Is it just Army Officers that lie? How do we correct this perception?

2015-02-20T05:48:46-05:00

The U.S. Army War College published the following study that Army Officers lie, evade, and practice deception.
Is it just Army Officers or is it every branch and all leaders?
How do we ultimately fix the perception that we are a bunch of liars who don't care about anything else.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/02/19/politics/army-ethics-lying-report/

Army officers routinely lie and deceive, study finds - CNNPolitics.com

U.S. Army officers often resort to "evasion and deception," and everyone at the Pentagon knows it, according to a new study conducted by the U.S. Army War College.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2015 5:59 AM

2015-02-20T05:59:36-05:00

Yes, It's clearly only the Army!

(Click for satirical links)

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2015 6:35 AM

2015-02-20T06:35:13-05:00

I posted the study on another thread here on RP. Another Major did a pretty good analysis on it about statistics and other things but the one point he made was a pretty good one.

The "ethical fading" as they call it in the study talks mostly about "small things" that officers lie or cover the truth. The study gives the example of a commander signing off that all his/her Soldiers are proficient in CBRN tasks in order to deploy. Did the commander just check the box on the checklist or did the entire unit conduct the proper tasks? Was there enough time to get to CBRN or was weapon qualification more important? Prioritized was used as an examples of why a commander would say the unit was good to go on training that wasn't actually completed.

Do I agree with it? There are a lot of things going on daily in an Army unit and there is always something that needs to be done ASAP. It's 1500 on Friday and you get a call from brigade that says your entire battalion needs to complete this online training because the deadline is Monday. The division CSM sys that your NCOs need to do "Army Strong" training for 10-15 minutes every morning after PRT. You are deployed and your brigade requires a storyboard for every patrol that goes out the wire, do you use the same storyboard on the same exact patrol you did last week and the week before because there is NSTR? There are a million things that "need" to be done but only so much time in the day to accomplish them all.

I think lying is a strong word and the media has done a good job of inserting their sound bites to make it more "potent". With that said, I am sure there are leaders out there who make extremely poor ethical decisions and probably blatantly lie all the time and those are the ones that we label toxic.

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made Feb 20 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-02-20T08:49:59-05:00

I must agree with SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas. At some point everyone lies. Just to be clear, if what you say or write is not the truth it is a lie, if you omit the truth that can also be a lie . That being said is the lie CYA or is it for "good" i.e. "No dear that dress does not make you look fat." We all lie but the lies that affect us most are FIT REP reports, EPRS (are they still called that?), Unit Readiness reports, etc you get my drift. These lies are usually found out and are what makes us look bad in eyes of the public. The public wants/expects the military to be honorable and therefore, for good or bad, holds us to a higher standard.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Feb 20 at 2015 9:33 AM

2015-02-20T09:33:46-05:00

I love the way the War College says that responding to requirements is based on deceit and deception, and not that a Commander is simply trying to come up with creative ways to deal with 600 days of training requirements in 365 days.

The Pentagon has been dreaming up so much "good idea" training that really has nothing to do with Soldiering that we really need to put a stop to.

I have recently been exposed to some really good Senior Officers who are saying enough is enough and reporting back that certain training wasn't done because of lack of time and that they will assume the risk.

Perhaps we chapter out tons of Soldiers from the Reserves because instead of driving a truck for the past 6 months they've been parked in a conference room taking a three finger mitten safety powerpoint class, assigned by an officer at the Pentagon who hasn't worn them in so long he/she doesn't realize they aren't even issued anymore.

I find this study distasteful.