Is it Fraternization if the individuals involved are not dating, but are blood relatives?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:56:28 -0400

I've seen a lot of discussion regarding dating between different ranks with respect to fraternization policies. What about family members? SSG Robert Burns posted about an AIT soldier whose PSG threatened action because she hung out with her MAJ father.....

So what would you think about (for example), then SGT Walker hanging out with SPC Braddock or SPC Ramos, his cousins?

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 28 at 2016 3:59 PM

PO1 John Miller — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 15:59:19 -0400

From what I remember on the Navy's fraternization policy, no it is not. Proper military bearing must be observed of course, but there is a stipulation for when you are related to another service member.

I don't think being cousins would count, but a parent/child relationship is definitely NOT fraternization.

Response by SSG Stephan Pendarvis made Jul 28 at 2016 4:00 PM

SSG Stephan Pendarvis — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:00:50 -0400

hmmm Good one. If the military wanted you to have relatives...they would have issued them to you...lol!!
But seriously...there is work and there is play. As long as people know which is which...I don't see a problem. But I imagine there are hundreds of scenarios that everyone can come up with. People will look out naturally for family members more so than other military members...so am not to piss off others relatives and such.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 28 at 2016 4:05 PM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:05:06 -0400

I know brothers who are in the same squad; one is the squad leader and the other is his senior team leader. I'm sure they have a closer relationship than that between most team leaders and squad leaders, and I don't think anyone would find it inappropriate.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2016 4:23 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:23:15 -0400

Sir - this really falls into the interpretation field. I personally would not have an issue with it. My niece was in the Army a few years back and I am certain if we hung out people would think fraternization but once they found out we were related they dismissed it.

I will say we do have some leaders out there that would not even think about dismissing it and they would press the issue. I think as long as they kept it professional and didn't cross a line there should be no issues.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Jul 28 at 2016 4:47 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:47:28 -0400

I can semi-understand the rules against fraternization but it was extremely common when I was in and I never saw it cause any trouble. Of course dating was never involved because we had no women so it mainly involved hanging out, drinking beer etc. As long as everyone acts mature and uses common sense I don't see a problem.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 28 at 2016 5:19 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 17:19:58 -0400

Family is not fraternization, IMHO.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Jul 28 at 2016 6:20 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Thu, 28 Jul 2016 18:20:52 -0400

If one is not in chain of command and cannot influence the others military career. Then I say leave it alone. It is when ones relative is too close to the COC that things go wrong.

Was in the same company as a guy whose uncle was the SMA when I was stationed at Drum. They would have dinner or whatever after duty hours and meet off post. Soldier was treated just like everyone else. Most didn't even know it was his uncle.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2016 9:46 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jul 2016 21:46:34 -0400

People need to mind their own business. I have cousins a Major and Pilot and the other a LTC and commander of a Bomber Wing. My dad hung around this Colonel in their retirement community. We had cancer, besides and his wife, he cared about my father and they kidded around. When siblings and mother said he talked too much about himself. I reminded them of how much he visited dad and I will always respect that. CW3 Private RallyPoint Member LTC Stephen C.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Jul 30 at 2016 2:20 AM

SGM Joel Cook — Sat, 30 Jul 2016 02:20:04 -0400

I will give you a sticky example of an instance where it became an issue in one of my units. I had a CPL in my S3 shop whose mother was a full bird Colonel in the Medical BDE. She was about 27, unmarried and she had a room in the barracks but she pretty much still lived with her mother. Every time we got ready to go to the field she would show up with a no field duty profile or an emergency leave for the death of a loved one with Red Cross notification. It took me about six months to figure out that something was fishy with this CPL never going to the field. I took my suspicions to my Major who was aware her mother was a Colonel while I was unaware. I told the Major I was going to build a case for dereliction of duty and malingering on this CPL. She advised me to say nothing to anyone and keep it on the quiet. So our next deployment she shows up again with a Red Cross emergency leave request for the death of her grandmother. I had been keeping every copy of every profile and leave request she had. When I looked through her records she had already taken an emergency leave on the death of that grandmother 18 months earlier. I made copies of her whole packet and took them home with me. The next day I brought the evidence to my Major and she asked to keep and look at the file. Two days later I asked my Major how to proceed and she said either she had lost the folder or someone had stole it off her desk. What a coincidence huh. I told my major I thought I could find a copy at the company 1SGs office. Which I did and gave that to my Major asking her to secure it better. The next day it also disappeared from her desk. At that point I was very upset and told my Major I wanted to use the BN CDR's open door policy to address this problem. She got pissed and made vague threats. That just about sent me through the roof so I went straight to my BN SGMs office and aired the whole thing with first him, then the BN CDR. The next Monday I had Field Grade Art 15 charges on the CPL for lying, forging documents and a few other things. I suspect The CPL's mother and my Major were friends and my Major was trying to protect the CPL. I guess it all turned out well in the end. I would say this was more undue officer influence rather than fraternization, but it still had bad outcome and God only knows how long that CPL had been pulling the wool over other peoples eyes before I showed up.

Response by MAJ Christoph Himmelsbach made Aug 2 at 2016 8:59 AM

MAJ Christoph Himmelsbach — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 08:59:29 -0400

It is best to read the regulation. While it will not give examples of every situation you may encounter, it does qualify what is actually fraternization by what effect is has on the organization.
I have been the investigating officer for fraternization cases, and it often surprised people what is actually punishable fraternization, and what isn't. The accusers are often overstating what is fraternization, and the subject is often under estimating what is fraternization.
Needless to say, in these investigations, more times that not, one of the recommended actions is organizational re-training of fraternization policies and regulations.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 9:04 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 09:04:56 -0400

2 things here are at question here, the first is does this relationship go against good order and discipline? If the answer is no (They are not in the same unit and the father cannot influence promotion, duty assignment or job placement) then the command needs to leave it alone. The second question is, what does it state in the regulation regarding Fraternization? Does it specifically discuss the family relationship, Mother/Father is an Officer/Enlisted and the child is the opposite, or does it not take that into account?

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Aug 2 at 2016 9:17 AM

Maj Walter Kilar — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 09:17:19 -0400

I know there is a joint definition of fraternization, but in the Air Force I have only seen UCMJ Article 134 charges brought up against officers who fraternize with enlisted. I have heard of NJP Article 15 charges against enlisted where fraternization was one of the lesser offenses, usually with failure to obey orders being the primary charge, but not enough for an Article 92 in court martial.

The joint regulation definition could encompass enlisted to enlisted "inappropriate relationships detrimental to good order and discipline", but in the example case between a SGT and cousin SPC, I would expect command to listen to the evidence and give a verbal caution to the SGT about perception and to minimize interaction during duty hours in uniform. The burden of proof would be on an accuser to show that a SGT is giving preferential treatment to the SPC.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 12:08 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 12:08:03 -0400

One of the things to keep in mind with the point of SSG Burns is that he was talking about AIT. AIT is a very different world than normally seen in the military. I remember when I was in school house as both an LT and CPT and was told that if I saw a Soldier on the side of the road, regardless of the weather conditions, I was not to pick them up. Even if it is a complete downpour, if they are there walking, do NOT get them because they are in AIT. Any other installation I would stop and grab them in poor weather, but because of the AIT, it was prohibited. So the AIT Soldier hanging out with her father could be an issue solely because of the AIT aspect, NOT strictly for the fraternization aspect.
On the other hand, as well posted throughout, the key here is maintaining good order and discipline. If they are hanging out in a non military based function, the fact that they are blood relatives should alleviate a lot of the issues that are normally associated with fraternization. But every situation is different, and should be looked at individually.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 8:33 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 20:33:48 -0400

If they are blood related it is not fraternization, especially if it is their father. If two soldiers are married and one gets promoted they are not forced to get a divorce. So long as they are not in a position where there is a conflict of interest there is no problem

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 9:03 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Aug 2016 21:03:57 -0400

Family is family, get a life. Theres more important things to worry about

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 1:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 13:19:36 -0400

You see a lot of relatives in the same unit in the National Guard. It sometimes becomes an issue but more often than not, it isn't a problem. The oddest "relationship" I've had was My squad leader in the Guard worked for me in our civilian job. It never caused a problem in either situation. It all boils down to the professionalism of the ones involved.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Reese made Aug 3 at 2016 1:28 PM

SPC Jeffrey Reese — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 13:28:47 -0400

I would think it would be the same as it should be every where professionalism should take care of the issue. I have been a supervisor for 15 years and have had family and friends working for me at different times. At work they are my employees off work they are Family and friends. If they try to pull the Family or friend card at work you let them know you don't pay people to be family or friends. If they are true friends they won't try to pull the friend card at work and Family should know better period. It is your Fault if they try it more than once!!

Response by SFC Patrick Mahan made Aug 3 at 2016 3:32 PM

SFC Patrick Mahan — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 15:32:54 -0400

he was an AIT soldier he shouldn't . the rest can as long as around other military discretion is observed

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 9:13 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Aug 2016 21:13:30 -0400

I think it would only be an issue if the personnel involved allowed it to become one. If I had a younger cousin that enlisted and we were stationed in the same location, of course I would have them over to my house. If it's family, then it should not be difficult for the seniorof the two to explain that while I might enjoy your company, don't ever get our association confused in a professional environment.

Response by SPC Corie Davis made Aug 5 at 2016 10:46 AM

SPC Corie Davis — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 10:46:19 -0400

Blood is blood at the end of the day. As Soldiers it should not be about who our parents or spouses are me and my husband where dual military I hate to say I got certain privileges because of his rank such as roles in leadership. I honestly didn't think it was fair I wanted to earn it. Unfortunately people do tend to favorite the ones whose parents are high ranks or whose spouses are high ranks.

Response by PFC Danielle Fulmer made Aug 5 at 2016 2:23 PM

PFC Danielle Fulmer — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 14:23:55 -0400

I think that as long as there is no conflict of interest it should be no issue. Once there is a conflict however then it needs to be addressed and handled properly.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2016 4:39 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Aug 2016 16:39:17 -0400

From my understanding of army regulation, immediate family members such as brothers/sisters and parents are not restricted by this policy, however one is required to give respects as deserved (i.e. Salute, attention, parade rest, etc...) due to the nature of rank during duty hours. As far as off duty hours, it's looked down upon for the officer and enlisted to drink together or whatever due to rank, but no one really makes a big stink about it when they know they are family members. but other off duty activists such as dinner are not restricted at all from what I know.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2016 9:12 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 21:12:16 -0400

Family comes before the army so when it comes to family, rank shouldn't matter. It's best to spend time with someone who has been through your current situation to help them get through.

Response by SSgt Katie Herringshaw made Aug 6 at 2016 9:18 PM

SSgt Katie Herringshaw — Sat, 06 Aug 2016 21:18:17 -0400

How is it fraternization if they are family? As long as respect is paid to rank, position and standards.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2016 2:43 AM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 02:43:13 -0400

Not unless there was unfair treatment in the sense of career advancement, awards, and duties. I suggest remaining strictly professional while in uniform.

Response by SSgt Banditt Raccoon made Aug 7 at 2016 4:47 PM

SSgt Banditt Raccoon — Sun, 07 Aug 2016 16:47:50 -0400

This is such a rare situation (most often seen in guard or reserves units) that higher ups won't give it a second thought. Too small to be worth their time. If they did address it they will tag it with "family is too important to separate" and move on.

Response by SPC Phillip Holibaugh made Aug 8 at 2016 5:26 PM

SPC Phillip Holibaugh — Mon, 08 Aug 2016 17:26:06 -0400

I don't think there is anything wrong unless it interferes with training, I believe I read "AIT" soldier?

Response by CSM Michael Sweeney made Aug 8 at 2016 8:05 PM

CSM Michael Sweeney — Mon, 08 Aug 2016 20:05:30 -0400

The senior officer or NCO in any situation where they provide special favor or advantage that they do not provide that junior members peers is guilty of Fraternization. Doesn't matter if they are blood related of not. Doesn't matter if they are dating or married. Anytime there is that unequal treatment due to "who you know, not what you know", is bad for good order and discipline. My wife and I were married for 4 years when she joined the Army herself. Turned out we were even assigned to the same section as instructors. I was not in her rating chain, but she was a SPC and I was a SSG. We were able to keep our working relationship totally professional. We were on a first name basis even out of earshot of the AIT students..... mine was Sergeant and hers was also Sergeant (she was an acting SGT as an instructor). On the other hand, I have seen terrible loss of unit discipline where the chain of command was too lax and lost control with members of their units dating or letting higher ranking family members from other units influence treatment of unit members. Long answer, I know, but blood or romantic involvement is not the defining factor of Fraternization. How soldiers see favorable treatment of their peers because of the influence of a higher ranking NCO or Officer is.

Response by SN Kristy Conaway made Aug 9 at 2016 2:21 AM

SN Kristy Conaway — Tue, 09 Aug 2016 02:21:05 -0400

How could it be construed as fraternization if you're related by blood? Are you supposed to stop being a family because you work on the same base? Most commands don't allow family in direct line chain of command, so I'm not sure where the issue is coming from. I've seen/heard of Dependas and Brats causing more problems due to family ties.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 9:42 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:42:31 -0400

My cousin (whom I'm very close to) is my Brigade Commander. We know how to keep family and work separate. It's all about I guess not trying to take advantage/play the system.

Response by CPL Precious Hill made Aug 10 at 2016 11:40 AM

CPL Precious Hill — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:40:43 -0400

Family is family. How can you be restricted from family, because of rank???

Response by Wanda Dazley-Kern made Aug 10 at 2016 11:48 AM

Wanda Dazley-Kern — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:48:45 -0400

Family Is Not Fraternization

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2016 12:33 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:33:45 -0400

In my opinion it depends on the setting. Military functions yes... Informal functions no. But on paper there is no exception.

Response by SPC Andrea Montalvo made Aug 10 at 2016 7:24 PM

SPC Andrea Montalvo — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 19:24:00 -0400

I personally feel that as long as the blood relations are not doing any favors for their relatives, then they should be allowed to be around their loved ones. Military life can be rough and family is the one thing that gets a lot of service members through hard times. By telling a soldier they can no longer communicate with their loved ones because they both happen to be in the military, you may be taking away a soldier's support system. At the same time, I think if those relatives are in a position to do special favors, they should refrain from doing so.

Response by SFC Tim Wells made Aug 10 at 2016 10:18 PM

SFC Tim Wells — Wed, 10 Aug 2016 22:18:05 -0400

No Fraternization , if family it is OK as long as they are not in the same command

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 12:28 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 00:28:53 -0400

I don' think this should be a big deal but what do I know? I'm a Private

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 12:57 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 00:57:46 -0400

I would say it depends on whether or not they were taking time from training.

Response by CPL Charla Sisk made Aug 11 at 2016 2:13 AM

CPL Charla Sisk — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 02:13:38 -0400

I think you should be allowed to be with your family any time you want.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 8:05 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:05:52 -0400

That truly is difficult to say. If the MAJ father or the NCO cousin was trying to benefit their AIT soldier or SPC cousins career by using their rank, I feel that's where the fraternization policy should take affect. You shouldn't be forced to stay away from your family bc of their rank.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 11 at 2016 11:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 23:17:57 -0400

As an E4 my father was my 1SG when i was attached to recruiting command. He told my NCOIC day one of his taking over our area that if there was any problem with me,cut my orders there would be no favoritism.

Response by Courtney Vincent made Aug 12 at 2016 7:56 AM

Courtney Vincent — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:56:32 -0400

I am an honest to God nobody so I know my opinion doesn't count for much but I think with family it should not be fraternization UNLESS that relationship affects their work. Family is Family. The uniform is separate. No amount of someone telling me I should be allowed to be near or talk with my father would stop me, he's my father.

I'm not in myself but I've worked around a lot of soldiers, and of the ones I know where there's a family member I generally (of course not always as many have pointed out) see that the family member of higher rank tends to be more strict, and harder on those of lower rank while in uniform to not give the illusion of favoritism to others and out of the uniform they allow themselves the freedom of being family. I think the major issue comes into play when things happen like SGM Cook said where it's an obvious taking advantage of the system.

Family that cannot work together and understand what is required of them while in uniform should be split up and it should be known that 'so-and-so' should not be allowed favors from *insert high ranking family member here*

There's a time and place for all behavior, and if you aren't able to put family relations aside while in uniform there should be something done about it. I've seen many Father-Son / Husband-Wife / Mother-Son uniformed relationships work just fine as long as everyone remembers their place and duty when it's necessary.

Response by Cpl Zsanette Sargalis made Aug 12 at 2016 10:50 AM

Cpl Zsanette Sargalis — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 10:50:35 -0400

i think its perfectly fine only because they're related

Response by SPC Willie Fisher made Aug 12 at 2016 11:22 AM

SPC Willie Fisher — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 11:22:42 -0400

Yes by definition it is fraternizing

Response by PFC Immanuel Metcalf ii made Aug 12 at 2016 7:39 PM

PFC Immanuel Metcalf ii — Fri, 12 Aug 2016 19:39:12 -0400

This is stickier than a 20 year old duck tape ball dipped in diesel. Integrity Retraining is effective.

Response by SPC Carah Snyder made Aug 13 at 2016 12:09 AM

SPC Carah Snyder — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 00:09:17 -0400

I believe you should keep your personal life separate from work.

Response by CPL Ruesh Yazzie made Aug 13 at 2016 4:30 AM

CPL Ruesh Yazzie — Sat, 13 Aug 2016 04:30:18 -0400

The standard should apply to everyone!!

Response by Cpl Rita Pickel made Aug 14 at 2016 10:42 PM

Cpl Rita Pickel — Sun, 14 Aug 2016 22:42:52 -0400

I think family shouldn't be assigned to the same unit. And if they aren't in the same unit, then it shouldn't matter.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 6:56 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 06:56:51 -0400

The fact that this is a question shows what's wrong with some of the military's viewpoints

Response by SGT Carl Guillory made Aug 15 at 2016 8:40 AM

SGT Carl Guillory — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 08:40:41 -0400

It all depends on if they are getting special treatment and using their family members rank to get ahead

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2016 6:26 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Aug 2016 18:26:30 -0400

Great question! So my cousin whom I am close with is a LTC. We discuss the military on occasion however only in a professional way. Family is family, but under no circumstance should that relationship have influence in their professional life. Another instance, I had a Soldier who's dad was a CSM. Soldier got a DUI, his dad was professional and did not get involved, if anything I got the impression he wanted us to go harder on him.

Response by PV2 Chad Lawlor made Aug 16 at 2016 12:57 AM

PV2 Chad Lawlor — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 00:57:22 -0400

If they're relatives it shouldn't matter

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 11:00:52 -0400

I deathly don't think so but is non-exception to the rules because you have a brother or sister even father and mother that's somewhat of a higher rank to get you out of a drill or duty is bullshit. my brother is A Chief Master Sergeant in the Air Force. I might ask for his advice but that doesn't mean shit in the army and that he's my brother pull strings for me.

Response by Sgt Dawn Melissa made Aug 16 at 2016 1:25 PM

Sgt Dawn Melissa — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:25:17 -0400

If the blood relatives interfere with the younger rank then yea it is!

Response by Cpl Anthony Balconis made Aug 16 at 2016 2:08 PM

Cpl Anthony Balconis — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:08:55 -0400

Always a touchy subject. Honestly if they can keep work and personal lives desperate I see no reason to stop it. But the moment the family member of lower rank asks a work related favor of their higher ranked family it becomes an issue. At that point I would deem it fraternization.

Response by SPC Lee Stewart made Aug 16 at 2016 4:38 PM

SPC Lee Stewart — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 16:38:33 -0400

Not fraternization, but nepotism isn't any better.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2016 11:38 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 23:38:34 -0400

I don't feel that the example given is a direct sign of fraternization because it is just a daughter spending some time with her father. However if she is doing this while on working hours and does not have reasons to see him during those hours then yes she could be playing the my dad is an officer card. And if her father is protecting her from working or is using his position and rank to get her out of work, speedy promotions, squashing issues that could get her Art 15 charges and things of that nature then yes I feel it is fraternization.

Response by Heather Benton made Aug 17 at 2016 7:37 AM

Heather Benton — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 07:37:05 -0400

As long as it's not causing problems why does it matter if our soldiers spend time together. How do you expect to put so many people together and not expect relationships to form. its human nature to become close to people who you are surrounded by. With it being people who are already family, I'd think they'd just get even closer. Thanks to all the men and women of the services and their families for giving so much to keep us safe.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 1:13 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:13:57 -0400

You guys are talking about something that is really stated pretty clearly fraternization is an unduly familiar relationship the were related prior to child joining the army. So it's not unduly familiar. It would be like a the wife/ husband of an LT enlisting in the army... There was a prior relationship so it's not fraternization

Response by SGT Alan D. Garrison II made Aug 20 at 2016 3:15 PM

SGT Alan D. Garrison II — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 15:15:17 -0400

If not in the same unit or in direct influence of their career it should be fine. They should hold to standards while in uniform but out of uniform they are family

Response by SSG Joe Flores made Aug 22 at 2016 8:02 PM

SSG Joe Flores — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:02:53 -0400

Do it in private, away from the troops

Response by Mitch Smard made Aug 22 at 2016 8:07 PM

Mitch Smard — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:07:27 -0400

Yes.

Response by PO1 John Porter made Aug 22 at 2016 8:52 PM

PO1 John Porter — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:52:01 -0400

If it is her father rank is not a factor. Being her father trumps the normal protocols of officer and enlisted.

Response by Cpl Heath Miller made Aug 22 at 2016 10:48 PM

Cpl Heath Miller — Mon, 22 Aug 2016 22:48:36 -0400

If they cannot influence each other's career, then what does it matter?

Response by CPO Larry Cox made Aug 23 at 2016 1:19 AM

CPO Larry Cox — Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:19:58 -0400

While I was on active duty in San Diego as a PO2, my Vice Admiral uncle was also stationed there. Out of uniform, at family functions he was uncle Skip, as soon as we were in the public, in uniform or not, he was Admiral!!
You have to draw a line, a good leader always will, family or not!

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2017 9:34 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 09:34:51 -0400

When I commission I'm still hanging out with my brother. He's an E5

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2018 5:24 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:24:02 -0500

As a former AIT PSG, That should be an exception. That parent should get treated like all other IET SM's parents. They should be able to sign their Soldier out on family pass and everything else that a civilian parent can do. As long as the parent try not to influence anything that will favor their kid, they should be ok.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2018 3:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Jan 2018 15:41:57 -0500

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member to an extent it should not be. When it comes to perception that favoritism negatively impacts the unit's morale then it is an issue. Looking back in the Civil War in the 20th Maine you have a COL (Commander) whose brother was a LT. Did they talk all the time? I bet they did but if you look at the movie Gettysburg (if it is a true depiction of what happened) the COL knew that there was a line such as do not call me by my first name.

As all things there is a time and place. If you are in AIT and you get extra permissions to see family than other yes that is an issue. If you are at AIT and you get off duty with everyone else and you go see your family who happens to be a MAJ and others go to the movie then there is just a PSG overacting and being a pain just to be a pain. I served next to a MSG whose family was all in the military (like all cousins, brothers, etc.) and three of them were deployed at the same time to Afghanistan. They were able to be in contact but were not assigned at the same locations and had no perception of favoritism.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Feb 15 at 2018 6:34 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 18:34:57 -0500

No big deal. As a Sgt E5 I hung with some SSG’s and Sp4’s. But none of us worked in the same divisions. We would drink a PX beer and play Pinochle when one of us had CQ. We didn’t go to town together but we were friends. That was Germany, Nam was different

Response by Capt David Bays made Apr 25 at 2018 4:12 PM

Capt David Bays — Wed, 25 Apr 2018 16:12:17 -0400

Whether or not it is "fraternization," perception matters. My dad was an O-6 when I joined. He was NORAD IG at one point and came to Tinker AFB where I was stationed for an inspection (not my unit). I ran into him at the O Club and had drinks and dinner with him and a general who was with the unit being inspected (not in my chain of command). No big deal, other than they made me the Lt pay for dinner, until the next morning when i was called into my squadron commander's office to answer, "What the hell were you doing with the General and Colonel last night at the Club?"

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 16 at 2018 8:43 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Thu, 16 Aug 2018 20:43:59 -0400

As long as the relatives are not in their CoC, they should keep it professional when in uniform. As we know, some soldiers are parents, children, or spouses of soldiers of different ranks and again, should keep it professional while in uniform.