Posted on Sep 22, 2015
Is Capitalism to blame for the world's poverty?
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http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/the-left-has-its-pope/#8uvpvrzZXEPsq0VX.99
Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity, that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires many things – none of which is equally distributed around the world or even within a given society.
Any serious look at the history of human beings over the millennia shows that the species began in poverty. It is not poverty, but prosperity, that needs explaining. Poverty is automatic, but prosperity requires many things – none of which is equally distributed around the world or even within a given society.
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 44
Even Bono, who championed petitioning governments to solve the worldwide poverty issue admitted that there is nothing that compares to the effectiveness of Capitalism to fight poverty.
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Part of my heritage is Indian from India. I recall when my father went to India to visit family and friends. He told me of traveling on a train for hours to reach a cousin who lived in a village well beyond the populous. While visiting this cousin who lived in a grass shack as my father described it, my father felt he needed to do more for his cousin and the family. My Dad noted his cousin admiring the gold watch I brought my father. My Dad began to take it off his wrist and give it to his cousin. His cousin refused it. The cousin questioned why he needed the watch as there is no reason to track time. He knows when it's time to wake as the sun tells him so. He knows when it time to eat, his stomach tell him so. My Dad still left money for his cousin, against his cousin's wishes and told him for those days or times when things are not as plentiful. I think about this event and how we as a society believe our way is the only way to live. We see this as poverty and despair and want to fix it our way. Don't misunderstand, there are many places where our wealth can do good, but we need to engage the people to see what they need more so than what we think they need.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
My father would essentially make the same offer to relatives in Mexico, especially when he saw their children in need. Often the father would allow his pride to protest, but then he would accept my father's gift. I agree with you that poverty often is a matter of perspective--except where children are involved. A hungry child is hard to misinterpret...
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Sgt Spencer Sikder
CPO Andy Carrillo, MS - Most definitely Chief. However how we propose to resolve it may not fit the culture or life of those we are trying to help. That's why I suggest we engage them in the solution.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
Yes! Your recommendation is far better than sending pallets of relief only to have it all confiscated and sold off by corrupt officials and warlords!
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No is the answer because so many other cultures,nationalities , found themselves embroiled in wars. Capitalism made their aid and relief possible but their respective greed made prosperity impossible.
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No, without capitalism, we are still fighting for resources like the barbarian before us. Capitalism change humanity course for much better than it was. It may not be prefect but it is way better what is used to be. Capitalism only function correctly with a moral society, all the problem we are experiencing right now is all related to human nature, greed and laziness ... etc.
Blaming capitalism is like blaming a gun is killing people. :)
Blaming capitalism is like blaming a gun is killing people. :)
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
Actual capitalism has raised more people out of poverty than any other system known to man. Unfortunately, Capitalism no longer exists. Inject politics and what you end up is cronyism, not competition and not success or failure based on merit and meeting consumers' needs. When success and failure are based on political connections, you have cronyism, also known as fascism.
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Absolute Power corrupts absolutely!
Absolute Power corrupts absolutely, any system that is based on absolute central authority such as communism, socialism, and fascism will fail because humans are flawed. The corrupt in such a society will gain power and via cronyism surround themselves with people to keep them there. Those who were permitted to join the communist party in the USSR had a better life style than those who did not. The USSR was supposed to have treated all people the same but it failed to provide that. It is likely that the Soviets killed more of their own people during WWII than the Nazi’s. They burned down the grain storages in the Ukraine and let the people face the Russian winter with no food.
It would take a legion of saints to run communal society and they would have to be replaced with such people every generation. This is not possible given human nature and would at some point fail: Absolute Power corrupts absolutely
Absolute Power corrupts absolutely, any system that is based on absolute central authority such as communism, socialism, and fascism will fail because humans are flawed. The corrupt in such a society will gain power and via cronyism surround themselves with people to keep them there. Those who were permitted to join the communist party in the USSR had a better life style than those who did not. The USSR was supposed to have treated all people the same but it failed to provide that. It is likely that the Soviets killed more of their own people during WWII than the Nazi’s. They burned down the grain storages in the Ukraine and let the people face the Russian winter with no food.
It would take a legion of saints to run communal society and they would have to be replaced with such people every generation. This is not possible given human nature and would at some point fail: Absolute Power corrupts absolutely
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
North Korea is a perfect ongoing example of your observations, SSG Erny. Thanks for sharing.
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SSG John Erny
CPO Andy Carrillo, MS - Good Point Chief! Notice how fat that homicidal meglamaniac is!
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Capitalism isn't the free market. The Pope is only partially right, but majorly wrong in thinking centralized market controls, as in Marxism/Fascism, or government regulations are the answer. As was demonstrated in the Soviet Union, centralized control causes severe shortages. Capitalists try to ensure their market stays profitable either by adapting to competitive forces (good), or by controlling competitive forces (usually bad since this is done by stifling competition through government regulatory means, Crony Capitalism).
What the Pope, and most everyone else for that matter, fails to recognize, is the market place actually runs smoother when left alone, laissez-faire. It's called "Spontaneous Order." There's a short essay by Lawrence Reed called "I, Pencil" that explains this concept. The Pope, and everyone else, should give it a read and try to understand that controlling the market is untenable.
What the Pope, and most everyone else for that matter, fails to recognize, is the market place actually runs smoother when left alone, laissez-faire. It's called "Spontaneous Order." There's a short essay by Lawrence Reed called "I, Pencil" that explains this concept. The Pope, and everyone else, should give it a read and try to understand that controlling the market is untenable.
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
I agree with what you've written, MSgt Darren VanDerwilt, except that Capitalism IS free markets, where producers and consumers come together to determine what gets produced, how much, and at what cost. Free markets and laissez-faire ("let it happen") are the same thing.
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CPT L S - Ref "not only was Jesus and his family undocumented immigrants (or illegal), but many of his followers were outside of society in more ways than one, like ST Francis of Assissi. Ultimately, Jesus was for the poor, and yes, he did want to make their situation better, that is implied in EVERYTHING he did, and as he said, we have to judge from actions, not words in any case, and the words have been twisted through history, making that even more unreliable."
Remember, that Jesus is the Word of God - fully God existing forever, the author and finisher pf our faith, the Alpha and Omega. Every word in the Bible is His - not just the text in the Gospels.
As God, He is absolutely perfect while those who are his followers are imperfect.
Yes I agree people do twist the words of God for various reasons. Thankfully we can always go back to God's word to read for ourselves what the Word of God teaches. More importantly we who have a relationship with God have the blessed Holy Spirit to help us understand His word.
MAJ (Join to see), SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL, SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4", CPO Andy Carrillo, MS, CMSgt Mark Schubert, CH (MAJ) William Beaver, MAJ (Join to see), SGT Robert Hawks, SGT Randal Groover, SGT Forrest Stewart, SGT Jeremiah B., SGT James Hastings,
There are many aberrations of the gospel which have been created by man. I am highlighting tow man-made theologies which have a focus on the poor:
"The phrase “social gospel” is usually used to describe a Protestant Christian intellectual movement that came to prominence in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Those who adhered to a social gospel sought to apply Christian ethics to social problems such as poverty, slums, poor nutrition and education, alcoholism, crime, and war. These things were emphasized while the doctrines of sin, salvation, heaven and hell, and the future kingdom of God were downplayed. Theologically, the social gospel leaders were overwhelmingly postmillennialist, asserting that Christ’s Second Coming could not happen until humankind rid itself of social evils by human effort." http://www.gotquestions.org/social-gospel.html
"Liberation theology is a movement that attempts to interpret Scripture through the plight of the poor. True followers of Jesus, according to liberation theology, must work toward a just society, bring about social and political change, and align themselves with the working class. Jesus, who was poor Himself, focused on the poor and downtrodden, and any legitimate church will give preference to those who have historically been marginalized or deprived of their rights. All church doctrine should grow out of the perspective of the poor. Defending the rights of the poor is seen as the central aspect of the gospel." http://www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html
"The Bible certainly teaches followers of Christ to care for the poor (Galatians 2:10; James 2:15–16; 1 John 3:17), and we should speak out against injustice. And, yes, the Bible warns repeatedly against the deceitfulness of riches (Mark 4:19). However, liberation theology goes wrong in a couple of places. For one, it places social action on equal footing with the gospel message. As important as feeding the hungry is, it cannot take the place of the gospel of Christ (see Acts 3:6). Mankind’s primary need is spiritual, not social. Also, the gospel is for all people, including the rich (Luke 2:10). Visitors to the Christ Child included both shepherds and magi; both groups were welcome. To assign special status to any group as being preferred by God is to discriminate, something God does not do (Acts 10:34–35). Christ brings unity to His church, not division along socio-economic, racial, or gender lines (Ephesians 4:15)."
Remember, that Jesus is the Word of God - fully God existing forever, the author and finisher pf our faith, the Alpha and Omega. Every word in the Bible is His - not just the text in the Gospels.
As God, He is absolutely perfect while those who are his followers are imperfect.
Yes I agree people do twist the words of God for various reasons. Thankfully we can always go back to God's word to read for ourselves what the Word of God teaches. More importantly we who have a relationship with God have the blessed Holy Spirit to help us understand His word.
MAJ (Join to see), SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL, SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4", CPO Andy Carrillo, MS, CMSgt Mark Schubert, CH (MAJ) William Beaver, MAJ (Join to see), SGT Robert Hawks, SGT Randal Groover, SGT Forrest Stewart, SGT Jeremiah B., SGT James Hastings,
There are many aberrations of the gospel which have been created by man. I am highlighting tow man-made theologies which have a focus on the poor:
"The phrase “social gospel” is usually used to describe a Protestant Christian intellectual movement that came to prominence in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Those who adhered to a social gospel sought to apply Christian ethics to social problems such as poverty, slums, poor nutrition and education, alcoholism, crime, and war. These things were emphasized while the doctrines of sin, salvation, heaven and hell, and the future kingdom of God were downplayed. Theologically, the social gospel leaders were overwhelmingly postmillennialist, asserting that Christ’s Second Coming could not happen until humankind rid itself of social evils by human effort." http://www.gotquestions.org/social-gospel.html
"Liberation theology is a movement that attempts to interpret Scripture through the plight of the poor. True followers of Jesus, according to liberation theology, must work toward a just society, bring about social and political change, and align themselves with the working class. Jesus, who was poor Himself, focused on the poor and downtrodden, and any legitimate church will give preference to those who have historically been marginalized or deprived of their rights. All church doctrine should grow out of the perspective of the poor. Defending the rights of the poor is seen as the central aspect of the gospel." http://www.gotquestions.org/liberation-theology.html
"The Bible certainly teaches followers of Christ to care for the poor (Galatians 2:10; James 2:15–16; 1 John 3:17), and we should speak out against injustice. And, yes, the Bible warns repeatedly against the deceitfulness of riches (Mark 4:19). However, liberation theology goes wrong in a couple of places. For one, it places social action on equal footing with the gospel message. As important as feeding the hungry is, it cannot take the place of the gospel of Christ (see Acts 3:6). Mankind’s primary need is spiritual, not social. Also, the gospel is for all people, including the rich (Luke 2:10). Visitors to the Christ Child included both shepherds and magi; both groups were welcome. To assign special status to any group as being preferred by God is to discriminate, something God does not do (Acts 10:34–35). Christ brings unity to His church, not division along socio-economic, racial, or gender lines (Ephesians 4:15)."
What is the social gospel? How is the idea of a social gospel related to the concept of social justice?
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
I think where we all miss the point of Jesus' ministry is by ignoring a key 'commandment' found in Matthew 6:33--"But seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God; and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."
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Not in the least. Capitalism has, in 200 years, done more to advance humanity than all of human history prior. 200 years ago, the norm for the overwhelming majority of humanity not royals was what would be today considered grinding poverty. Moreover, the poor have benefitted the most from capitalism. As Dr. Milton Friedman said, a Roman or Chinese emperor or Egyptian Pharaoh would likely be highly pleased by our advancements in medicine and transportation but not much else. Back then, running people substituted for running water. Today, a middle class American enjoys more comfort and entertainment than did monarchs two short centuries ago.
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CPO Andy Carrillo, MS
Even the poorest in America have a higher standard of living than the "middle class" in most 3rd world countries...
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In spite what the anti-pope said, NO capitalism is not to blame. I believe laziness and a "I'm victim and you owe me" altitude are to blame. For years the US has given millions of dollars to the third world nations and they are no better off than they were 20-30 years ago. Why? Why should they work to improve themselves when the west gives them money for them to sit on their asses. We have the same altitude here in the States, the ones on welfare has it.
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No, I don't think so, communism didn't work, socialism doesn't work, dictatorships don't work either. The utopian government that the Pope seeks is one place, and that is not on this earth. To that end he can shut his trap about what the rest of should be doing in Free capitalistic societies. Go to China, North Korea, Some of the little the former Soviet vassal states and preach your message. Until you have what it takes to do the hard countries don't come here. Throw the SOB pedophile priests in jail, give up all the gold trinkets, how about renouncing that the papacy gave Ireland to the English? Apologize for the lack of action the Church took during the Nazi era, how about apologizing to the Arabs for the crusades. Apologize to Spanish for the Inquisition, to the Western World for the Actions of the Church against Native Peoples. Give me a fracking break. It is easy to preach the rest of us are bad, but fix your own house first. Hell he hasn't even reconciled with other Greek and Russian Orthodox Catholics.
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