In your opinion, how has the military changed from the 1960s and 1970s until the present day?

SGT Andrew Anderson — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 13:00:22 -0400

For those of you who have a history with the military, do you think the changes have been beneficial or detrimental?

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Aug 27 at 2021 2:07 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 14:07:00 -0400

No draft has allowed the Military to actually enforce Standards, which all went to hell in hand basket during the McNamara's Morons and Draft Era. I dislike some of the all to PC/Woke BS going on now, but generally the Military grows out of stupidity eventually. I think in general we have much better troops today. (and I have been out 16 years).

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Aug 27 at 2021 2:13 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 14:13:41 -0400

"For those of you who have a history with the military...", a good place to start! Hopefully we can get some folks with several decades of experience to answer since I think the best qualified to offer an opinion for a question like this are those who have been on the inside from then to now (or close anyway. Though there probably aren't too many of those folks around today still in uniform! Everything else is just an outsider's observation and opinion, and there's no guarantee those are really as good as they think they are.

Take myself as an example; I was born in the 70s, so until I 1st put on the uniform in 2009 I only "knew" what I was told about the military by others or what I believed I "knew" from the news and Hollywood (for whatever those sources are worth). It was only after being in, did I come to realize, that I didn't know as much as I thought I did; and even what I did know, it was never anything I had experience with. Living the life is certainly different than simply knowing about it.

I did see some changes in the years I was in, and those were a bit of a mixed bag in terms of whether those changes were good or bad. But now, I would again say the quality of my opinions on the matter are going to be somewhat degraded, having been out of uniform for a few years now.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Aug 27 at 2021 2:50 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 14:50:10 -0400

One thing that has definitely changed for the better: Tobacco use is not recognized as the danger that it really is. Smoking is no longer permitted in Federal Buildings.

Response by PFC David Foster made Aug 27 at 2021 3:35 PM

PFC David Foster — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:35:28 -0400

The military, like everything else, has become computerized and is more efficient. We got the biggest eye in the sky just waiting to unleash all hell... kind of crazy when you think about it.

Response by PO2 Russell "Russ" Lincoln made Aug 27 at 2021 3:43 PM

PO2 Russell "Russ" Lincoln — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:43:54 -0400

A little of both I think. While the overall technical improvements have sped up many aspects of our response to situations the personnel that operate those devices are not always the best physical specimens or the most disciplined. Also the push to put people in billets has led to some undesirable people to be enlisted. I don't think that cell phones belong in recruits hands, they are there to be remade into our nations force for defense, not to be connected to family and friends back home.

I served from 76 to 80 then 85 to 95, and before I got out I was told that I was a dinosaur and that the Navy was now kinder and gentler. All because I expected a junior member to do the job that was assigned to them.

Response by SSG Bill McCoy made Aug 27 at 2021 3:53 PM

SSG Bill McCoy — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:53:01 -0400

The military, particularly the Army, has long been the experimental ground for social change. Some was good (desegregation was particularly overdue though that was in the 50's); others are especially bad like today's "woke" views by the top brass.
Technical training has improved, but Basic Training is virtually a joke. I think they got rid of the "Stress Cards" that recruits could use to fend off their Drill Sgts corrective actions. Cell phones should never be permitted in Basic OR in AIT. I suspect however that with the no longer in use pay phones, the cell phones weret the compromise, but they should have been/should be limited to ONE use to call the parents or SO, then secured by the Drill Sgt's.

Response by SPC David Roberts made Aug 27 at 2021 3:59 PM

SPC David Roberts — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 15:59:24 -0400

I was in the Army in the 70's after Vietnam. In those days the Army was much less technologically advanced. We wore steel pots, body armor was rare, and we carried just plain M16s with iron sights. No knee pads or sunglasses. I think technological improvement is beneficial, but I worry that it might cause character and unity of purpose to be undervalued. I think our recent defeat by the Tailiban should encourage us to see what they had that we didn't.
The Army was less political then. We trained for war. We weren't tasked with fighting climate change or promoting social justice. There was less concern about soldiers' personal preference. It was the Army way or the highway. You frequently heard "That sounds like a personal problem to me." There was a consensus that our being members of a band of soldiers with one central mission overrode considerations of race or ethnicity. I think many of these changes have been detrimental because they distract from the core mission of defeating America's enemies and focusing too much on the individual's wishes detracts from esprit de corps.
Women had a much rawer deal back then. I understand that sexual harassment was much less likely to be taken seriously by the chain of command, and women just had to deal with it themselves. Now the Army takes it seriously. This is definitely beneficial.

Response by 1SG Frank Boynton made Aug 27 at 2021 5:01 PM

1SG Frank Boynton — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 17:01:02 -0400

I can't begin to compare. I served in Vietnam and came home to the VOLAR army. But believe me CONEX counseling was the theme of the day if you screwed up. A lot of old timers NCO's earned their stripes under the old blood strip environment. And they wouldn't hesitate to lay hands on. The Army was changing from straight leg infantry to mechanized. I served my first stateside duty at Ft. Carson. They had the modern barracks, with beer machines in them. That caused a lot of problems for the 1st Sgt. I hated it. I had to do my first re-enlistment to get out if there and go to the 9th Infantry at Ft. Lewis. They were the last Straight Leg Infantry Division in the Army. Had a good life in the military. However as years passed, it got much more lax than I was use to. Did 3 years as a Drill at Ft. Dix, and that was a wake up for me. Only hands on when there was absolutely no one around. But that always got their attention. Compared to what our brave soldiers face today, with the BS rules of engagement, and what's going on in Afghanistan, disgust me. The civilian leadership just hung us out to dry. West Pointers, who you could count on for Duty, Honor, Country, now are political. Those 3 words mean nothing to them. Not like they use to when I was in. By the way, I got out in 1992. Gays were not allowed in the military then, they are now. Enough said.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Aug 27 at 2021 6:45 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:45:48 -0400

Small units of specialized troops are good but the Army is almost without regular troops. Putting several Divisions on a front would be impossible. Even our NATO allies noted the inability ofthe US Forces to advance without overwhelming airpower

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2021 6:50 PM

SP5 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 18:50:44 -0400

SGT Andrew Anderson My world from '59 to '62. Castro hats and starched, tailored fatigues. Cigarettes (nearly explosive due to their packing date) in the C-Rations we got in the field. Not very rigorous physical condition across the ranks. A field first Sgt with DOR of 1943. Half day Saturdays for duty every week. Platoon or squad bay accommodations for E4 and below. Dining facility was still a "mess hall", and our 141 person unit had its own. High rates of alcoholism across the ranks. An 18 year PFC (been something else at some point ) in good standing in the unit.
Poverty level pay. Company ROTC trained officers who behaved more like commissioned draftees. The list goes on.
My observations from the RP posts - improved individual discipline, superior education, both available and implemented. Reasonable pay rates. Physical condition requirements that have to be met. Low to no tolerance for alcohol abuse,, EO and SHARP policies

Response by Capt Sylvia DeBorger made Aug 27 at 2021 7:02 PM

Capt Sylvia DeBorger — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:02:32 -0400

One that means the most to me is the change in dependent rules for females. In the '60's if you were a female, you got a discharge if you were pregnant or had a dependent under the age of 18, married or single. I got a discharge when my son was born. When the rules changed sometime in the '70's, I went back in. When I mention this now, some people are amazed. They have never heard of this.

Response by SPC Robert Bobo made Aug 27 at 2021 7:06 PM

SPC Robert Bobo — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:06:42 -0400

I'm old school 70s military, today it appears that some in military leadership are more concerned with social BS instead of the primary military mission while pandering to the "hyper sensitive and soft"

Response by 1LT Rich Voss made Aug 27 at 2021 7:09 PM

1LT Rich Voss — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 19:09:45 -0400

SGT Anderson - I served in the 60's and 70's, but haven't actually been in the service since 1975. However, my old tank battalion from Germany has a Facebook page, and lots of guys that served from the 70's onward are members. In terms of equipment alone, beneficial. My tank was an M60 (first series) and there were only a few A1's in our battalion. My younger peers had all A1's, then A3's, and finally that M1A1 (and all the newer variants). Many of them actually got to use them in Desert Storm, etc and praised their effectiveness (and space). The only complaint I ever heard was that the ammo was so much heavier. On other topics, food is better..most of them never had C-rations. Clothing seems to be better than the old style fatigues I was used to. And the dreaded paperwork is sure simplified. No longer multiple carbon paper copies of documents that one could never read last one or two pages. Lastly, these newer guys WANT to serve. Many of the guys I served with were draftees and the last place they wanted to be was serving our country. Grateful. that much of that attitude changed with most of them. However, it NEVER did with a few. They paid the price with Art 15s and Courtmartials.

Response by SPC George Allen made Aug 27 at 2021 8:24 PM

SPC George Allen — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:24:23 -0400

Not nearly enough discipline And too much political correctness allowed in the Army.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2021 9:02 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:02:21 -0400

I think as much as things have changed, they've pretty much stayed the same. Good and bad in every era and each era thinks theirs was the toughest and most disciplined. What i will say is SM's now have a wealth of information in their pockets (smartphones) at all times. They are more informed as ever before.

Response by TSgt Glenn Coombes made Aug 27 at 2021 10:03 PM

TSgt Glenn Coombes — Fri, 27 Aug 2021 22:03:03 -0400

Blood is flowing, Biden, how much more will flow

Response by A1C Robert Underwood made Aug 28 at 2021 12:44 AM

A1C Robert Underwood — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 00:44:45 -0400

Depends on who you talk to, sometimes I think more harm than good.

Response by Capt Sylvia DeBorger made Aug 28 at 2021 11:53 AM

Capt Sylvia DeBorger — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 11:53:25 -0400

Some of each.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Aug 28 at 2021 5:05 PM

CDR Terry Boles — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:05:06 -0400

Great question. I served from 1974 to 1980, out for 5-years then re-enlisted until I retired in 2017. Essentially I served from 1974, with brief broken service, until 2017 in three different branches of service. I served enlisted for 17-years and commissioned for 20-years.

I have seen many changes from my initial enlistment at the tail end of Vietnam to every conflict forward to include present day GWOT. Some changes were good, while some I wonder about, and finally some with the changing of time was needed.

I remember early in my shipboard career when you were told to do something, you simply did the task. As time passed and during some early leadership classes it became emphasized to let your subordinates know WHY we need to do this or that task. I'm a firm believer in training others to replace me, as we are all in a brief place, in any point of time and you never know for how long that point of time is. So, depending on the time and place, mission details can be important to pass along. For sure, the all-volunteer force has influenced many of these changes and we do indeed have the greatest military.

Changes of uniforms. It seems like there is a never ending change when it comes to uniforms. I get it with updating BDUs etc to a field uniform that is more sustainable. However, what is it about service specific BDUs, ACUs, OCPs, ODUs, etc; can we not agree to adopt one field sustainable uniform as we did years ago. I remember when the Seabee Commodore was not in favor of the Seabees switching from the "greens" to BDUs during the Gulf War as he liked to tell at a glance who the Seabees were. Those BDUs were so much more comfortable and usable, and we fit in with the rest of the force. What about the minor or drastic changes of service dress uniforms; why, if its not about comfort or improved wearable material. There are lots of opinions about uniforms; some valid and interesting. Always a good conversation.

I remember early in my career seeing foreign military members with long hair, beer and liquor rations aboard ship as the norm; not the exception. We had beards aboard ship, then no more. Now I see pony tails, I'm still undecided about that change since I cannot relate to female hair regs. Part of me wants to say "you" adapt to current regs vs changing regs to accommodate to any particular group(s). We all are here by choice; all volunteers, so follow your employers rules. But I must admit long hair tucked beneath an over sized cover is not any more visually pleasing either. I'm just waiting for the day that men can have beards as the norm. Interesting changes; and I'm sure some cheer and others wonder what's going on.

The more drastic change I have seen over the decades has been retirement pay. We went from Final Pay to some sort of TSP Hybrid. Just like many civilian employers moved away from out right pensions the military has put more and more onus on the service member to help fund their pension. I just know, as a young enlisted sailor or junior officer I would not be able to fully contribute to the TSP for matching funds until at some point years later when my pay increased that allowed me to do this. I honestly think this TSP Hybrid pension plan was developed for those members that leave the service vs. those that make a 20+year career. It seemed to me it was important for those separating to have something to take with them much like a civilian employer 401K. With that being said, those members today that are working on that 20+year career have to invest wisely and be more active with their investments. The old timers like myself also could invest and be just as actively engaged in those investments; but we still had Final Pay or even High-3 which I believe is a much better guaranteed pension. Last comment; every time I hear the services are changing the retirement pension plan you can bet the house on it that it will not be favorable to the service member.

There are many more topics that one could elaborate on with the ever changing times such as responsibility, leadership, and accountability to name just a few and I'm sure more have made comments about these. I look forward to reading other comments and observations as we all see things a bit differently. Regardless, good or bad changes; I'd serve all over again!

Response by MSgt John Taylor made Aug 28 at 2021 5:06 PM

MSgt John Taylor — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:06:55 -0400

My experience (83-09) has been that every improvement has been a doubled edge sword. It seems that something has to be lost in order to have a gain. I do believe that we have to change with the world in order to remain effective.

Response by SSG James Knopp made Aug 28 at 2021 7:59 PM

SSG James Knopp — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 19:59:09 -0400

Technological advances are a must to stay one step ahead of our adversaries.
I served in the active Army from 1971>1974. Back then the Army was going through what they called the Volar Army (volunteer Army). Pay went from $99/month to over $300. The Army was hell bent on changing its image after Vietnam. But, we still lived, and breathed the Army values.
PT was done in a baseball hat, a white T shirt, green khaki pants and black combat boots. Most of all we learned to function with our trusty old map. Map reading was essential to your mission.
Now the services rely too heavily on technology. Basics are still taught but technology is the key. But that can be exploited.
Why do you think the Taliban fair so well in the mountains wearing “man jammies” and sandals. If there ever was a worldly catastrophe the survivors would be the technologically challenged simple living societies.
That being said, there is a place for technology, but be great at basic skills.

Response by COL David Turk made Aug 28 at 2021 9:46 PM

COL David Turk — Sat, 28 Aug 2021 21:46:39 -0400

Started in late ‘71. Senior Officers are in better shape now. Married benefits for married soldiers under E-4 were non existent back then. 3.2 beer on base. PX had basic necessities at a very good price; not an “everything” department store. Commanders still had to approve marriages if overseas (at least by reg). Had to perform KP in basic. Pay was nowhere near where it is today (not considered a professional army). Post commanders had a DEH (Director of Engineering and Housing) to maintain the infrastructure (not farmed out to commercial entities).

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 29 at 2021 1:47 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 01:47:37 -0400

SGT Andrew Anderson Not a Hard Question, I Joined in 1976, Not Long After the Vietnam War. Yes Boot Camp and A-School Challenges Never Change but After. I Reported to Hawaii after that and Reality started setting in. First off the Navy Wouldn't Institute Urinalysis until 1981. Needless to Say Most E-3 thru E-6s were smoking weed some were partaking of Harder Drugs, Most E-7's would be considered Raving Alcoholics today, In Boot Camp they got You Hooked on "Smokes" (Cigarettes) the Only way to Get a Break. The Navy had No PT Program. Wouldn't exist until 1981 when they figured out many Sailors couldn't fit thru an Escape Hatch. The Navy I Retired from in 1997 is Definitely a Healthier More Disciplined Organization than what I Joined in 1976. CTO1 Wm "Chip" Nagel USN(R).

Response by Capt Bruce Bitterman made Aug 29 at 2021 10:02 AM

Capt Bruce Bitterman — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 10:02:03 -0400

Detrimental. Used to be more discipline.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Aug 29 at 2021 1:59 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 13:59:52 -0400

I watched the progression from Vietnam era to all-volunteer force to DESERT STORM while I was on active duty. Over the next 21 years I also watched the military pre- and post-9/11 as a Government Contractor and Army Civilian Employee. So in all I was associated with the military from 1965 through 2013, 48 years.

The biggest change was transition to the all-volunteer force. As Vietnam wound down the Services were required to cut force structure. They used many techniques to shed personnel. Early outs were offered and many took them. Enlistments were delayed. Officers from ROTC were delayed in coming on active duty. USAF Officers brought on active duty were delayed entering pilot training and spent as much as 2 years killing time in a non-flying job. Retention boards were held and some officers were subjected to a Reduction in Force (RIF) with as little as 30 days to get out of the Service. There was no effort to retain enlisted or officer personnel and leadership appeared to have no problem treating personnel poorly. Some Service Members chose to "help" the Services reduce manpower. They used illegal drugs, abused alcohol, and committed minor crimes to get themselves forced out of the military. The Services were only too glad to oblige.

Then came the all-volunteer force in the late 70s. The pendulum swung the other way. Leadership had to quit treating people poorly because retention and recruiting became a big thing. The Services were given more money for pay increases, better training, and new equipment. Women were integrated more completely into the Services. The Services began to pay attention to minority recruiting. A series of programs were implemented to reduce discrimination based on race, sex, religion. A long list of "firsts" happened such as first African-American General (O-10), first female General (O-10), first female Air Force pilots and navigators since WWII WASPs, who then became first female fighter pilots, flying Squadron Commanders, flying Wing Commanders, General Officers, etc.

Despite all these positive changes, the stench of a perceived loss in Vietnam was still on the Services. Then the USSR disintegrated and the Berlin Wall came down. It began to look like we were winners after all. The Cold War continued with less intensity for another decade. The Services continued engagement in various hot spots. Nation building was underway in Central America, Africa, and the Middle East. Forces were reshaped based on the decreased need to respond to rival Superpowers. When Iraq invaded Kuwait, the US and its allies were brought into the conflict. We moved what seemed like over half of the US military to Saudi Arabia and neighboring countries. We quickly overwhelmed the Iraqi military. In many ways we redeemed ourselves for the loss in Vietnam. The military regained its reputation with the American public.

After DESERT STORM, the military reverted to a peacetime military. Many of the changes started by Goldwater-Nichols act grew in importance after DESERT STORM. Unified Commands gained power and the Services lost some. USSOCOM was the first unified command with its own budget for equipment, decreasing the power of the Services to "train, organize, and equip." USTRANSCOM gained control of its Service Components during peace and war. The Geographical Combatant Commands continued to exercise strong combatant command of their Service Components. USPACOM became more powerful and political focus shifted from Europe to the possibility of war in Korea and a healthy distrust of China. Then the terrorists attacked the US on 9/11/2001.

The US military found itself unable to quickly retaliate against the terrorist threat. Their forces were not positioned to mount a military response to terrorists in south-central Asia. By 2003 however, things heated up and US Forces moved into Afghanistan.

Response by SSgt Roland Atwell made Aug 29 at 2021 5:19 PM

SSgt Roland Atwell — Sun, 29 Aug 2021 17:19:59 -0400

detrimental!

Response by SPC David Roberts made Aug 31 at 2021 12:14 AM

SPC David Roberts — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 00:14:00 -0400

"I don't know, but I've been told,
the songs we sang are now so old.
The knights so bold don't need their socks,
The prettiest girl now has grey locks.
Airborne daddy gonna take a little trip,
To get himself a replacement hip.
Stooping over with joints no good,
They would laugh in Hollywood.
These days I avoid all danger,
I've become a chairborne ranger."

Response by TSgt Glenn Coombes made Aug 31 at 2021 9:41 AM

TSgt Glenn Coombes — Tue, 31 Aug 2021 09:41:05 -0400

Nothing has really changed. Politicians keep getting involved with the capabilities of our military. Doing right for freedom vs trying to get ahead