If you saw a foreign national/refugee in America exercising open carry, how would you react?

2015-05-16T22:37:39-04:00

There was a recent YouTube post about police reaction based on the color of an individual exercising open carry privilege. The discussion moved to what would happen if confronted with Achmed carrying his AK slung in San Antonio...
Then it hit me, there are enough veterans that seeing someone walking around in a man dress with an AK has been normalized by our overseas tours, that it may not even register that it was out of place until someone brought it to our attention.

How long would it take you to realize what was out of place?

Response by GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad made May 17 at 2015 5:42 AM

2015-05-17T05:42:38-04:00

Frankly, if I saw ANYONE walking down the street with an AK (or similar weapon) slung over their shoulder, I would be calling 911.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 17 at 2015 5:50 AM

2015-05-17T05:50:45-04:00

I would call 911 to report suspicious behavior.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made May 17 at 2015 8:14 AM

2015-05-17T08:14:03-04:00

If open carry was legal in my state I would likely not call unless something looked out of place. Does a foreign national have the right to open carry if it is the law in the state they happen to reside? I am not sure and feeling to lazy to look it up this morning.

CW2 Joseph Evans. The percentage of the US population that has been to Iraq and Afghanistan is pretty small.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made May 17 at 2015 8:43 AM

2015-05-17T08:43:26-04:00

So, I think I ran down in detail my response levels to someone carrying in different states on a different post but BLUF: anyone with a slung rifle gets a call to 9-11 and my rapid departure from the area. Anyone with a rifle in hands or on front/three point/single point sling merits a firm grip on my pistol, assume cover, find a covered and concealed exit, and call 9-11. Firing merits return fire as tactically plausible.

Response by SGT Robert R. made May 17 at 2015 9:11 AM

2015-05-17T09:11:46-04:00

Seems like anti-gun, anti 2A, supporter trying to bait a conversation with some bigoted bull crap to me. The best answer for this question is to understand the posters true intent of asking the question frame the way it was framed.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made May 17 at 2015 9:19 AM

2015-05-17T09:19:33-04:00

I'm a little curious on how you know someone is a "foreign national/refugee"

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 17 at 2015 9:24 AM

2015-05-17T09:24:30-04:00

If it look suspicious i'll call 911, I don't want to make it look like another baltimore riots just because of how the individual skin/race/culture. Is fine by me if he carry ak47, i see many individual carry ar-15, the weapon is just tjey choice, if they allow to carry then is fine by me.
I don't assume if someone from another culture carry a mossin nagant or a ak as a suspicious individual.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made May 17 at 2015 9:29 AM

2015-05-17T09:29:35-04:00

I'm personally not too fond of open carry, but if it's legal in that state, I would leave it alone.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 12:38 PM

2015-05-17T12:38:40-04:00

CW2 Joseph Evans , it wouldn't take me a split second to call 911. It doesn't matter to me what nationality they are. If I see a AK on anyone's shoulder, it's 911 for me. I once saw a guy walking down a busy street, here in Padadena, in full cammo, with face paint, carrying a machete in one hand and a Bowie type knife in the other. I stopped a patrol car and told the cop what I saw. Know what he did? Nothing? He didn't even make a report. I mean, that seemed pretty suspicious to me. BTW, he was Caucasian, which didn't matter a hoot to me.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made May 17 at 2015 1:34 PM

2015-05-17T13:34:28-04:00

More people get killed in car accidents than by gunfire every year. Do you want someone to call the police on you for driving your car, because it's potentially dangerous?
Unless I absolutely know the person carrying is not naturalized then I would either leave them alone or I would strike up a firearms friendly conversation. I enjoy open carry from time to time. Anyone else who is legal to do so should be able to unhindered.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2015 1:53 PM

2015-05-17T13:53:14-04:00

In a state that allows open carry (such as Texas allows open carry of rifles), why would someone in a man dress with an ak be out of place? That seems like racial/religious profiling to me. I dunno, I could be mistaken but assuming that's out of place seems wrong to me.

Response by TSgt David L. made May 17 at 2015 4:53 PM

2015-05-17T16:53:59-04:00

With the way our borders are wide open how could you know the status of the person? I understand the question and am up on a small soap box, but the entire ISIS army could come across and we'd have no way of knowing who's who...

Response by SGT Dylan Epp made May 17 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-05-17T16:59:39-04:00

As long as he/she isn't on a moto or a white pick up truck I'd be fine hahaha.

Response by MSG John Wirts made May 17 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-05-17T17:22:46-04:00

I say all people should be reported in areas where carry is not allowed, that includes Sen DIFI, and Mr Bloomberg. They should not be allowed to carry or have armed guards, if they espouse the thought that our society will be safer unarmed! In the case of a suspicious person(s), probable alien, or suspected gang members brandishing weapons, call 911, I do agree if I embellish the report, ie say brandishing when only legally carrying, the person(s) making the false report should be charged with making a false report and handled accordingly!

Response by PFC Alex Rivers made May 17 at 2015 7:42 PM

2015-05-17T19:42:01-04:00

Unless they had their weapon shouldered and ready to fire, I'd probably take up conversation about it. I give everyone benefit of the doubt, until I'm given reason to believe otherwise.

Response by SFC Robert Wheeler made May 17 at 2015 8:38 PM

2015-05-17T20:38:34-04:00

I hate hypotheticals because how one reacts to one situation might be very different than how one performs in another. I mean, you have to make a series of decisions through direct observation. Each outcome could be radically different.

Response by SSG Bruce Booker made May 20 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-05-20T15:46:31-04:00

I am a Vietnam veteran and a veteran of a 37-year law enforcement career (retired). I live and worked in an open carry state. I know that everyone might be armed even if I don't see a weapon. I've seen a lot of people with guns. Some were a threat to me and to other people, some were not. My reaction in this case would depend on the complete picture, not just on the guy's apparent nationality, the way he is dressed, or what gun he is carrying. Those things are only part of the picture.

I recently saw a man dressed 'business casual' walking in a business/shopping district around lunchtime with a pistol in a holster in plain sight on his belt. While that is not common, I didn't think much of it other than it was unusual and caught my attention. (I did note that he did not have a badge on his belt.) If I had seen the same man walk into a bank wearing a ski mask and carrying a shotgun my reaction would have been very different.

My reaction in this case should depend on a lot more than just whether it was Achmed or Billy Bob, whether he was wearing man jams or a Brooks Brother suit, whether he was carrying an AK on a sling or a Glock in a holster.

(If I thought this guy needed more attention, I would call 911 and find a place where I could safely keep him under observation. Let professionals with the proper training and equipment deal with him. I lived through a year in Vietnam and 37 years in law enforcement. I don't want to change that now.)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2015 5:20 PM

2015-05-20T17:20:12-04:00

I live in Arizona, so I'd just assume he was trying to blend in with the locals. The only thing unusual would be the outfit... I'd probably try to chat with him a little just to make sure that he wasn't under mental duress.

Response by LCDR Graham Cornwell made May 21 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-05-21T12:22:23-04:00

First 911 then start Intel collection on the scene..

Response by Sgt Frank Rinchich made May 21 at 2015 3:43 PM

2015-05-21T15:43:15-04:00

Lets face it , we have been and still in a war with middle eastern people, I see nothing wrong with profiling , foreign national not an American citizen should not have a carry permit to start with. and if they looked the part, I would call 911, if he is an American citizen and he knows what this country is facing , he should be educated enough to know and understand why he was stopped. If he can't understand then to hell with him, at least the police will know he is permitted or not to carry, better safe then sorry.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 4:18 PM

2015-05-21T16:18:42-04:00

Well let's use poor English on this one. OK let me say just for me , just let 'ME' and me alone use poor English on this one. So first off never walk over to a person looking like that and holding something like that in his hands. But as a former U.S. Armed-Forces member. If i were out walking around in the community or going someplace and this situation happen to me. It's the Drill instructor mind set that takes over.
Meaning i would see this and my blood would boil over. I would ask this guy , ? who the Hell are you and the F___ do you think your doing sitting there , looking around at me as i pass in that configuration , with that Uniform and that weapon. The fact that there is no Uniform means nothing.
Than as he looks up at me and mumbles something. I relieve him of the weapon and smash him in the face with it. Ask him not to look upon my family like that again as we go shopping and turn him over to the Police. You know why ??, No Reason , No Reason at all.

Response by PO1 Chad Alcock made May 21 at 2015 4:30 PM

2015-05-21T16:30:19-04:00

How are we to determine that they a foreign national / refugee? This would be just an assumption on our part based on their appearance. Who's to say they aren't a US Citizen exercising their Constitutional Rights? We joined the military to protect those rights.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2015 6:12 PM

2015-05-21T18:12:21-04:00

I would acknowledge him/her and press on like normal since I'd be strapped too!

Response by MSgt Leonard Ward made May 21 at 2015 7:21 PM

2015-05-21T19:21:08-04:00

The fact that he is openly carrying is not a problem to me if he is in an open carry state. The question itself is flawed and is a subtle attempt to race bait. There is no way to know if this individual is a legal naturalized citizen or an undocumented or illegal/refugee. I have always found that civil communication solves many perceived or hyped problems.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made May 21 at 2015 7:23 PM

2015-05-21T19:23:51-04:00

There is no possible way to know this guys intentions. It may be out of place or uncommon, but is it illegal? If it is illegal, call 911. If you're not familiar with the type of weapon they're carrying, maybe strike up a conversation.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made May 21 at 2015 7:37 PM

2015-05-21T19:37:24-04:00

I do know a few Muslims, but I can't say I've seen too many walking around wearing a dishdasha. I've considered a social experiment involving me growing facial hair and walking around my little town wearing my dishdahsa and keffiyah, but I suspect that wouldn't go over well.

Honestly, if I DID see a guy wearing traditional Middle-Eastern garb and carrying a Kalashnikov, I'd probably be interested, but not necessarily concerned. Unless I see hostile intent and simply see a person carrying a weapon, I'm going to initially assume they are doing so legally. Being the talkative sort, I'd probably go talk guns with the guy and make conversation, and thus get a better feel for the guys intent.

I mean, is a terrorist with intent to harm others going to make pleasant conversation with an "infidel?"

And if by some small chance he DID have hostile intent, I would be ready to respond in kind.

Response by SFC Maury Gonzalez made May 21 at 2015 7:48 PM

2015-05-21T19:48:56-04:00

Aren't we supposed to be us citizens to own guns, have a government issued identification and ssn card to register weapons and open carry

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2015 7:07 AM

2015-05-22T07:07:39-04:00

It depends on how he/she was acting. Now that I realize this was actually a comment here and not on the actual answer, I will elaborate. If he/she was acting in a threatening or suspicious manner, then I would call 911. If they were relaxed, finger no where near the trigger and completely calm, then I would hope I realized what they were doing. I have never seen an open carry or been deployed, so I would hope I would act accordingly.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made May 22 at 2015 8:19 AM

2015-05-22T08:19:25-04:00

Honestly, I'm not sure, but I support open carry, so I probably would not even engage the person. A right is a right, but vigilance is also the cornerstone of freedom, so I'd keep my eyes open to the situation around me.

Response by SCPO Lee Pradia made May 22 at 2015 8:33 AM

2015-05-22T08:33:23-04:00

In Texas, one can open carry long rifles and shotguns, however, if the individual carrying the rifle would cause a resonance person to become suspicious, then the police would be called. Because a person dresses a certain way doesn't necessarily make them a bad person. Now, the retired me would be suspicious, I would call the police and leave the immediate area. It's just not the norm here in Corpus Christi. Perhaps in the hill country and rural farming areas, then I not sure either way.

Response by 1LT Richard C. made May 22 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-05-22T14:18:03-04:00

The first thing I noticed was the great condition of the gas tank on that little yamaha..would he be willing to sell?

Bikes in better condition than the ak...notice no tears or tape on the seat..

Back on subject, I'm not worried about the open carried. I am more concerned about the contributing factors, are they happy or worried, nervous, irritable, clutching at the weapon or is it just another tool on their belt.

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made May 23 at 2015 1:48 AM

2015-05-23T01:48:28-04:00

Ask him what ammo he likes

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made May 23 at 2015 4:11 AM

2015-05-23T04:11:45-04:00

It is interesting that Marines are most likely to call 911, followed by Army.

Probably has something to do with direct experience.

Response by SR George Kelly made May 25 at 2015 2:02 PM

2015-05-25T14:02:05-04:00

I'd stop and just chat to find out more about the man and would pay no attention to his firearm

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2015 7:57 PM

2015-05-26T19:57:02-04:00

The video in question is a completely inaccurate test of responses. First of all, both individuals carrying the rifles were confronted by 2 completely different police officers generating 2 entirely different responses. Who is to say that the first officer confronting the white guy wouldn't have addressed the black guy in exactly the same manner, and that the 2nd officer wouldn't have addressed the white guy in the same manner as the black guy? In addition, how many other videos did these people shoot where both men were addressed in exactly the same manner by other officers, but weren't published because it didn't display the racial contrast that they wanted?

The white guy had his slung over his back, relatively inaccessible. The black guy had his slung in a single point fashion along his side. Very accessible. These two methods of slinging the weapon would make an impact on the reactions of the officers. This video was clearly designed to invoke the response that police in general are discriminatory.

Response by SSG John Erny made May 26 at 2015 9:14 PM

2015-05-26T21:14:40-04:00

This is the USA, how the hell are you supposed to know that a foreign national looks like? Prime example: Would-Be Victim Pulls Gun On Carjacker: ‘So You Woke Up Stupid This Morning?’

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/22/would-be-victim-pulls-gun-on-carjacker-so-you-woke-up-stupid-this-morning/

“I don’t need a document, and I don’t need another man to explain to me, that I have a right to defend my gift of life.”

“There is an argument in America … from a whole gaggle of numbnuts who would try to tell me that they will dictate where, how, and if I can defend myself. I find that preposterous. I find it unacceptable and I will not accept it.”

“The Second Amendment of our Bill of Rights is my concealed weapons permit, period.”

“I don’t like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders.” ~ Ted Nugent.

Would-Be Victim Pulls Gun On Carjacker: 'So You Woke Up Stupid This Morning?' - Breitbart

Would-Be Victim Pulls Gun On Carjacker: 'So You Woke Up Stupid This Morning?'

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Dec 24 at 2015 12:53 PM

2015-12-24T12:53:52-05:00

I would go home and lock and load. If nothing happened all would be well, if it went south I would be ready. Paranoid...Perhaps. But I would be alive to laugh about it.

Response by SSG James N. made Jan 8 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-01-08T09:01:30-05:00

Like it or not, this will be common in many states in the near future as states move toward what is known as Constitutional Carry. The option of calling 911 is going to be nullified due to the fact that many will be carrying openly or concealed. Kentucky, Texas, Maine, and other states will have either concealed or open carry.
In some states, anti gun people are wasting everyone's time trolling permitted people by calling 911. In many of these cases, the police are just ignoring them when they find the context is a law abiding person. In point of fact, last year, there were over 21,000,000 good background checks that were done for legal purchases of firearms(Latest FBI stats). This is in a total population of 321,000,000 which is 6.5% of the population. 6.5% is a noteworthy number in 321,000,000.
For those of you who say an AK, or an AR does not belong in the hands of the people, I say that you are very wrong. Having lived by three military bases, where the so called goblins who are doing the home invasions are one, a team of there to five, two, wearing IBA etc type armor, and four, armed, the only way to defend against that IS with a high capacity AR, AK, or shotgun. Your five round or ten round magazine will run out and you will still have one to two bad guys left to fight. Yes, when someone comes up top the house and kicks in the door, there is still time to grab a gun and fight. This is fact, not supposition. 5 cases near Fort Drum, NY in 2009, six here near Ft Campbell over the past 4 years, several near Ft Bragg over the past few years.
To those of you who think your liberal college professor gave you true context to the Bill of Rights, did they also tell you that there was only one version truly authenticated by the author? No, they did not. When this is brought up in class, the professor is shown to be a small voice in a crowd of people who can actually read and understand what our forefathers wrote, and it's context. I gave my entire class a large selection of works to read the papers from Locke through Jefferson, Adams, Washington, and Franklin to see teh true context of the works of these men along with their thoughts on our inalienable rights as people, and our free state of being. Sometimes Political Science professors are nothing more than politically correct activists, who on a political behavior chart are very close to tyranny. Freedom and Liberty are at 12, Tyranny is at 6, moderate left and right are at 9 and 3, and Politically Correct Activists and Tea Party Activists are at 7 and 5 respectively. Knowing where your professor stands politically in any class is a must if you want to survive college without someone trying to brainwash you with politically correct garbage.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2017 12:17 PM

2017-04-11T12:17:24-04:00

That weapon in the photo does not qualify as a long gun as it does not have a but stock therefore by law it has to be in a holster and clearly it is not therefore he is illegally carrying such a weapon and needs to be arrested and deported as a terrorist at the very least

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 31 at 2018 7:02 PM

2018-03-31T19:02:38-04:00

In San Antonio- (based on the fact that I was raised in Mexico and came to this country when I was in 2nd grade -trying to learn/speak English- despite my last name, which is anglo) I would say it looks like just any other Mexican to me. I dumb one cause if you really want some firepower you don't buy an AK-47.

Response by MSG Gary Gallenstein made Apr 19 at 2018 5:02 PM

2018-04-19T17:02:37-04:00

CMSgt , open carry is legal a few places. My problem is what safe and law do they know. But I disagree with you weapon not allowed. I served 23 yrs retired in 1995. I am very comfortable with military rifes. Not so much as civilian .Thank goodness armor repair it. But you didn't mentions Safes I use four in my home. If someone doesn't they are not responsible.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 29 at 2018 10:05 AM

2018-04-29T10:05:15-04:00

Thanks to 4 conflicts, PTSD- I notice almost everything around me- seeing open carry gets closer scrutiny- Is individual, calm, collected- not resting hand on firearm- seems to be sane/normal- then move on. Oh is it a carry free zone

Response by SPC Michael Moore made Jun 3 at 2018 5:59 PM

2018-06-03T17:59:23-04:00

If it's a open carry state, and they are non-threatening, open carrying. Then its obvious that they are more than likely legit. And have followed all laws to be able to open carry in the first place.

Response by Sgt Ken Minter made Nov 11 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-11-11T23:21:30-05:00

Let law enforcement verify that this person has a permit.

Response by SGT Xenophon Garcia made Dec 24 at 2018 8:00 AM

2018-12-24T08:00:11-05:00

All I see wrong with this picture is that his rifle is too short to be legal.