SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1257366 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div> 2016-01-25T11:05:40-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1257366

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2016-01-25T11:05:40-05:00 2016-01-25T11:05:40-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1257385

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>By definition, it would be a record APFT, so the answer is absolutely and unequivocally yes.

2016-01-25T11:11:29-05:00 2016-01-25T11:11:29-05:00 MSG Jamie Coleman 1257406

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>yes you should be flagged and if I were the BN CSM I would have the supervisor, 1SGT and Squad leader in my office explaining to me why this Soldier wasn't prepared for his APFT.

2016-01-25T11:15:27-05:00 2016-01-25T11:15:27-05:00 SGM Private RallyPoint Member 1257407

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes, absolutely. If you did not have a record APFT within the last 4 months then it's 100% on that Soldier.

2016-01-25T11:15:28-05:00 2016-01-25T11:15:28-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1257412

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Why put someone up for school when you know they are struggling with passing a PT test?

2016-01-25T11:17:42-05:00 2016-01-25T11:17:42-05:00 SSG David McPherson 1257419

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Well gee if you don't know the answer to that question you shouldn't be going to any NCOES course

2016-01-25T11:21:30-05:00 2016-01-25T11:21:30-05:00 SSG John Caples 1257425

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yep that is a roger

2016-01-25T11:22:14-05:00 2016-01-25T11:22:14-05:00 SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz 1257442

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If I'm not mistaken you only get flagged after failing a third time.

2016-01-25T11:28:49-05:00 2016-01-25T11:28:49-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1257486

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>By regulation, you cannot be flagged due to failing a schools PT test. Your unit is responsible for you going to that school, If your company First Sergeant does not want to take the heat round for you missing a seat another Soldier could have used the he/she will make it mandatory that you take another one within that 30 day window prior to school start date (preferrable the following week).

2016-01-25T11:46:34-05:00 2016-01-25T11:46:34-05:00 SSG Byron Hewett 1257520

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Was the PT test a record test if yes if not no. you should pass an APFT with a 70% in each category along with your height and weight to ensure you can pass the APFT when you reach your school.<br />you can a APFT any time you want there is nothing that says otherwise the set official test is still required, but you can to a diagnostic as many times as you want if you score that 70% in each category then have your tester count it but if you do that do it at least 2 weeks prior to going to the school at the latest and no more that 30 days out or what ever the schools SOP and your unit SOP says, because things may differ from school to school and unit to unit.

2016-01-25T11:55:05-05:00 2016-01-25T11:55:05-05:00 SSG Audwin Scott 1257524

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That would be a big Roger that!

2016-01-25T11:57:00-05:00 2016-01-25T11:57:00-05:00 LTC Private RallyPoint Member 1257537

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The standards for &quot;passing&quot; a PT test are ridiculously low. I&#39;m a reservist and I must admit that there have been times in the past where I didn&#39;t do any PT for several months and was still able to pass a PT test. What kills me is that I am 52 and have torn up knees. I have a P2 profile so I do the 2.5 mile walk and I regularly see guys that are 1/2 my age that run almost as slow as I walk.

2016-01-25T12:05:25-05:00 2016-01-25T12:05:25-05:00 CPT Mark Gonzalez 1257550

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In my company my first sergeant would initiate the bar process, because if you cannot pass the APFT for the school you cannot attend the pme you need to advance in your career.

2016-01-25T12:12:24-05:00 2016-01-25T12:12:24-05:00 CSM Private RallyPoint Member 1257679

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I am sure a passing APFT is on your pre execution checklist. Therefore taking said APFT would be considered "record". Failure would result in being flagged. I would then have your sponsor/squad leader join you in my special population PT program.

2016-01-25T13:00:47-05:00 2016-01-25T13:00:47-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1257788

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes. It is the Soldiers responsible to be ready for the APFT. There is accountability on the part of the Chain of Command as well though.

2016-01-25T13:43:12-05:00 2016-01-25T13:43:12-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1257933

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes

2016-01-25T14:49:13-05:00 2016-01-25T14:49:13-05:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 1258009

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Depends, how long was it since the last record APFT?

2016-01-25T15:32:55-05:00 2016-01-25T15:32:55-05:00 SGT Kristin Myers 1258182

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>From my past experiences, Soldiers would take a BN PT test for school and if failed, retake the next time it is offered.

2016-01-25T17:02:08-05:00 2016-01-25T17:02:08-05:00 SGT Bryon Sergent 1258199

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>No. You passed Army Standard of the 180, but didn't meet the Battalions requirement 210. all you did was fail the requirements that battalion set for the school.

2016-01-25T17:11:58-05:00 2016-01-25T17:11:58-05:00 SSG Todd Halverson 1258200

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>With our a doubt, someone should be flagged for failing a record APFT

2016-01-25T17:13:32-05:00 2016-01-25T17:13:32-05:00 SSG Daniel Miller 1258248

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The right answer is yes, a FLAG should be initiated. Whomever was taking this APFT for school should have been evaluated in a diagnostic APFT prior to the record APFT being given. Aside from this Soldier/NCO failing him/herself by not meeting the standard, their supervisor failed them by not only allowing them to be in the condition to fail the APFT, but also for allowing it to happen to where the BN CSM is instantly aware of it.

2016-01-25T17:42:17-05:00 2016-01-25T17:42:17-05:00 SSG Clarence Blackburn 1258924

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Yes if you fail a PT Test for a school you will be flagged it is a record Test. Also you should have been prepared so you wouldn't fail it. Remember the Six (6) P's SGT, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

2016-01-26T05:54:03-05:00 2016-01-26T05:54:03-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 1258972

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you fail a record APFT even at the company level you should be flagged. Hell, I've seen people get flagged for failing a diagnostic even though I don't think you're supposed to be able to do that.

2016-01-26T06:43:53-05:00 2016-01-26T06:43:53-05:00 1SG Private RallyPoint Member 1259200

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I see a comment that concerns me. A NCO that may know your situation said you passed by Army standard but , not by your battalion standard. Are you being flagged for not meeting a battalion standard? Also,are you claiming the battalion has made a standard other than what the Army has made in black and white.

2016-01-26T09:09:21-05:00 2016-01-26T09:09:21-05:00 SGM Erik Marquez 1259419

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was in charge of 1CD Schools as part of my duties as the G3 SGM, that was the directive.. But as always, it is the unit commander that has to make that call. <br />Yes, that Bn PT test was a record APFT. given at the direction of a commander, organized and graded by those approved to do so. <br />If the SM failed a record APFT, the correct action assuming no mitigating circumstances ( Never failed a previous one + "Sir I was puking all night, ate some bad Gas station Sushi for lunch, dumb I know.. I'll take another on Friday and MAX as usual" + leadership views the SM as a honorable, does the right thing when no one is looking Soldier... that SM gets a pass till Friday.... <br />Otherwise, get the flag in process.. Its a no harm no foul deal if the SM clears the issue in a week, month. Flag once lifted leaves no derogatory information / issue behind.

2016-01-26T10:34:30-05:00 2016-01-26T10:34:30-05:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 1260109

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This is a Q best answered by a 1SG, and I would have to double check the reg if you were my Soldier, but yes. It is a record PT test, so you get flagged. Good news is you can retake it, pass, and lift flag with no follow on period of probation you would have if you failed tape.

2016-01-26T14:51:32-05:00 2016-01-26T14:51:32-05:00 SFC William Swartz Jr 1260134

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I guess my question to the OP is did the individual fail to meet the Army standard for the APFT or merely fail to meet a BN standard in order to attend said school? If they failed to meet the Army standard then yes a flag should be initiated for failing the APFT; if however the individual failed to achieve the BN standard but met the Army standard, then no, no flag should be initiated.

2016-01-26T14:59:45-05:00 2016-01-26T14:59:45-05:00 SGM Private RallyPoint Member 1262746

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>That depends. Was the test a diagnostic? As a BN CSM, I administered diagnostic tests for Soldier preparing for NCOES. No, I couldn't flag them for the failure, but I used the difference between a record and diagnostic to my advantage. Failing a diagnostic has different procedures than failing a record. So I can continue to administer additional diagnostic tests to the point that it is obvious the Soldier will not pass prior to NCOES. This was long process. I would test at the 90, 60, 30 at a min if they passed and increase the frequency if they didn't. If they didn't pass a diagnostic by the 30 day mark, I would give a record and use that to have them dropped from school and initiate the flag. Most of the Soldiers I had to drop were from injuries. I only really exercised the plan a few times for diagnostic failures. I have been accused of being too nice by some of my peers, but I want to afford every opportunity for Soldiers to be successful.

2016-01-27T16:21:02-05:00 2016-01-27T16:21:02-05:00 SPC Dominque Lee 1263274

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was told any PT test that is recorded on a PT card, is considered a record PT test.

2016-01-27T19:37:09-05:00 2016-01-27T19:37:09-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1265598

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Please specify the following.<br /><br />1. Was this APFT conducted as part of your Battalions SOP as a requirement to ensure Soldiers are qualified to attend a NCOES course. Does that SOP define a expectation not reflected in army regs?<br />2. Has the Soldier been counseled concerning his/her inability to meet standards outlined in Army regulations?<br />3. Does he/she have a clear, supervised, goal oriented, plan of action addressing his need to improve?<br /><br />The key here is to understand why the Soldier was flagged. The APFT is one of the few easily quantifiable indicaters of both performance and potential. At any time, Soldiers are expected to meet clear standards. If they can't, it is every commanders responsibility to ensure proper actions are taken. In this case the first step is a Flag. It has the following effect.<br /><br />1. Ensures extremely precious resources are not wasted on Soldiers who are unqualified.<br />2. Serves as a Soldiers notification that the command is aware of and activly enforcing regulations.<br />3. Motivates an otherwise well rounded Soldier to improve.

2016-01-28T17:34:44-05:00 2016-01-28T17:34:44-05:00 CPL Richard Flagg 1265992

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If said soldier fails BN PT then perhaps some remedial PT is in order to raise this soldier's PT performance.

2016-01-28T20:22:35-05:00 2016-01-28T20:22:35-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1268823

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>APFT for schools are diagnostic, according to the pre-execution checklist, and aren't subject to flag. In my experience most BDE and above CSM do not like to have record APFT within 30 days of the course start date since this causes flags and intelligibility for the course. I'm mainly speaking about BLC. I've had a lot of experience with the WLC/BLC process doing schools for 6 years. BLC commandants have said that no Soldier will do a record APFT within 30 days of course start date. I've seen the USAREUR CSM get involved with a company commander for deciding to give a record APFT to a Soldier known to fail an APFT but have to go to WLC because of the OML process. Personally I think it's BS.

2016-01-30T11:27:21-05:00 2016-01-30T11:27:21-05:00 SGT Maximo Sebastian 1268956

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>As a leader you should know when you soldiers are ready for the next level. You train and mentor them everyday. How you possibly could miss that. Is not rocket science. Is just take a lil bit of dedication and really belive in your soldiers and that you as a leader can make it happen.

2016-01-30T12:22:00-05:00 2016-01-30T12:22:00-05:00 SGT Private RallyPoint Member 1270434

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>NO!!!! The company, battalion and brigade test before a school are diagnostic tests, given to assess if a soldier is capable of meeting the standard. Based on the results, a soldier will or will not be sent to school.

2016-01-31T01:38:27-05:00 2016-01-31T01:38:27-05:00 SFC Private RallyPoint Member 1271521

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When I was in the Training room, the APFT for schools was always classified as diagnostic. In that event no, but if your schools SOP is that school APFT's will before record, than of course yes. Personally I prefer all APFT be for record so that it resets my clock so to speak.

2016-01-31T17:42:10-05:00 2016-01-31T17:42:10-05:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 1274871

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>A Sgt is a leader and should not fail at PT. I question the unit leadership for even thinking about sending a Sgt to school if the Sgt can't pass PT in flying colors. Lastly if it's a record test and not the first failure then Yes, the Sgt should be flagged.

2016-02-02T09:23:26-05:00 2016-02-02T09:23:26-05:00 2016-01-25T11:05:40-05:00