Is it authorized to rate somebody the same rank as you for an OER?

2015-08-28T14:07:49-04:00

I am in a situation in which I am supposed to rate a fellow O-3 on their OER. I am not necessarily in a position in that person's direct chain but per my Bn CDR's guidance, he prefers that I rate this person. Is this authorized? In what manual can I find guidance?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 2:23 PM

2015-08-28T14:23:38-04:00

Sir, are you slotted to be this other Officers official rater? If not, then you probably should be the one rating them.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 28 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-08-28T14:52:12-04:00

Reference is AR 623-3, Chapter 2.
Yes sir, you may rate the officer, so long as you are senior in TIG. The S/R must be an LTC or higher.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 11:48 AM

2015-09-01T11:48:30-04:00

CPT, I would refer to your organization's official OER rating scheme. Check with the BN S-1 if you can't locate it. An official OER rating scheme is a requirement not an option. Second, refer to DA Pam 623-3 and AR 623-3. Rating schemes are normally done IAW with position and date of rank and other unique circumstances. For example, DA civilians can also rate officers. When in doubt, communicate your concerns to your commander or higher if necessary.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-09-01T12:13:52-04:00

Yep. As a MAJ I was rated by another MAJ. That was also my first ACOM. He was the section chief though so it was more black and white than your situation.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:30 PM

2015-09-01T12:30:16-04:00

The regulation is 623-3. You are authorized to rate a soldier so long as you are senior to them by Rank OR Date of Rank :)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:40 PM

2015-09-01T12:40:39-04:00

The Rater needs to have an earlier DOR. AR 623-3 2-5 b. 1.

There are exceptions for specialty branches. I.e., I've seen O-4/O-5 MEDCOM Docs and Nurses rated by their commanders who were junior by DOR, which is allowable in certain circumstances.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-09-01T12:41:59-04:00

You can rate people of the same rank. However, usually it is dictated by the position that you hold...like a company commander. As a company commander, you may have an XO that is also a CPT. I am a little confused on this one... your rating scheme should already list the Rater, Sr. Rater, and Reviewer. Are you being asked to be the Rater or Senior Rater?

Response by COL Bernie Williford made Sep 1 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-09-01T13:12:21-04:00

Yes in certain cicumstances. AR 623-3

Response by BG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 1:20 PM

2015-09-01T13:20:24-04:00

Your second sentence is a red flag. Per new guidance issued about two years ago with the EES, the Rater must be someone who is in that person's chain of command or has intimate knowledge of the duties that person performs. Rater and SR's can no longer move around who they rate or don't rate in order to get a better Rater/ SR profile. This is especially important with the new EES system since Raters now have a profile.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 1:36 PM

2015-09-01T13:36:22-04:00

Absolutely! As long as you are in the position as his rater and meet the requirements in the regs

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 2:28 PM

2015-09-01T14:28:34-04:00

Per AR 623-3 the rater can be of the same rank as the rated Soldier as long as they outrank them by date of rank. However, if you are not in the Soldier's supervisory chain, you should not be rating them, their supervisor should

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 6:49 PM

2015-09-01T18:49:42-04:00

Refer to AR 623-3. You are authorized to rate the other CPT provided you have date of rank. Ideally you would have direct oversight of this Soldier to evaluate their performance. In some circumstances the Commander may have limited staff to serve as Raters and Senior Raters, and may have to adjust the rating scheme accordingly.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-09-01T18:53:19-04:00

I concur with the others, AR 623-3 para 2-5.a. provides for seniority by date of rank to be sufficient for rating like-graded officers. AR 623-3 para 2-3 also says that the Bde CDR must approve a rating scheme for a Bn HQs. However, like mentioned above, your second sentence is a red flag. Are you being asked to rate another CPT just in time to do the OER? Or are you being told that you're going to begin supervising/rating the individual? If so, then there may be an implied task that you need to assess how to interact with the other captain in order to supervise him properly. It's an awkward position for a younger officer, but it's not uncommon. If your situation is the ladder, then I suggest you ask your commander for some guidance on how to pull this other individual in so you can better meet the requirements of being a direct supervisor.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 9:30 PM

2015-09-01T21:30:08-04:00

AR 623-3 and DA PAM 623-3. You can rate someone the same rank as you especially if he/ she works for you. Sometimes XOs pin on CPT and are rated by the company commander who is senior in rank ank position. I hope this helps. MAJ H.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-09-02T12:41:04-04:00

Look in AR 623-3. For an AR Officer the rater "A military rater will be senior to the rated officer, by grade or date of rank." However there are exceptions, such as being in a Command position. In the Reserves and the Guard the new EES system and HRC will kick back any OER that the SR rater is not at least two grades above the rated officer unless the rated officer is O6 or above.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 1:16 PM

2015-09-02T13:16:51-04:00

I have never seen a CPT rate another CPT, if it is even possible, it sounds like your BC is setting up that CPT for failure. As a CPT, all my raters have been O5 and above; my last OER was rated and senior rated by O6s.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-09-02T13:28:21-04:00

Seek legal counsel; and counselings are important; I personally do not want another CPT to rate me; we are basically peers; someone may not want to do the right thing

Response by COL Thom Brooks made Sep 2 at 2015 3:39 PM

2015-09-02T15:39:41-04:00

CPT Hignight, the BLUF: If you outrank him and he works for you, then it is appropriate for you to rate him (for example, time in grade). If this is not true, then generally you should NOT rate him. It is not uncommon that the usual relationship is not normal, and all Soldiers should be taken care of (as far as rating), but you are not doing yourself or the Soldier any good if he/she is not working for you. Placing Soldiers in your chain because of the preference of your Bn CDR is undue influence and is concerning, let alone inappropriate. If you have any concerns about this and cannot resolve this with your CDR, you should seek legal guidance. Every Soldier has a right to a fair rating by the person for whom they work. Not knowing the specifics, this is the best I can respond. v/r TEB

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 4:07 PM

2015-09-02T16:07:41-04:00

The Reg is AR 623-3. I'd also recommend looking at DA PAM 623-3 for additional information. By regulation, you can rate someone of the same rank as long as you are senior by date of rank. The exception is for commanders who can rate someone of the same rank regardless of date of rank.

You might also want to look in the reg for the section that talks about the intent of determining the rating chain. The rater is intended to be that person who is most directly the immediate supervisor of the rated officer (i.e., the person who give the rated officer the majority of his/her daily supervision).

Hope this helps/

Response by CDR Chuck Wolfe made Sep 2 at 2015 4:23 PM

2015-09-02T16:23:28-04:00

I'm presuming you are a AF or Army O-3 writing a Navy O-3 Fitness Report? If so, the Navy has a performance writing regulation that would spell out the requirements. You should be in the person's chain of command (above) if you are evaluating their performance. Otherwise, you may give their superior your input or opinion but shouldn't write/grade their FitRep.

Response by COL Michael Cook made Sep 2 at 2015 8:33 PM

2015-09-02T20:33:13-04:00

IAW AR 623-3 Rater requirements. The rater will be the immediate supervisor of the rated Soldier responsible for directing and assessing the rated Soldier's performance. The rater will normally be senior to the rated Soldier in grade or date of rank. CDRs will normally rate CDRs. Civilian raters for OERs and NCOERs will be officially designated on the established rating scheme. For purposes of this regulation, a civilian supervisor/rating official need not be classified as a supervisor under the Office of Personnel Management classification guidance provided they are responsible for directing and assessing the rated Soldier's performance.

Response by COL Michael Cook made Sep 2 at 2015 8:34 PM

2015-09-02T20:34:26-04:00

IAW AR 623-3: Rater requirements. The rater will be the immediate supervisor of the rated Soldier responsible for directing and assessing the rated Soldier's performance. The rater will normally be senior to the rated Soldier in grade or date of rank. CDRs will normally rate CDRs. Civilian raters for OERs and NCOERs will be officially designated on the established rating scheme. For purposes of this regulation, a civilian supervisor/rating official need not be classified as a supervisor under the Office of Personnel Management classification guidance provided they are responsible for directing and assessing the rated Soldier's performance.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-09-03T11:59:41-04:00

Rating officers of the same grade is not that uncommon; however positional authority as a supervisor over the other officer(s) has always been present in my experience.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 12:43 PM

2015-09-03T12:43:36-04:00

Hello CPT Hignight,
As I understand it you need to be one rank above another to be the Rater. The Only time rank does not matter is with a Physician Assistant(PA) who require a Physician as Rater or Senior Rater. Then the Rater who is MD and CPT can rate A PA who could be a MAJ. The Senior rater needs to be one up from Rater or in Command Position. You can check with your Higher headquaters and your Unit might need a letter of accepatnce to allow you to be a Rater ( when the Unit has limited Officers)

Hope this helps,
MAJ(P) Mickey

Response by LCDR Jeffery Dixon made Sep 3 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-09-03T13:53:40-04:00

He obviously values your input. Maybe he cares about "peer" views.
He asked, I would do it. He knows tha parameters of what you are and are not exposed re: this other 0-3.
There is nothing in any manual that forbids who gives him input.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:20 PM

2015-09-03T14:20:34-04:00

AR 623-3 is the OER system (if I remmeber Correctly)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:48 PM

2015-09-03T14:48:03-04:00

You are authorized to rate another CPT if in fact you are his direct supervisor and at least for 90 days. For example, you are the company commander in a medical unit and you have nurses that are CPTs and work for you. They would answer to you since you are in command. However you also have to be in rater scheme that should have been published monthly and signed by your BN CDR. You cant just be made the rater overnight.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 2:52 PM

2015-09-03T14:52:27-04:00

I don't know your Bn CDR's intent but it might be agreeable for the rated officer to have you as his intermediate rater, that way you retain your authority without the officer having anxiety that he/she is being disadvantaged on his OER real or percieved.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2015 6:25 PM

2015-09-03T18:25:10-04:00

I've just found out that this can happen, but you need assumption of command orders to accompany the oer

Response by COL Tom Lewis made Sep 8 at 2015 11:55 AM

2015-09-08T11:55:53-04:00

Refer to a 42A professional. Preference cannot override regulations. Your S1 should immediately quote AR 623-3 and DA Pam 623-3. A bulletin board is a dangerous source to seek information. Too often you get good intention but misplaced "guidance" in the form of opinions.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2015 2:40 PM

2015-09-08T14:40:11-04:00

Sure...you see it at the O6 level without an issue, folks not on a track... but it doesnt pass the common sense drill IMO to be done at the CGO level...

Response by COL Jeffrey Carra made Sep 9 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-09-09T11:58:32-04:00

Are either of you special branch officers? (Chaplain, JAG, Medical ...) Aside from whether you are in the supervisory chain, the reg (and law) says the rater must be senior in grade to the rated officer. The exception is those in positions deemed to be senior - i.e., Commanders can rate anybody else in their unit. The clause that goes with the evaluation is "By Direction of the President" I was a group S-1 and our Group Chaplain (a Catholic priest, and an O6) had about twenty years TIG over the Group Commander (a QM O6) but, because the commander was in the command position, he could rate officers of the same grade and actually senior to him by TIG. I don't think anybody at HRC checks, but if there is an appeal, this is a gimme at the Board.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 12:16 PM

2015-09-09T12:16:28-04:00

No....you can not rate a officer that is not in your chain. Its like rating a CPT that is a pilot and you are a MI officer. Now if you are the supervisor that was responsible for him/her different story. But your Bn Cdr is wrong, but most likely because he has a certain amount of Captains on his profile he can rate, he's trying to shortcut a situation, but he cant do that. AR623-3 is the regulation that covers this.

Response by Lt Col Ben Beeson made Sep 9 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-09-09T14:18:24-04:00

Please make sure you are actually supervising (officially -- as in you signed papers saying so) the concerned person for at least the minimum time before you write..... Get good advice from the S-1 on the process and do the right thing.

Response by LTC Mo Vanderslice made Sep 9 at 2015 2:43 PM

2015-09-09T14:43:06-04:00

As an HHC commander, when I PCS'd I had to rate my XO, who had been promoted to O3 about two months prior. But, as you can see, I was in his chain of command and for the qualifying amount of time. If this captain is on staff, he/she should be rated by the S3 or Bn XO. If an acting S3 or Bn XO has not been in the rating chain long enough to qualify as the eater, then the senior rater does the whole OER themselves without any rater comments, other than "per AR-xx, the current rater is does not qualify to rate this service member." - keep in mind, the rated officer's previous rater should have initiated a change of rater OER prior to their departure, unless that officer was relieved for cause.
Any CSM, 1SG, AG officer, or HR expert - please correct my mistakes as its been a while since I went through this situation. Thx - Mo

Response by MG Elder Granger made Sep 9 at 2015 3:57 PM

2015-09-09T15:57:41-04:00

Chapter 2, AR 623-3 will provide the backup regulation as stated by BG below.

Response by CDR Rob Smith made Sep 9 at 2015 4:12 PM

2015-09-09T16:12:48-04:00

USCG Persman Chapter 10

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 9:28 PM

2015-09-09T21:28:09-04:00

Yes. I had another captain rate me on deployment. I think they need to have a higher date of rank

Response by CPT Carl Ford made Sep 10 at 2015 12:59 PM

2015-09-10T12:59:52-04:00

I've been out of the Army too long to advise you on manuals and such. For me the key phrase is: "per CDR''s guidance."

Response by LTC Gary Orsetti made Sep 10 at 2015 1:07 PM

2015-09-10T13:07:00-04:00

Interesting issue. I've been out for awhile, but as I recall that would be a no go. A-equal grade B-how can you objectively rate someone you have little working knowledge of? Re: AR guidance-I have no idea. See your S-1. Good luck.

Response by LTC Michael A. Staves made Sep 10 at 2015 1:32 PM

2015-09-10T13:32:09-04:00

Usually if you are in a position which the individual falls under you it is okay. As far as for the what is directed by the Commander you might check the AR reference on the OER 67-8 form. I believe it is AR 623-105.

Response by CDR William Kempner made Sep 10 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-09-10T14:00:29-04:00

It is never appropriate to be the rater of someone of the rank. An obvious conflict of interest, even if there was none intended. Doesn't matter what branch or service. It should ALWAYS be a senior. I put up with that crap on a Surface Warfare Officer board where one of the board members was of equal rank and not yet qualified. I should have complained, but it would have caused MORE heartburn than the situation itself. Afterwards, I told same person that they needed to finish ALL parts of the old Warfare section of the SWO Qual package before I would entertain them at a SWO board. He (and others) didn't and had to wait until I left. Equal justice under the law.(Sorry about that.) Same thing goes for FITREPS/OERS. If you have to, you go to the rater's superior. In some places, like USAF used to do, that was a good thing.(I think they stopped it-a who knows who endeavor.) Good. A bulls##t practice.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 10 at 2015 2:04 PM

2015-09-10T14:04:54-04:00

I have done this as the preparer of the rating. Usually, when I have a better understanding of the individual than the person directly over the senior person due to my proximity to the individual. Once completed, and forwarded for approval, modifications were made as necessary and the rating then become the approving officer's, no longer mine. Of course the write-up was very confidential. Maybe that is just the Navy way, but it worked for me and the individual. Lots of strange "stuff" came my way as Special Projects Office manager at the command.

Response by LTC Jesse Edwards made Sep 10 at 2015 3:59 PM

2015-09-10T15:59:36-04:00

You should have an S1 to consult. There are specified times when positional authority allows an officer to rate another officer of similar rank. These questions are what keeps the S1 employed.

Response by COL John Hudson made Sep 10 at 2015 4:34 PM

2015-09-10T16:34:44-04:00

Your local Inspector General will always have the proper guidance available: "AR 20-1 Inspector General Activities and Procedures." The IG IS the proponent for all Army Regulation. You can make an appointment, call in...even send an anonymous letter. Bottom line absent more detail = No. Without a formal written Rating Scheme, you can not rate anyone not directly under your supervision and/or without personal knowledge of that individual's duty performance. Some wiggle room may exist due to certain circumstances, but I would contact the IG to make sure. Otherwise, you can probably look this up online via AR 20-1 and navigate to the appropriate subject material. The issue as given by you would have me advise the Commander is incorrect to request this. During my own 30yr career, I was rated by a person equal in rank who held the title of "Section Chief" and I worked for him (he had higher time in grade). He was, of course, intimately familiar with my contributions and was listed on a proper organization Rating Scheme. JCH, Colonel, Inspector General (Ret).

Response by MAJ Bruce Knapp made Sep 11 at 2015 1:06 PM

2015-09-11T13:06:30-04:00

I for one, would not have wanted to be rated by a peer of my same rank nor would I have wanted to rate either. TIG is not predominantly looked at when this rated officer's OER is reviewed for command, a position or promotion. He/she deserved someone of higher rank and that rater should be in his/her direct chain. May I also add that when I was in a position under a civilian I truly appreciated that I was rated by a senior military officer with input from the civilian supervisor.

Response by LTC Doug Nickelson made Sep 12 at 2015 9:52 AM

2015-09-12T09:52:16-04:00

Are you speaking of being Intermediate Rater?
AR 623-3

Intermediate Rater:
2–6. Rules for designating an intermediate rater (DA Form 67–10 only) This paragraph does not apply to DA Form 2166–8, DA Form 1059, or DA Form 1059–1. An intermediate rater will only be included for specialty branches (Chaplain Corps, JAGC, and AMEDD), when there is a level of technical supervision between the rater and senior rater, in dual supervisory situations, and when the rater’s immediate supervisor would be the logical senior rater, but does not meet senior rater eligibility requirements as outlined in table 2-1. Under unique circumstances, requests for an exception to policy may be granted. Written requests for an exception to policy, endorsed by the first commanding General Officer (or equivalent) in the organization, will be submitted to HQDA in
accordance with the guidance contained in paragraph 2–6c. a. An intermediate rater will be an officer of the U.S. Armed Forces, U.S. Coast Guard, or allied armed forces, or an employee of a U.S. Government agency (including nonappropriated fund employees). In addition, the intermediate rater
will—
(1) Be senior to the rated officer in grade or date of rank. A civilian intermediate rater has no minimum grade requirement but will be officially designated on the established rating scheme.

Senior Rater:
Tbl 2-1
To Senior Rate 1LTP/CPT Senior Rater must be O–5 LTC/Lt Col/MAJP
I believe these address your concern.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 13 at 2015 12:27 PM

2015-09-13T12:27:10-04:00

Your question raises a couple of issues. What is the reason for the commander wanting you to rate the other officer? Is it to give the officer a more fair evaluation? Do you have better visibility over what the officer is doing? Can you fairly rate him based on your interactions?

Just to reiterate what others have said, AR 623-3, para. 2-5a and b, you must be the direct supervisor of the Soldier and senior in grade or time in grade to that Soldier. There are stipulations for people in command positions that can change that. Based on what you said, you are not the direct supervisor so an OER from you could violate the chain of command. That being said, I think the USAR will be more lenient on rules because of the part time duties, etc. I had a situation where a LTC of a lesser date of rank wrote an OER for me and he was not in a command position. I raised the issue with the Commander and ended up getting rated by the LTC regardless. I was going to fight this but in the end, it was not worth doing that.

There are a couple of things I think you should consider. Per AR 623-3, it does not seem like you are eligible, However, if you push back about rating an officer not in your direct supervision, what will the impact be on you with the commander? Second, can you fairly rate him? So I would say that unless you have a strong objection to doing it, I recommend you rate the officer as it seems like it will be easier for everyone.

Response by LTC Nancy Bodyk (Retired) made Sep 15 at 2015 9:06 AM

2015-09-15T09:06:39-04:00

It is authorized to rate someone of the same rank as long as your date of rank is prior to theirs. If you are not in the individual's direct chain of command, the question really should be why isn't the officer's rater taking the time to do the right thing for this individual? You should be able to find information on authorized raters and senior raters in the latest evaluation manual. If you have questions you may want to contact your Branch Manager for the manual number as well as advice on how this will impact the rated officer's future board reviews.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 10 at 2022 9:06 PM

2022-09-10T21:06:55-04:00

Are we sure that an officer can rate an officer of the same rank. I feel like the answer got off topic.

Can a LTC, let's say DCO, rate another LTC, say the S2 or S3 -- if the S2 / S3 has date of rank over the DCO.

I don't care about the moving people around and managing profiles and politics. Is it within regs or not?