If women are in the infantry, should they have the same growing standards, PFT, and CFT as their male counterparts?

LCpl Tad Cunningham — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 02:07:59 -0500

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 2:10 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 02:10:15 -0500

...ooooooorrrrrrr Males be held to the same standard as women. Booommmm!!!!
Mind = Blown

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2015 2:55 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 02:55:15 -0500

Grooming would not need to change, but for the others, absolutely.
How long their hair is worn would self-correct after about a week in the field.

Response by Capt Chris McVeigh made Dec 5 at 2015 2:56 AM

Capt Chris McVeigh — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 02:56:35 -0500

The DOD has decided that women shall be allowed into all specialties. That means that the standard for those MOS producing schools will be the same for both male and female. If women and men are expected to meet the same standard to earn an MOS, they should need to meet the same standards to keep it. For Marines of any MOS, that means passing a PFT/CFT just to remain a Marine. Personally I don't think the standards to be a Marine should be looser than the standards to be whatever MOS you end up as.

The whole argument for different standards in the pass was that men/women are biologically built differently. That was the same argument for the combat arms exclusion. With this change in policy, the argument for different physical standards goes out the window as far as I can see.

Response by SFC Jay Spreitzer made Dec 5 at 2015 4:03 AM

SFC Jay Spreitzer — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 04:03:55 -0500

Yes everyone should meet a set level of standards. When I reclassified to support one of the requirements was everyone had to be able to lift a certain cable and move it, which weight around 50 lbs. It was a requirement and everyone did it. If there are standards its for the persons safety and as well as the teams and the ability to accomplish the mission.

Response by LCpl Ash Carson made Dec 5 at 2015 5:43 AM

LCpl Ash Carson — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 05:43:37 -0500

The standards needs to be the same. If females want to be in infantry they need to do the same as the males

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Dec 5 at 2015 7:51 AM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 07:51:49 -0500

Yes

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Dec 5 at 2015 7:54 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 07:54:58 -0500

How can they not have the same standards? I think you mean grooming standards.

Walt

Response by Sgt Ryan Savage made Dec 5 at 2015 10:27 AM

Sgt Ryan Savage — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 10:27:19 -0500

Yes.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Dec 5 at 2015 10:36 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 10:36:15 -0500

Remember that the PFT is a "Health" standard. The CFT is in theory an Objective standard.

A male & female that are EQUALLY fit (health wise) and expending the same amount of ENERGY will not be able to perform at the same level for the PFT. They'll get the same SCORE though. Women run slower "as a class." (about 1 min per mile). They have less upper body strength, hence the dead arm hang (shifting to the modified pull-up scales).

We CANNOT use the PFT (Physical FITNESS Test) as a measure of COMBAT PROFICIENCY. It's just not designed to do that. It's a "bad" measure, because it's a Subjective measure based on "own body weight."

The CFT is a "much better" test, but far from perfect. The USMC has started adding Objective Testing Requirements however, much like the Range has Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Expert has minimum qualification requirements. Those are Objective which cannot be bypassed. The Commandant has ordered an additional review of both the PFT & CFT to improve both tests.

Response by Cpl Sarah Mast made Dec 5 at 2015 11:10 AM

Cpl Sarah Mast — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 11:10:52 -0500

Absolutely.
No discussion.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Dec 5 at 2015 3:39 PM

SSgt Dan Montague — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 15:39:41 -0500

It should all be the same across the board to include registering for the draft.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Dec 5 at 2015 8:40 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sat, 05 Dec 2015 20:40:13 -0500

Why would they not have to meet the same standards?

Response by SSG David Dickson made Dec 6 at 2015 9:39 AM

SSG David Dickson — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 09:39:12 -0500

Yes. The enemy doesn't take it easy on their opponent because of physical build, strength level, or any other variable. Enemy is enemy either you kill them or they kill you.

Response by Sgt Marion Cieslik made Dec 6 at 2015 9:56 AM

Sgt Marion Cieslik — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 09:56:18 -0500

How stupid is this? People.... wake up. Have you ever noticed... that it's the women who are not in the military.... that want women who ARE in the military to serve in combat units. Next thing they will say.... It's the women and men, serving our country, such bull shit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2015 10:03 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 10:03:14 -0500

I would like to point out that if females are going to be in combat arms roles, so that ALL jobs are accessible to them, then when a female turns 18, they need to register for the draft as well. We want equality right?

Response by Cpl James Waycasie made Dec 6 at 2015 1:29 PM

Cpl James Waycasie — Sun, 06 Dec 2015 13:29:58 -0500

All standards should be the same.

Response by LCpl James Perry made Dec 7 at 2015 8:33 AM

LCpl James Perry — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:33:27 -0500

When should not I put the women in combat because of the upper body strength and endurance.

Response by Cpl Robert Robertson made Dec 12 at 2015 1:11 PM

Cpl Robert Robertson — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:11:23 -0500

Yes one Corps wide rule for all as it applies to the mission

Response by Cpl Robert Robertson made Dec 12 at 2015 1:17 PM

Cpl Robert Robertson — Sat, 12 Dec 2015 13:17:45 -0500

I suspect that any problems are not going to be from the WMs. but from PC pol. The WMs I knew were very good marines and some were MORE gungho than you would espect. You had the 10% yes. But that was to be expected of any group.

Response by LCpl Tad Cunningham made Apr 12 at 2016 2:22 PM

LCpl Tad Cunningham — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:22:17 -0400

Sgt Rebecca Beltran, I really want to know how you can justify that women shouldn't have to register for the draft. Is that not true equality? Is grooming standards being equal and physical requirements not true equality? I guess there's still many ignorant people who only want equality that benefits them, yet makes nothing equal.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 2:53 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:53:40 -0400

Yes

Response by Sgt Phil Quintana made Oct 15 at 2018 12:49 PM

Sgt Phil Quintana — Mon, 15 Oct 2018 12:49:47 -0400

The problem I see is "living" arrangements. When you're out humpin' the boonies, when they call a "ten" "get off the trail, get off your feet", guys that had to go, turned away from the squad and let 'er rip. How about sleeping arrangements? That about "bathing" in the field? What about their monthly cycle? Are they gonna stop a squad/platoon so some BAM can change her tampon? What about "ship board" life? Ok, maybe I'm "Old Corps" ('75-'81) and things were definitely different but some things remain the same.

Response by Sgt Jmeans M made Nov 3 at 2019 12:16 PM

Sgt Jmeans M — Sun, 03 Nov 2019 12:16:48 -0500

Absolf##inglutely, they can' hack it get the f out if they are GI Janes I'd have them in my squad, but at the first sign of special treatment, they need to go.