Is alcohol indulgence a part of being in the military?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:17:05 -0400

The military is inundated with alcohol consumption. We drink grog at unit functions and drink to our fallen comrades. We drink, cheaply, at MWR events and we drink when we get together with our buddies to talk about the times we have had.

We have all seen service members reprimanded for alcohol consumption in excess and those service members that probably need some assistance, though they have never asked for or received it.

Should we continue to embrace the traditions that include alcohol consumption or should the military evolve and remove those traditions allowing for a more public friendly organization?

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jun 4 at 2015 6:18 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:18:13 -0400

I would disagree with this. I believe that the fact alcohol drinking on base and in clubs does happen that it is not part of being in the military. You can find the same thing happening on College Campuses all over the nation, does it make it part of all Colleges and Universities?

One can argue that while you are in the military you will consume alcohol. This is true but it is not part of being in the military.

Being in the military is about protecting your constitutional rights and our peaceful way of life while defending your family and friends against our aggressors. Comaraderie with our brothers and sisters in arms. Being apart of something that few people will ever experience or understand. I can go on and on. I know there will be people who will disagree and that's ok. But these are my thoughts.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jun 4 at 2015 6:27 AM

PO3 David Fries — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:27:21 -0400

One of my regrets from those days is how much I spent on booze. That being said, those were still the best days of my life. Did we need to drink to have fun? Not really, but we were college age kids doing exactly what other college age kids were doing with their free time.

As to the public friendly but; F the public. The vast majority don't care one bit about us, and never will. It doesn't matter how PC or public friendly you make the military; until you change the culture of John Q Public, it will Beas it is.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 4 at 2015 6:32 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:32:24 -0400

An on-going challenge since before I came in, in 76 retired in 97 and not that I wasn't guilty. I don't think I was ever completely sober in either of my 1 yr tours in Adak, AK or Diego Garcia BIOT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 6:33 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:33:11 -0400

Drinking alcohol has been associated with the military since time immemorial.

I wouldn't recommend we take away our traditions when it comes to unit functions, such as balls, hail and farewells, or stable calls. Those have been around for a long time, and planners of these events plan around the alcohol that is served at these events. Unit commanders stress individual responsibility on the matter.

Is over consumption culturally encouraged in the military? Hell yes it is, and that bothers me. Having a few with your buddies is one thing, but drinking until you can't see/walk straight is really stupid. (Take into account I was once the youthful idiot at one point)

Keep the traditions, but begin a cultural change to discourage overindulgent behavior. Exactly how to do that will obviously be up for debate.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 4 at 2015 7:10 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 07:10:11 -0400

No. Is it part of being in a fraternity or sorority? I'm not a drinker and made it through 20+ years knowing my limits and w/o over indulging. A few individuals over consume and give things a bad rap. Offering alcohol at an event to legal aged consumers does not promote over consumption. The people that need to "evolve" are those that don't know their limit.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 4 at 2015 7:48 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 07:48:40 -0400

Part of this is the average age of the service (about 25~). It's not that we actively promote it, it's that our "age bracket" (18-25) is in-line with the high risk category. The vast majority of service members do 4 years and get out. If you join at 18-22 years of age, that puts you in the prime drinking age, and "inexperienced drinkers" are the ones most likely to get into trouble, just like "inexperienced drivers" (16-25) are the ones most likely to have accidents.

I don't think it's a matter of embracing it or not.

We've removed hard alcohol from the barracks, and limited to a single six pack per person of age (policy when I was in), and that didn't correct the issue. We've done "make an example" and have some of the best Rehab programs available, and that hasn't corrected the issue. I'm not saying ignore it, but perhaps acknowledge that this isn't a military-centric issue.

Look at the next comparable data set, colleges, and see if they are having similar problems. They are. Have they been able to correct the issue better than we have? No. Have they tried similar programs? Yes.

That said, maybe we need to identify the problem for what it really is. Age-Centric vice Organization-Centric.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 4 at 2015 7:54 AM

SA Harold Hansmann — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 07:54:54 -0400

Not everyone consumed large amounts of alcohol. I can count on both hands the times I was drunk and still have fingers left over in the 45 yrs of my life. Two of those times was while I was active duty. My normal is to drink one or two drinks then switch to soda.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jun 4 at 2015 8:02 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 08:02:22 -0400

Yes, in many circles of the Army it is part of the culture. For sure.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 8:03 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 08:03:36 -0400

General Order 1 from CENTCOM is the most violated order in the military

Response by CMSgt Mark Schubert made Jun 4 at 2015 10:26 AM

CMSgt Mark Schubert — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:26:13 -0400

There is nothing "wrong" with alcohol - and it's not "part" of the military! Yes, it exists and many partake, but if you do it right, there is nothing wrong with it. Nobody forces anyone to drink in excess - and - if you do, that is wrong and you can (should) be held accountable for it. I don't know how "removing" it would make a "more public friendly organization".

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Jun 4 at 2015 10:53 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 10:53:34 -0400

While I certainly think that there is much more work that needs to be done to address this issue, I can tell you that the military has come a real long way in the past several decades to deemphasize alcohol in the military. I remember the days of mandatory happy hours, "prop blasts", and other gatherings where it was an expectation that you got blasted.

Drinking at functions is not restricted to the military. It is as abundant and, possibly, even more so in the civilian world.

Response by SSG Thomas Brousseau made Jun 4 at 2015 11:17 AM

SSG Thomas Brousseau — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 11:17:02 -0400

Any social function that keeps a team together while off duty builds unit cohesiveness and thats a good thing.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 12:16 PM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 12:16:40 -0400

It's a different military than it was in 92 when I first enlisted. We drank like fish back then, but we were also PVT's.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2017 8:50 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 11 Feb 2017 08:50:00 -0500

Well, I can probably write a disertation on this subject...All you have be is a Leader at any level within the military and this will cross your desk. Alcohol is legal and available, (Let's just stick with the United States for now)...ANY large organization WILL have that 0-to-3 percent of its population that will just get irresponsible and stupid...which will result in Command Referals to Rehab, military separation, the loss of a career and a less than honorable discharge. Not to mention the loss of a 4-day pass for no DUIs for everybody else...AND 10 extra hours of Alcohol Awareness Training...

From a personal perspective, throughout my military career...I have basically dodged the drinking age...the only time I wasn't allowed to have a beer was in Basic Training '1983...I was 17 and at the time really didn't have a desire for it...In AIT however, the TEXAS drinking age was 18...'1984 AND we were allowed to hangout at the NCO club on our off-time...the NCO club on Fort Sam Houston was literally a stone throw up the hill in our Battalion AO!!!!...then @ 19 I was stationed in Germany '1985 well you all know that story....the first thing my platoon did was take me out to the local watering whole and offered me to smoke some hashish...over indulge? eh maybe a little...but never had an issue with it..never became a problem as far as any UCMJ. I think one time during PT I threw up from too much Jack Daniels...after my 2yr tour...I was now 21 and now it wasn't an issue...eh did I get loaded from time-to-time...yes I did.

It will always be a problem (1-3% remember)....even when I was in Bosnia '2000...and General Order NO. 1 was in place it became an issue...why?...because US Personnel were the only ones that couldn't partake...all the other NATO partners in Bosnia could...the Danish, Italians, even the Russians...We had an LT that basically ruined her career by hanging out with the Italians and brought back a bottle of jack daniels to her hooch...eh dumb idea don't ya think....Resulted in a General Order Letter of Reprimand (GOLOR)...bad news...BAD...Just so you know...Near Beer sucks !!!!

I really love our Military Traditions...Dining-INS and Dining-Outs..Golf Outings with the General etc...and they have changed a little...for example non-alcoholic Grogs..and we don't force anyone to it....you dont want to get sent to that one...rather have the gasoline mixture quite frankly. We are a very diverse group of folks that serve...I would never force anyone to drink under any circumstance or criticise them if they do, but also I don't wan't to be read the riot act, if I have a beer because of your particular religious sensibilities...that's being nice...

Public Friendly ?!?!?...what are you kidding me ?!?!?....A Dining-IN for example is just us...the guy or gal in uniform having a little get lose time with his/her comrades...the public is not invited. Dining Outs are much more laxed...sorta...bring the wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, husband...significant other..No grog and alcohol is available if you wish to partake .You do have to be more civilized (sorta) and do I dare say Politically Correct !?!?...You don't want to completely embarrass your chain of command..or do you ???
All things in moderation and as any good 1SG will tell you...Don't Drink and Drive...the bus is outside for the barracks and the taxi number is 777-7777....and the Designated Drivers for tonight are SGT Sober and 2LT Mary Idontdrink if you need a ride...

Ok as usuall...I posted a thesis...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 10 at 2019 3:06 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 03:06:56 -0500

It is absolutely part of the military, problematic or not.

I stopped drinking June 9th, 2018 and I have zero desire to consume alcohol again. Having said that, drink as much as you want around me!

Response by SSgt G Wingate made Aug 5 at 2020 1:00 AM

SSgt G Wingate — Wed, 05 Aug 2020 01:00:17 -0400

Yup!