Is a SPC/E-4 considered an NCO? I have received two different answers. Can anyone clarify?

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:15:12 -0400

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 6:21 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:21:02 -0400

An E-4 is technically not an NCO. They may perform some duties of junior NCOs, but they are not. Just as SrA may perform some junior NCO duties, but are not NCOs.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 18 at 2015 6:24 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:24:36 -0400

Depends on what type of recruiter you talked to. In the Naval Services, E4+ are NCOs. In the Air Force it's E5+. In the Army, you have the SPC/CPL divide at E4 which creates confusion.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 6:36 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:36:40 -0400

SPC E-4 is not a NCO. CPL E-4 is. CPL's are laterally appointed based on duty position. For an E-4 to be considered an NCO in the US Army they must be CPL. AR 600-200

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Aug 18 at 2015 7:13 PM

SGT Lawrence Corser — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:13:58 -0400

Not one.

Response by CDR Laurel Meadows made Aug 18 at 2015 7:42 PM

CDR Laurel Meadows — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:42:51 -0400

E-4 in the Navy is an NCO, as is an E-5 or E-6. I don't know about other services.

Response by CDR Laurel Meadows made Aug 18 at 2015 7:43 PM

CDR Laurel Meadows — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:43:07 -0400

E-4 in the Navy is an NCO, as is an E-5 or E-6. I don't know about other services.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 7:55 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:55:26 -0400

Specialist is not an NCO.

Response by SFC(P) Jonathan P. made Aug 18 at 2015 7:56 PM

SFC(P) Jonathan P. — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:56:43 -0400

In the army E/4 are specialist and corporal: SPC being a lower enlisted and CPL being a junior NCO with the pay of a specialist but the responsibilities of a SGT. The difference is determined by the individual carrying the rank and how he or she conducts them selves as either soldiers or leadership characteristics.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 7:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:58:08 -0400

Army E4 spc is non nco... and E4 corporal is a nco

Response by SPC Bill Earley made Aug 18 at 2015 8:00 PM

SPC Bill Earley — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:00:56 -0400

E5 and above but not E1-4.

Response by SPC Brandon Wilson made Aug 18 at 2015 8:01 PM

SPC Brandon Wilson — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:01:39 -0400

An NCO is E5 or above, however an E4 (Corporal) is considered an NCO at times when instructed to lead as an NCO or a SuBject Matter Expert (SME).

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 8:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:04:42 -0400

No. Corporals are junior NCS though.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 8:09 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:09:19 -0400

A SPC is nooooooo NCO. A CPL is definitely is. A SPC can do NCO stuff but you are not an NCO. I do NCO stuff all the time.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Aug 18 at 2015 8:22 PM

SSG Eddye Royal — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:22:13 -0400

I became a TRAINING NCO 1 because I was in my NG UNIT before becoming active at HHB 1-5 FA and handing all the day to day operations. I also met met with the Battalion Cbr of 1-5 and CMR for their Approval or By off, you don't won't someone they didn't approve. No one else had been in this job more than 90 days. I hope this helps. You can also view my fb page.

Response by SPC David Young made Aug 18 at 2015 8:35 PM

SPC David Young — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:35:51 -0400

No, SPC/E-4 isn't an NCO & that's just the way it is. I held NCO positions in the past for brief periods of time and was treated as an NCO but that doesn't change the fact.

Response by SPC Joseph Jones made Aug 18 at 2015 8:39 PM

SPC Joseph Jones — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:39:03 -0400

If they are in the Army, Spc can serve as team leaders how ever corporals are considered NCO's. And second note E-4 is a pay grade not a proper rank.

Response by SPC Scott Pickard made Aug 18 at 2015 8:53 PM

SPC Scott Pickard — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:53:45 -0400

MSG Rader said it correctly. An E4 is eligible to be a CPL if they are in a leadership position (team leader/squad leader) and they have completed a PLDC or equivalent course. At least that's how it was when I was in!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2015 9:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:02:50 -0400

A SPC/E-4 is not an NCO. If that same SPC is in a leadership position, his/her CO can submit the request to have him/her "promoted" to CPL, which would make him/her an NCO. They are the same pay grade, E-4, but The rank of Corporal indicates greater responsibility, and is a rank of leadership, unlike the rank of Specialist.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Aug 18 at 2015 9:26 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:26:12 -0400

I am seriously crying, because I thought that I was a non-commissioned officer; all along. I guess not. The Army, the military mean the world to me.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Aug 18 at 2015 9:27 PM

COL Charles Williams — Tue, 18 Aug 2015 21:27:38 -0400

That is a CSM question, but unless they are Corporal, in the Army, they are not. Specialists are not NCOs.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 12:07 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:07:19 -0400

As many have stated an E-4/Specialist is not an NCO. If you talking to any other branch then yes it is. In the Air Force, Marines, and the Navy their E-4's are NCOs. The Army has CPLs that are NCOs but they are rare.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 19 at 2015 12:34 AM

PFC Tuan Trang — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:34:39 -0400

Spc to me is bot consider as an nco, once the unit have an open spot and it time for you to promote to coporal, then you can call yourself nco.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Aug 19 at 2015 12:35 AM

SFC Joseph Weber — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:35:28 -0400

Nope. Full Bird Private.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 1:27 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 01:27:39 -0400

Back in the day (speaking about the Army here, as you specifically state "SPC"), there were "hard stripes (NCOs) and Specialists. They could be any grade between E-4 and E-7. SP4, SP5, etc were advanced due to their technical skill, and paid accordingly. But they did not have the authorities of an NCO - SGT, SSG, etc. There still is a SPC (SP4) and a Corporal in the Army. CPLs are not terribly common anymore, as they need to be a Team Leader to be laterally appointed to that rank, but they are still out there and are considered NCOs.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 19 at 2015 1:44 AM

CPT Russell Pitre — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 01:44:04 -0400

Isn't this something Wikipedia could answer?

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Aug 19 at 2015 6:40 AM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 06:40:59 -0400

A Specialist is not an NCO. Now if they would get laterally promoted to Corporal then they would be an NCO.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 19 at 2015 8:11 AM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:11:44 -0400

SPC Margaret Higgins I would believe so. In the Air Force a sergeant is an E4

Response by SPC Ken Harper made Aug 19 at 2015 9:49 AM

SPC Ken Harper — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 09:49:21 -0400

Back in the mid-late 80s, when I was a SP4 at the MP Co in Germany, we were not considered NCOs. I started asking some questions about why we didn't have any CPLs in the Co. and got things "bubbling" on that and about a month after I ETS, my roommate was made CPL, along with a couple others in the Co. The "hard stripes" were considered NCOs but the SPCs weren't, even tho' both are E4. It never did make sense to me and still doesn't. Unless you've got time in grade, you don't outrank another E4. Never did understand how one rate could be full of SPCs and others only have CPLs. Like the other comment made about the CSM, yep, we had 'em.

Response by SPC Kimberley Kerr made Aug 19 at 2015 4:48 PM

SPC Kimberley Kerr — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 16:48:14 -0400

Spc4 are considered junior NCOs I believe

Response by SPC David S. made Aug 19 at 2015 7:39 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 19:39:15 -0400

SPC E-4 is a not an NCO. CPL ,which is an E-4 as well, is a NCO. It's a lateral promotion.

Response by SSG Toryn Green made Aug 19 at 2015 11:12 PM

SSG Toryn Green — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 23:12:18 -0400

No. A CPL/E-4 on the other hand IS an NCO. That is why the CPL rank exists.

Response by SPC James Evans made Aug 20 at 2015 1:59 AM

SPC James Evans — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 01:59:42 -0400

No a SP4 is not a NCO. Hard stripe E5 or Buck Sergeant starts the NCO rank rating.
The S = Specialist so a SP5 or SP4 is still not a NCO. Also E6 is a Sergeant First Class.

Response by SGT Frank Leonardo made Aug 20 at 2015 3:47 AM

SGT Frank Leonardo — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 03:47:36 -0400

NO CPL is a NCO in the Army

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 8:17 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:17:33 -0400

Easy way to know for the army is if you have 2 or more chevrons for rank you are a NCO.

Response by MAJ Anthony Henderson made Aug 20 at 2015 8:26 AM

MAJ Anthony Henderson — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 08:26:53 -0400

A SPC is not a NCO. A Corporal is a NCO. They both share the pay grade of E-4.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 10:21 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:21:22 -0400

I consider an E4 a Jr nco....that is, depending on the soldiers capabilities, experience on subject and ridership skills.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2015 6:38 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 18:38:44 -0400

No way. I might of done leadership roles but I never considered myself an NCO. Corporal would be the closest to that, but then again Corporal is probably the worst rank to ever have. Where your not quite an NCO but also not like the other E4s either. Just a rock stuck in a hard place. Short Answer, No. WLC is needed for that.

Response by SPC Jose Guevara made Aug 21 at 2015 6:38 AM

SPC Jose Guevara — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 06:38:19 -0400

As a Specialist in the Army you have a responsibility to lead by example to your subordinates, by no means are you an NCO but you better beilive when a Private comes to the Company he looks towards the Spc to see what he can and cannot do. Am i right or wrong?

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Aug 22 at 2015 12:01 AM

CPT Russell Pitre — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 00:01:35 -0400

How is this still a question. How many times can you say no. I guess the 72nd time wasn't enough.

Response by SPC Chris Early made Aug 22 at 2015 3:09 PM

SPC Chris Early — Sat, 22 Aug 2015 15:09:31 -0400

i have held an NCO position but your still an enlisted, once you get your e-5 your an NCO

Response by SPC William Weedman made Aug 25 at 2015 9:18 PM

SPC William Weedman — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 21:18:36 -0400

If you want to watch a corporal's eyes bug out, remind him that you both get paid the same...I served with a corporal on AD who was supply (how does a supply guy get corporal???) and reminded every Specialist in the unit he was an NCO and held "rank" over them. My friend who wasn't really impressed (neither was I but I was a lowly PFC at the time) when he played this game would remind him that their paychecks were the same. Needless to say this corporal looked for any chance to make our lives miserable. I was fortunate that my roommate was also in supply so when everything was "backordered" when I requested it, my roomie would hook me up.

Response by SPC David Comstock made Aug 28 at 2015 1:16 PM

SPC David Comstock — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 13:16:16 -0400

No E-4 is not an NCO if you have corpal you could be recognized as one but not the sheild

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Aug 28 at 2015 6:50 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 28 Aug 2015 18:50:52 -0400

A Specialist is NOT an NCO.

A Specialist may be put into a leadership position, and they need to conduct themselves appropriately, but that an NCO does not make. I was in a unit once that tried to make Specialists into pseudo-NCOs (and I was a SPC at the time) and it was ridiculous and we all hated it. We knew it wasn't right, and we only played the game when leadership was around to watch.

A Specialist is no NCO...they may have the greatest rank in the Army though; and if (ahem...) there were such a thing as an E4 Mafia, Specialists would truly be the shadowy force truly running the Army.

E4 Mafia, what E4 Mafia? ;-)

Response by SPC Donald Green made Aug 31 at 2015 1:35 PM

SPC Donald Green — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 13:35:58 -0400

It depends on the slot and the role that the troop in question fills. If they are in a team leader or section head position then yes they are an NCO if they are slotted lower then no they are just another enlisted soldier. But do keep in mind rank is rank and should always be respected.

Response by SPC Eddie Espejo made Aug 31 at 2015 6:02 PM

SPC Eddie Espejo — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 18:02:12 -0400

absolutely not. more like an nco in training and subject to get smoked at anytime lol by the same token ive seen E-4s so squared away that they act exactly like an nco and just waiting for the school. its kinda like an nco is not like command segeant major unless the guy got audie murphy weighing down his uniform lol !! j/k. feels good to talk like this and not get smoked lol HOOAH

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 7:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:41:05 -0400

This question has been answered, although CPL and SPC are at the same level, this is a lateral promotion, CPL can fulfill the duties of an NCO and has the right authority

Response by SPC Jim Silveira made Aug 31 at 2015 7:44 PM

SPC Jim Silveira — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:44:46 -0400

I was a PAC clerk in the 80's as a secondary. The answer is as follows-

A CPL is an NCO, and has to be laterally appointed, and also in a leadership role. I can agree that the PLDC aspect certainly cements the lateral appointment.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 7:58 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 19:58:11 -0400

E-4 mafia alive and well, were not NCO's, we hide from them, and solve problems in an unofficial capacity, and we maintain plausible deniability.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 10:16 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:16:55 -0400

The citation says it all.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2015 11:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:42:34 -0400

For those who don't understand, a SPC is not an NCO, as been told by others. Yet a Corporal is an NCO, and according to rules and regulations can rightfully perform all NCO duties. In the Navy a Petty Officer, even a 3rd class is also considered a NCO therefore "Petty Officer" title. In the Marines, although somewhat a different and yet similar Army structure, once they are Corporal, they are considered NCO, or at least that has been my experience while I was attached to a Marine unit when during my service with the Navy as a HM3.

Response by SGT Vernard Jackson made Aug 31 at 2015 11:45 PM

SGT Vernard Jackson — Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:45:03 -0400

No, an E-4 is only an NCO if they are a corporal which has 2 strips

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 8:38 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Sep 2015 08:38:01 -0400

No. An NCO is a Sergeant or above.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 2 at 2015 8:01 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 08:01:00 -0400

SPC/E4 is not.

Response by SPC Ryan Godles made Sep 2 at 2015 1:20 PM

SPC Ryan Godles — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 13:20:17 -0400

Not at all.

Response by SPC Gregory Wagner made Sep 2 at 2015 10:03 PM

SPC Gregory Wagner — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 22:03:23 -0400

No, the corporal is considered the first rung of being an NCO.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Sep 3 at 2015 10:24 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 10:24:54 -0400

None of the Specialist ranks where considered an NCO to my knowledge. I do know that an CPL/E-4 is. So if a recruiter is telling someone that it is then they need to visit the regs again. Now that is in the army. I do not know if there are E-4 NCO's in the Air Force. Far as that goes what are Petty officers? Are they NCO's?
Now with that being said, the Spc 4/E-4 in a team leader position has the authority of an NCO because of there duty position. It would be as a team leader E-5 telling the team to do something. They may be relating that and confusing the rank and the position.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Sep 10 at 2015 11:48 AM

SPC Donald Moore — Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:48:37 -0400

1SG Private RallyPoint Member has given the absolute answer already. This is not a matter of opinion. It is clearly spelled out in regulations. There are MANY, very many people that are misinformed.

Response by SPC Chance Chappell made Sep 15 at 2015 5:02 PM

SPC Chance Chappell — Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:02:23 -0400

Only if you are laterally promoted to Corporal

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 22 at 2015 12:35 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 22 Sep 2015 12:35:05 -0400

SPC is an enlisted E4. CPL is an NCO.

Response by SPC Robert Chitwood made Oct 7 at 2015 12:10 AM

SPC Robert Chitwood — Wed, 07 Oct 2015 00:10:36 -0400

SPC/E-4 is not a NCO. But a corpral/ E-4 is considered a. junoir NCO
That's why you get two different answers

Response by SSG Eddie “JD” Brown made Oct 22 at 2015 10:43 AM

SSG Eddie “JD” Brown — Thu, 22 Oct 2015 10:43:49 -0400

They can be in an NCO position as section chief but I do not believe unless their has been a change that they are an NCO less they have gone to school for said rank

Response by SPC Robert Willis made Nov 9 at 2015 12:20 AM

SPC Robert Willis — Mon, 09 Nov 2015 00:20:25 -0500

The short answer is, no! A specialist E-4 is not an NCO!

Response by SPC Gregory Frye made Jan 29 at 2017 8:10 AM

SPC Gregory Frye — Sun, 29 Jan 2017 08:10:18 -0500

No, E4 is Enlisted and E5 is a NCO

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2017 12:37 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 12:37:27 -0500

A Specialist/E4 is not a non-commissioned officer (NCO); however a Corporal/E4 is. Today, a corporal shares the same pay grade as a specialist, but is a junior NCO and takes on the responsibilities of a leadership position.

A corporal in the U.S. Army is above specialist and below and is most commonly found in combat arms units and often leads a fire team.

A corporal's roles and responsibilities include the completion of missions and the care of Soldiers.