If you are in a High School ROTC Unit and routinely wear uniform items out in the public and receive free comps, are you stealing valor?

Kacee Howell — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 18:07:54 -0500

My Brother is in an JNROTC Unit at his High School and commonly wears his boots and jackets in public and receives free food and discounts at restaurants. He never asks for these things, but he doesn’t change his wardrobe. I tell him that he is committing Stolen Valor, but what is y’all’s opinion?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2018 6:15 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 18:15:17 -0500

I would say no, but he shouldn't accept the discounts, etc

Response by MSG Mark McClure made Jan 4 at 2018 6:35 PM

MSG Mark McClure — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 18:35:00 -0500

I say absolutely yes since he is not a member of the armed forces. He is a civilian, probably a good one but not a military member yet.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jan 4 at 2018 6:40 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 18:40:11 -0500

I am not familiar with the rules and rules of JNRTC but I would hope they are the same as RC/NG you only wear your uniform at Drills or military activities. If this young man is wearing his Utilities or dress uniform any other time he is asking for trouble which may end up with him being booted from his unit. Worse yet he will run into an Officer or SRNCO that will eat him alive. By being eaten alive that will not be pleasant. Younger Soldiers or NCO may do something old school if they run across him doing this.

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Jan 4 at 2018 6:53 PM

PO1 Rick Serviss — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 18:53:13 -0500

I would say no, not stolen valor. If he is in JNROTC then he probably looks too young to be in the military yet. Some restaurants might have very liberal policy on those discounts. It's on him to accept or not accept the offer.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2018 7:12 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:12:44 -0500

A little torn on this. While not exactly touting that he is a service member, he is receiving free stuff by people having the impression that he is a SM while not trying to stop them. Some would argue that he is stealing valor, while others would not. Personally, I think he is exploiting these places and should stop.....at least because it is the moral/ethical thing to do.

Response by SSG Anthony Balkas made Jan 4 at 2018 7:25 PM

SSG Anthony Balkas — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:25:15 -0500

I would say yes.

Response by CPT Charley Watkins made Jan 4 at 2018 7:35 PM

CPT Charley Watkins — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:35:46 -0500

Your brother is out of line in my view [Captain US Army, RVN 1967-68].

Response by CA Delete D. made Jan 4 at 2018 8:10 PM

CA Delete D. — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 20:10:41 -0500

Ehh.....it's pathetic and ghetto.....but HS kids do dumb shit. It is when he starts receiving free healthcare benefits or access to good jobs reserved for honorably dischsrged vets that it will really be offensive....and illegal.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jan 4 at 2018 8:24 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 20:24:35 -0500

Not exactly the most thrilling of ideas, at least to me, though thst's obviously just my personal opinion, of course...I mean, it just opens up so many questions, kind of unlocking a whole Pandora's Box, if you will...I'll admit I never heard one quite like that, certainly...

Response by PO2 Michael Lee made Jan 4 at 2018 8:32 PM

PO2 Michael Lee — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 20:32:06 -0500

Stolen valor is a big thing for me because my father spent twenty-four years in the navy and had an extensive fruit salad and he earned every one of them. I served in the navy for six years and earned several medals the one I'm most proud of is my national defence and my good conduct. The only ribbon I wear on my chest I did not earn is my Viet nam medal and it because my dad gave it to me because he said I should to honor my friend and family we lost thier

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2018 10:41 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 22:41:20 -0500

Kacee Howell I would not call it stolen valor, but your brother should not be wearing uniform items out in public.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jan 4 at 2018 10:48 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 22:48:09 -0500

Kacee Howell I'm a Private Security Officer, I've gotten the "Police" Discount at McDonalds and Taco Hell more than Once. Never Asked for It. (Usually about 15% Knocked Off). One time I was in Civies and I got the "Police" Discount and I couldn't figure out why, Get to the Window and the Girl said "Oh that is the Seniors Discount" I Liked it Better When they Called it the "Police Discount".

Response by LT Brad McInnis made Jan 4 at 2018 10:52 PM

LT Brad McInnis — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 22:52:36 -0500

I was not allowed to wear my uniform outside of military events and school when I was in NJROTC. What I would say is ask you brother this: If a Wounded Warrior sat across from him, would he feel comfortable telling him or her about this? Probably not... Kacee Howell

Response by MIDN 4/C Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 4 at 2018 11:01 PM

MIDN 4/C Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 23:01:11 -0500

Yes

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jan 5 at 2018 1:27 AM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:27:40 -0500

Hmmm... My local high schools all wear their uni's "out and about" several days during each week. Normally Fridays and Mondays. Never heard of it being illegal to do so. Kids walking home from school may stop at a McDonalds or two on their way home. I see them in stores as well.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2018 2:00 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 02:00:54 -0500

Ok, if it happened unintentionally once in awhile sure no issue there. Sometimes JROTC does public things and sometimes they go to a restaurant as a group or individually before returning to school or going home. I get that and that's ok. He may not be misrepresenting himself by going out and saying he's a Sailor directly but by wearing the uniform items in public he's indirectly misrepresenting himself and he probably knows it at this point.

If he is receiving discounts, first he's not owed them. None of us are owed a discount for serving, we should be humbled to receive them if at all. Second if he's doing this action repeatedly then yes he is stealing valor by misrepresenting himself as a service member.

It's great that he's in the JNROTC, that's awesome and he should be proud to do it. Maybe he joins the Naval Academy or maybe he enlists, or maybe not. Until he signs the dotted line though, he might want to reevaluate what he's doing in public and why. He might end up coming across a salty vet who will chew him out in public.

Response by SPC Christopher Mulrooney made Jan 5 at 2018 2:42 AM

SPC Christopher Mulrooney — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 02:42:05 -0500

He should respectfully inform people that he is a High School JRTC Cadet and is not in the U.S. Armed Forces, if he plans to join then he could say with the intention to join the Armed Forces, he should thank them for the offer and say please offer to actual Veteran or active service members. That's how I would see it.

Response by SPC Rj Wasser made Jan 5 at 2018 11:25 AM

SPC Rj Wasser — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:25:14 -0500

Not even question. He's receiving something for military service he never completed. By all means, share some pics and maybe his profile on FB. I'm sure some of us would LOVE to lecture him on the intricacies of his stupidity.

Response by SFC Steve Christian made Jan 5 at 2018 11:30 AM

SFC Steve Christian — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:30:22 -0500

Probably if he accepts it. As a cadet it's fine if he publicly wears the uniform but cannot present himself as a service member.

Response by SPC Angela Nelson made Jan 5 at 2018 11:32 AM

SPC Angela Nelson — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:32:37 -0500

Pretty close and just as wrong...sure would hate it for him if an actual Veteran busted him out

Response by SSG Joseph Callan made Jan 5 at 2018 11:44 AM

SSG Joseph Callan — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:44:12 -0500

The real question should be are the restaurants in question aware of his status. If they are then it's their choice to give the discounts. If not the the cadet is wrong to take advantage.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2018 11:55 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:55:23 -0500

He should be upfront and tell them he isn't in the military but JROTC. I bet he'd find that he gets most discounts anyway. I wouldn't go out of my way to call it stolen valor but I think a simple explanation to the waiter would clear up any confusion.

Response by SrA Kevin Beggs made Jan 5 at 2018 12:07 PM

SrA Kevin Beggs — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:07:48 -0500

He's not asking. People are making assumptions.
Maybe we should Chase him down and video bash him.
(Why does it bother y'all so much that wanna b's get what you don't ask for. )

Response by SrA Kevin Beggs made Jan 5 at 2018 12:08 PM

SrA Kevin Beggs — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:08:32 -0500

Great answer

Response by SrA Kevin Beggs made Jan 5 at 2018 12:09 PM

SrA Kevin Beggs — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:09:32 -0500

@ PO2 Private RallyPoint Member

Response by 1stSgt Mack Housman made Jan 5 at 2018 12:16 PM

1stSgt Mack Housman — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 12:16:19 -0500

In my mind, this is not a case of Stolen Valor. The young man is evidently proud that he's a part of JROTC and he rightfully should be. However, to accept the gifts is a foul. He should respectfully decline the offer and explain that he is not a veteran and that he would be doing a disservice to those who are if he were to accept. I'm pretty sure that those who are offering the item would understand and have a much greater respect for him. Just my 2C worth.

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Jan 5 at 2018 1:03 PM

Capt Tom Brown — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:03:34 -0500

He is taking advantage of well-meaning others to scam a few free tokens. He should stop it. Not a good indication of what he may be like as he grows older or a good reflection on his upbringing if he would think it 'ok' to act in such a manner.

Response by Lt Col Paul Maxwell made Jan 5 at 2018 1:14 PM

Lt Col Paul Maxwell — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:14:35 -0500

I think you are reaching hard to find issues.
If people are giving courtesies and free meals/discounts to high school kids who are involved in JROTC, that’s nice. If they (the students) are taking steps to pretend they are combat hardened veteran 16-17 y/o’s, that’s a different, and hard to believe, issue.

Response by SFC Greg Bruorton made Jan 5 at 2018 1:15 PM

SFC Greg Bruorton — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:15:01 -0500

Kacee, I believe the actions of your brother is less than honest and of integrity. There are designated days during the school week to wear the uniform and, in my opinion, remnants of the uniform should remain with the complete uniform at home. Receiving discounts in restaurants and elsewhere for wearing parts of his uniform is certainly not right in all aspects. Only you can convince him otherwise.

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 5 at 2018 1:24 PM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:24:41 -0500

He's not in the military technically, but I'm not sure Id call it stolen valor. Honestly I've gotten tired of this stolen valor stuff. I didn't sign up for discounts, and I don't ask for them when I go places so it doesn't bother me when some people lie to get them, I just tell myself they can have my discount for the day. I don't need to confront them or say something to the people I'm with or harass him and put it up on facebook, I know what I did and in his heart of hearts that person knows they haven't earned shit. I'm walking around on two legs and have everything where it should be so I consider myself incredibly lucky, life is far too short to worry about people who aren't as lucky as I am to have known such great people and had so many amazing experiences.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 5 at 2018 1:34 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:34:33 -0500

No. Everyone thinks wearing a uniform is stolen valor. It’s not. If you actually read the law of Stolen Valor Act of 2013, you will see that Stolen Valor is a crime committed by those who would impersonate having received an award in an attempt to obtain money, properly, or other tangible items.

Therefore the ROTC cadet or anyone wearing a uniform is NOT a Stolen Valor case. ONLY those who claim to be awarded MoH, Bronze/Silver Stars, Purple Hearts, etc.

Response by PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM made Jan 5 at 2018 1:58 PM

PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 13:58:20 -0500

First off He better check his 6 because if his Naval Science Instructor ever sees him wearing any part of his Uniform while not in School or at a School Function he will get a foot up his ass! AND He is NOT supposed to be wearing his jacket unless in FULL UNIFORM anyway. He knows that because he has been told that at the start of every semester! He is lucky he has not been caught and kicked out of the Unit! I work with Navy, Air Force and Army JROTC units locally and I know the regulations they expect their students to adhere to. IS he stealing Honor? No because all the Uniforms are distinctly marked with devices and patches identifying them as Junior ROTC but he is deceiving the merchants and stealing from them, Not a good start for a prospective service member.

Response by COL William Oseles made Jan 5 at 2018 3:00 PM

COL William Oseles — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 15:00:54 -0500

No. The patches on their uniform clearly show they are JROTC, not in the military.

Response by Nathan Craig made Jan 5 at 2018 5:12 PM

Nathan Craig — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 17:12:28 -0500

I was in JROTC in high school. Wore my uniform to school on Wednesdays (that was the designated uniform day) and sometimes I would have things to do after school. I would go into town and grab a bite to eat, never offered a discount or anything. But I would reject the discount if offered. I've also had people walk up and thank me for my service. I never really knew how to respond to that so I kept quiet (I'm quiet anyways).

Response by PFC Kevin Crocker made Jan 5 at 2018 7:39 PM

PFC Kevin Crocker — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 19:39:12 -0500

I think that the JROTC should have different uniforms so that they can be differentiated from active duty personnel. If establishments still want to reward their early commitment to service, so be it. But there will be no more mistaken identity. They should stop with the ribbons also. Ribbons are for service merit, not training.

Response by SSG Kacey Fisher made Jan 5 at 2018 9:58 PM

SSG Kacey Fisher — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 21:58:32 -0500

Yes because he hasn’t earned it yet!

Response by Lt Col John Parish made Jan 5 at 2018 10:44 PM

Lt Col John Parish — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 22:44:27 -0500

I teach Air Force JROTC and I do not allow my cadets to wear the uniform outside of our sanctioned activities. If a cadet wants to wear the uniform at some special event they must ask permission and then it’s only given on rare occasions. There have been times when someone has said something to a cadet like, thank you for serving or let me get that for you. I tell my cadets to say thank you or respectfully decline the gesture and explain why. The senior instructor of the JROTC unit that your brother is in should be made aware of this and put a stop to it.

Response by Kim Zeigler made Jan 5 at 2018 11:34 PM

Kim Zeigler — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 23:34:58 -0500

I am the wife of a retired Marine and I have been the Manager in both a sit down restaurant and a fast food restaurant in which we gave military discounts and free meals on Veterans Day. My policy was that my employees were to NEVER ask to see a military ID my thoughts were either they truely are/were military or they were hungry enough to lie about it and in that case they could have the discount/free meal.... Just my thoughts

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2018 6:46 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 06:46:38 -0500

Yes. It is.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Jan 6 at 2018 7:09 AM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 07:09:30 -0500

Okay, the unit should already have rules that should prevent this kind of stuff from ever happening. I was an AFJROTC Cadet throughout high school and it was commonly known that we were NEVER authorized to wear our issued uniforms unless it was a designated occasion for it. If you were going to wear your Dress uniform or Bs then it better be a uniform inspection day at school or an event that has been designated as requiring wear of the uniform. Now, there is nothing wrong with grabbing a bite to eat at lunch or after school while still in uniform, but the discounts should never be gotten. The businesses should be able to tell that they aren't really in the service. I would probably just have a conversation with the Instructor. I'm sure that the issue will be completely taken care of by the unit's instructors.

Response by SPC Tommy Patat made Jan 6 at 2018 2:02 PM

SPC Tommy Patat — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 14:02:03 -0500

Having served in combat, my opinion is as long as he clarifies that he is a ROTC cadet and wears his uniform according to standards, it's nice of the restaurants to discount food. We don't differentiate between us combat veterans and rear detachment veterans. This young man my be training for basic training. This young man is our future. We veterans should lift him up and maybe one day he will be the killer that deserves a free latte. Remember he was issued that uniform with specific guidelines to follow. Support our civic minded civilians.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 7 at 2018 10:14 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sun, 07 Jan 2018 22:14:22 -0500

Kacee Howell I would say no.

I am in my 6th year as a JROTC instructor, and we travel a lot to various competitions.

Our kids, who travel in uniform many times, are often "thanked" for their service and the like, as most folks have no idea who they are. Several times folks have bought their food. Rather than them telling everyone (every time) the real deal, which would be confusing to most, we just tell the kids to say thank you and move on.

The kids, by the way, many of whom are military family members here (80% are), are very embarrassed too, and don't know what to do.

Since we live in an Initial Entry training community, at times they are also stopped by Drill Sergeants... who jack them up about the differences on their uniforms, before they realize they HS kids. That to me is funny.

Now, if a kid were working this to their advantage, that is trying get things free, I would say that was wrong. The examples I have cited above are accidental and of no intentional malice of forethought by the Cadets.

Response by PO1 Matt Grace made Jan 8 at 2018 2:13 AM

PO1 Matt Grace — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 02:13:15 -0500

Hell yes!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2018 8:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 08:14:14 -0500

im saying NO not stolen valour. you say hes wearing his tops okay the top says JROTC(instead of army) and says the name of the highschool instead of unit patch. i will say he shouldnt be wearing jsut the boots and jacket if hes gonna wear it wear full uniform.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 8 at 2018 10:42 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 10:42:44 -0500

Hmm, 1. He should not be wearing parts of his uniform outside JROTC functions. Regular service, someone would be on his case. It's not stolen valor, because he's not asking for the discounts. But it is unethical conduct, to accept these discounts which are for active duty, retired and past service members. Tell him desist at once, or you will report him to his senior JROTC Instructor.

Response by SSG Joseph Riley made Jan 9 at 2018 8:16 PM

SSG Joseph Riley — Tue, 09 Jan 2018 20:16:20 -0500

Getting a discount and not asking for it? I don't see it hurting anything. If he asked for it that's a different story! Hooah

Response by SFC Thomas Plemons made Jan 14 at 2018 11:18 AM

SFC Thomas Plemons — Sun, 14 Jan 2018 11:18:08 -0500

Tell him to stop wearing his uniform when not doing ROTC stuff

Response by CN Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 15 at 2018 2:48 PM

CN Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Jan 2018 14:48:31 -0500

I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily stolen valor but if he plans on joining the service (which I assume he does being in ROTC) he should know most branches don’t let you wear uniform in public.