crutcher — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:28:09 -0500

Maybe I misread or the army has changed but I don't understand the commanders involvement with the AER. Every year soldiers donates millions of dollars to the AER for emergencies so why was the commander involved. This is why a lot of soldiers decline to donate. Again I may be out of touch and could be wrong.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2020 5:49 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 17:49:37 -0500

I am not Army, but have dealt with "emergency" leave several times in the Navy as an XO and CO, but I would always go back to the guiding document, which I think is AR600-8-10 Chapter 6 for you guys. That might provide some answers to what is authorized from a financial aspect, etc. It may also provide you some ammunition before going into the Commander's office with guns ablazing. I would also check if there are any local instructions for your base/command on emergency leave. I know some commands are not authorized to use CBA (again from the Navy perspective) due to the color of money being used. I have a feeling you will probably not be reimbursed and I'm not sure an IG would get you the results you are looking for. I wish you the best of luck and sorry you didn't get a sufficient explanation by the commander to help you guys out.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 11 at 2020 7:14 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:14:39 -0500

A) as far as I can tell, this was NOT emergency leave. It was ordinary leave under emergency conditions.*
B) Regardless of the conditions, this was still personal travel, not official travel. Therefore the use of a GTC or CBA would have been inappropriate.*
C) Space-A travel WOULD have been appropriate, and could have been utilized at no cost to the Soldier.... Provided an appropriate flight could be found.
D) SATO screwed you over, but I do not think you have a legal recourse with them at this point.*
E) To sum up everything, ever... You will find that what a Commander can legally do is.... Well, a very wide range of things.* To include refusing to pay for personal travel of a SM in their Command.
F) You said that you knew you would have to pay for things yourself. Now you are upset that... You had to pay for things yourself.

*I am not a lawyer, nor an IG, nor even a Soldier anymore (retired). So take it for what it is worth.

Response by MAJ Geiter Dunn made Feb 11 at 2020 7:39 PM

MAJ Geiter Dunn — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 19:39:05 -0500

Forgery JAG, it doesn't seem like anything done by anyone was illegal. You can try the IG, but bring everything (orders, emergency orders, plane tickets used and unused, doctors statement about emergency delivery, and anything from SATO or the CDR). And expect some hard questioning by the IG. Maybe it was for the sake of editing, but a lot of what you've said happened doesn't pass the smell test.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2020 8:59 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 20:59:04 -0500

Review the regulation, ensure you are interpreting it correctly, gather your documentation, including the date that the commander authorized the leave, and then obtain an IG Assistance Request form. Fill it out with the 5 Ws (Who, What, Where, When, Why) and note which regulation (cite chapter & verse) was violated. State only the facts and request the outcome you want, or how IG can make it right for you. Do not get personal and stay professional. If the investigating officer is fair & impartial, and motivated to help, then you may get some relief. If the IG route does not work for whatever reason, go see the Staff Judge Advocate and see what legal remedies there are.

Usually, when commanders see that you are serious, and willing to go the distance, they will back down (while still declaring victory) and quietly give you what you need.

Good Luck!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2020 11:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 12 Feb 2020 23:13:03 -0500

You are right that you are entitled to a flight home for emergency leave, but that's emergency leave for immediate relatives to their residence. Your residence is was in Germany and you had command sponsorship approved. You chose to increase the burden to the system instead of utilizing the resources already dedicated for you. By going outside the available resources you incurred the obligation of any additional costs associated with the baby. Hopefully you arranged ahead of time with Tricare to have the baby stateside or you would be liable for that as well.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 13 at 2020 6:33 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 13 Feb 2020 06:33:57 -0500

If the Company commander is the problem and your husband has had an audience with him or her, then it is the Battalion COC you should be speaking with. While it is not the Army who pays for emergency leave, it is covered by AER and others. You can also speak to a chaplain who too has discretion in some areas. None the less, use the COC before the IG. The IG is attached to a General Officer, and this should be resolved well below. See the next level.

Response by LCpl Mike Niemeyer made Feb 16 at 2020 9:52 AM

LCpl Mike Niemeyer — Sun, 16 Feb 2020 09:52:30 -0500

If it was a Red Cross message the command or Red Cross should help with the flight, in thr Corps we got a red cross and it was not more than 2 hours later the kid had his flight path and times. So I think your commander was just being an arse cause he did not like where your child was born or had an issue with your family.

Response by SP5 Ann Parris made Feb 17 at 2020 7:14 PM

SP5 Ann Parris — Mon, 17 Feb 2020 19:14:34 -0500

The DoD regulations state that the GTCC/CBA is available for use when the leave is government funded. I couldn't find if emergency leave is included. Years ago I had to pay for my emergency leave from Europe to Texas when my mother died. I think what needs to be decided is if emergency leave from OCONUS is considered government funded.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2020 12:29 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 12:29:23 -0500

Go to JAG. End of story next time you sit down with your commander have legal representation. I had a baby while overseas and chose to pay out of pocket because they allowed me to take personal leave of 10 days and give me my paternity leave after my deployment.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Feb 25 at 2020 12:30 AM

PO2 David Allender — Tue, 25 Feb 2020 00:30:46 -0500

You caused the problem in wanting to have the delivery in Texas, instead of in Germany. When I was in the Navy, an emergency came up with my mother. My shipmates gave money out of their pockets to provide me with airfare stateside, but I had to get airfare out of Nam. That is how I found out about camaraderie while in the service. You won't have that outside of the service though. I know that time changes many things, and apparently the same applies to in service. I wish you and your new baby a happy life together.

Response by Sgt Mark F Jindrick made Mar 2 at 2020 1:38 AM

Sgt Mark F Jindrick — Mon, 02 Mar 2020 01:38:23 -0500

In as much as I've been out for a l o n g time I would take issue with the misdiagnosis done by the facility hospital...both can in fact be deadly to the mother and baby...otherwise the doctor would not have insisted on inducing...but this may fubar your careers if this is filed as a complaint...your choice.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Feb 5 at 2022 12:54 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sat, 05 Feb 2022 12:54:43 -0500

I thought the Red Cross took the lead with emergency travel situations.

Response by SFC David Johnson made Feb 5 at 2022 3:41 PM

SFC David Johnson — Sat, 05 Feb 2022 15:41:07 -0500

I’m going to say it…. After reading a lot of the comments and seeing the rebuttals the spouse wrote, the family flew to the states voluntarily and had to pay the expenses. More than one time I read the spouse say, “flying back at their expense put them in a financial bind”. How were they planning on paying the fathers (soldier) trip home to attend the birth it the Emergency had not had happened? How are they planning on bringing the whole family back to Germany? There are a lot of questions that seem to need answered. IMO

Response by PO1 Randy Horelica made Feb 5 at 2022 8:23 PM

PO1 Randy Horelica — Sat, 05 Feb 2022 20:23:05 -0500

When someone takes Emergency leave the red cross, navy relief may assist in cash grants or gifts. Emergency leave doesn't entitle anyone for an all expenses paid trip.