SGT Private RallyPoint Member 5308554 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Is it even worth it to keep fighting at that point? 2019-12-05T00:37:10-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 5308554

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Is it even worth it to keep fighting at that point?

2019-12-05T00:37:10-05:00 2019-12-05T00:37:10-05:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 5308576

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You can always request trial by court martial. However, since I have never heard of this particular worded situation, my recommendation is that you seek out JAG for the best legal counsel possible.

2019-12-05T00:47:18-05:00 2019-12-05T00:47:18-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 5308727

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I would seek out legal, but as far as I know (correct me if I&#39;m wrong) but when an official appeal gets denied, then that&#39;s the end of that road. You can always do what SFC Livingston said; request trial by courts martial.

2019-12-05T02:05:12-05:00 2019-12-05T02:05:12-05:00 SFC Casey O'Mally 5308837

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>To me it boils down to this: did you do the thing? If yes, take your lumps. Even if they can&#39;t PROVE you did the thing. Even if you didn&#39;t do that EXACT thing, but something close. If no, did you do something else related? As an example, maybe you weren&#39;t drunk driving, but you WERE texting while driving, which is why you were driving erratically. Take your lumps. <br /><br />If you are COMPLETELY innocent, fight like hell. If necessary, demand CM. But understand that when you go to CM (in the above scenario) they will charge with DUI, but they&#39;ll also charge distracted driving, failure to obey orders, and probably a couple others. (In the above scenario) you will beat the DUI, but not the failure to obey - you were texting and driving. Government hates to lose, so make sure you are airtight before making that demand.<br /><br />I have sat through a couple of Cms. Once as a witness, once as a bailiff. I found the process to be entirely fair on the surface. Accused&#39;s rights were well protected, Jusge was fair and even favored the accused, holding to the &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot; ideal as well as the standard that the burden of proof was on prosecution to prove guilt not on defense to prove innocence. Still, at the end of the day, both SMs were found guilty, not of original offense but a related offense which was tacked on for the CM. (The one I was a witness for had stolen $1000s from me by stealing my checkbook and writing checks in my name. Not found guilty of theft, but WAS found guilty of fraud and of false official statements. The one I was a bailiff for was being tried for improper handling of vaccines (was a medical NCO) and was charged with endangering Soldiers. Was acquitted of that, but still found guilty of doctoring medical records and (I forget the wording) basically being a bad leader.) The trials were fair, the judge protected the accused. The defenses were rigorous. But the game is setup to make sure the government wins. So if you aren&#39;t COMPLETELY innocent, just take your lumps.

2019-12-05T04:51:43-05:00 2019-12-05T04:51:43-05:00 MSgt Michael Smith 5309312

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Why did you agree to the Article 15? Why not take it to Court Martial under the UCMJ. You accepted punishment in lieu of a trial. One can argue that such action does not necessarily imply guilt or innocence, but still, it says something...

2019-12-05T08:05:41-05:00 2019-12-05T08:05:41-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 5309394

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>An Article 15 is non judicial. If you wanted a judicial proceeding, then you should have chosen a court martial. Non judicial punishment gives Commanders wide latitude to use their judgment in cases and doesn&#39;t adhere to rules of evidence as strictly as a court martial.

2019-12-05T08:30:14-05:00 2019-12-05T08:30:14-05:00 MSG Gary Eckert 5309664

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Your options are pretty limited. You could try and convince the Commander that imposed the punishment to set aside or suspend part or all of the punishment. Since this is a field grade Article 15 unless it was imposed by one of the few company level Commands that have a MAJ for a Commander you will need to get the CSM in your corner if you have any hope for success. If it is a MAJ Commanding a Company then you will need to get the 1SG&#39;s endorsement. <br />The only administrative relief that I can think of would be to request the action be removed from your records. <br />The Commander that imposed the Article 15 can do this but the standard for to do so is pretty high. There would need to be exculpatory evidence. <br />You could also apply to the DA Suitability Evaluation Board to move the record from your performance fiche. Generally, the won&#39;t act until sufficient time has passed to show the punishment served the purpose.<br />Finally, you petition the Army Board for Correction of Military Records. Similar to asking the Commander, you will need to show an injustice occurred.<br />At this point, you cannot request trail by Court Martial.

2019-12-05T09:44:21-05:00 2019-12-05T09:44:21-05:00 SGM Bill Frazer 5310107

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>You can try to appeal one level higher, but you accepted NJP, instead of court proceedings, so you are probably stuck with the results

2019-12-05T11:34:13-05:00 2019-12-05T11:34:13-05:00 CPT William Jones 5819207

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>See Jag but I don&#39;t think you have a leg to stand on if all the procedures were followed Ie you were told what could happen that you could refuse and that you could be court martialed etc. All that is in the paperwork you signed. Assume you did have access to JAG . One lesson for everyone here is read any document you sign and in military keep a copy for yourself The military has little creatures that go around erasing things from files. WE had a LT when I was in First AD long ago used to throw away His receipts walking out the door. Came in to S4 to get only a field table. He didn&#39;t read things and signed for an M60 tank also and pitched his copy it did not have tank on it, Second copy to signer back then. When asked about tank he had a problem. Best kept secret in Battalion.Bn Co ordered report of survey found him responsible. Kept Lt in dark about the April fool for about two months Had an officers call on April first CG called him to head table handed him his copy of hand receipt(S4 pulled it from trash) and in front of entire officer in Div gave the Lt all the paperwork. Lesson learned I supposed. I saw him4 yrs later and he was reading and saving everything then

2020-04-26T14:35:37-04:00 2020-04-26T14:35:37-04:00 2019-12-05T00:37:10-05:00