Is being lost at sea considered desertion?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 19:42:57 -0400

Friends and I were having a late night discussion in the garage over some drinks during a thunderstorm.

If you are on leave and your plane crashes in the ocean, and you get washed up on a desert island, Tom Hanks Castaway style, I assume the military would assume you perished or were at least MIA if they couldn't find you.

So if you were rescued after say a year on this island, would your beneficiaries have to pay back your SGLI if they received it? Would the military take all of your leave days away? Would you still owe that year of service back? Or would you essentially pick up where you left off?

How would these questions be treated if this happened while not on leave, but in the line of duty. Like say your military plane or ship goes down and you make it to an island somehow.

I'm assuming maybe they'd treat it similarly to being a POW somewhere if it happened while on duty. Would you receive back pay?

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 8 at 2021 10:27 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Fri, 08 Oct 2021 22:27:41 -0400

No. Just no. If you were on official duty when you went missing, You are declared missing. DUSTWUN: duty status whereabouts unknown.

In that case:
SGLI: yes, if declared dead
Back Pay: Yes, if missing or PW status ( which means not DUSTWUN anymore)
Considered for promotion: yes
LOD injury: yes as long as you were following ROE and engaged in lawful activity.

Response by MSG Gary Eckert made Oct 9 at 2021 7:49 AM

MSG Gary Eckert — Sat, 09 Oct 2021 07:49:02 -0400

What happens when you are rescued depends on how the Army treats your absence when you disappear. If you are manifested on a commercial plane that has crashed into the ocean and presumed dead, you will be placed in excess leave (non-pay) until you are formally declared deceased at which time SLGI and death gratuity will be paid. If no one knows you are on the plane that crashed when you fail to return from leave, the Army will conduct an investigation into you absence. If the investigation fails to find a reason for your absence, you will be placed in an AWOL status and eventually dropped from the rolls. When you are found your duty status will change to an administrative leave since you failure to return was unavailable and you will receive back pay. If your dependents received death gratuity the Army will probably waive repayment since they were not aware you were alive. However, SGLI is not paid directly by the Government, it is insurance administered by a Commercial insurance company. I would be surprised if the insurance company didn’t at minimum send a demand letter for repayment.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Oct 9 at 2021 7:56 AM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Sat, 09 Oct 2021 07:56:04 -0400

Classic happy hour discussion! Congratulations on continuing a tradition. The one thing missing in your discussion is the fact that, even more than our civilian process, is that the UCMJ and even military administration always leaves an escape hatch where someone in the chain can reverse arbitrary or unrealistic actions in the favor of the individual.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Oct 9 at 2021 8:10 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Sat, 09 Oct 2021 08:10:12 -0400

Depends on intent. There have been cases in the past when someone’s status is changed from lost/missing to desertion/UA if evidence proved they are on the run.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Oct 9 at 2021 8:57 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Sat, 09 Oct 2021 20:57:25 -0400

If you legit had an accident that caused you to go missing, you wouldn't be a deserter. No.

Let's go with your hypothetical - if a SM got lost at sea in a plane crash and was missing for a year, first it would be up to a court to declare someone legally dead. Generally they only do that if someone is missing for a sufficiently long period of time - like several years. They probably wouldn't declare someone dead after a year. But no SGLI would get issued unless the SM was legally declared dead and a death certificate issued. I'm going to go with that within a year that wouldn't happen when there have been SMs missing for up to that period and not declared dead.

Why would the military take all of that SM's leave days away? For being stranded on an island through not fault of their own? That doesn't even make sense.

I'm pretty sure if someone is declared missing, the clock doesn't stop on their TIS. That wouldn't really make sense. I know if someone is MIA, they can be promoted while missing.

The only way someone gets in any trouble is if, when recovered, it's found out that you went missing on purpose. Like - Bergdahl...

Response by SR Kenneth Beck made Oct 10 at 2021 7:13 PM

SR Kenneth Beck — Sun, 10 Oct 2021 19:13:21 -0400

Only if you jumped overboard.
Sir reminds me of a “sea story” that occurred in 1976 while on “West-Pac” serving onboard the USS Truxton. A sailor decided to end it all and jumped overboard. The OOD conducted a Williamson Turn, a small boat was launched. The wet sailor was fighting the boat crew attempting the rescue. The coxswain said, “leave him alone he’ll soon be tired enough to want a rescue.” Boatswain’s mates are good judges of people.