If we need to save money should MPs and Soldiers guard the gate?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:00:32 -0500

I really don't have an opinion on this but I have heard talk
about it happening at some posts so I want to see where people stand.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 3 at 2013 12:11 PM

CMC Robert Young — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:11:36 -0500

SSG, when I was a kid my dad was still in the Army. There were no DOD or DA police or security. It was all garrison MPs. I failed to understand how over the last forty years, we (the royal we , the military) have become so dependent on civilian GS employees or contractors. What's wrong with doing for ourselves?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 12:15 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:15:46 -0500

SSG Trewhalla, I think DOD could save a lot of money by using Soldiers to work the gates. In Germany, we had red-cycle where we pulled gate guard! Soldiers pulling gate guard builds discipline among the Soldier and the team; saves the Army money and most Soldiers today don't even know their 3 General Orders (which is sad, but true). Although, my Soldiers are detailed out more than they are in the motorpool (back at Ft. Hood) but if guarding the gates is what the Army needs to do to save money then I'm all for it.

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 3 at 2013 12:25 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:25:53 -0500

SSG Moore, I agree with you, and during the shutdown and Furlough, there were military at work here at HRC. Not sure why your NCOER was late, someone should have processed it. Talking about the Civillians, and me being one of them, we have a valuable role here at HRC. I don't think the field could be supported in the field and here along with other places that need 42A's without the Civillians. As far as gate guards, here at Ft. Knox they have removed some of the civillians and replaced them with soldiers on the gates. Just my two cents worth.

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 3 at 2013 12:25 PM

SFC Rocky Gannon — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:25:56 -0500

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Dec 3 at 2013 4:30 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:30:27 -0500

Some posts (at least JBLM) has transitioned to having a majority of the gate guards being Soldiers. There is probably a 10/1 Soldier/Civilian gate guard presence now. I prefer Soldiers on the gates myself, but I can't comment on their capability to prevent unauthorized entry any more or less than civilian guards.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 4:52 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:52:10 -0500

YES , we did it in the past so why cant we do it again. I was a guardsman and mobilized to FT Drum to do that specific mission. It was called OP Noble Eagle.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 3 at 2013 4:55 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:55:43 -0500

Exactly what is the point of our gate guards? I can go to my gate right now out of uniform and say hey I forgot my ID card in my computer and they say OK and let you go. I can hand them my drivers license and do the same thing. Im confident I can hand them my library card or Blockbuster card and get on base.

It seems like their only function is to check ID card expiration dates, give directions to the PX, and flirt with pretty girls holding up the line.

It is an absolute waste of money.

I think if the threat con is escalated then and only then do we need to close and filter the gate.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 5:52 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:52:26 -0500

Every task you give a unit other than training decreases readiness. It's a trade off to save money but in this environment it enables you to keep Soldiers on active duty employed while not training and if they need to deploy you can bring in contract guards.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2014 8:57 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 20:57:05 -0500

SSG, as we're in a time that we NEED to save money, it seems that we're still hiring DoD/DACP on many posts. On my post in Alaska, we keep talking about saving more money and cutting back, yet the government would rather hire DoD/DACP to take over some of our jobs as MPs on post in a garrison environment. Being as low on the totem pole as I am, I don't get the important facts or news regarding the topic, but I am consistently confused on a day to day basis on what we are actually handling as MPs in our garrison role. This is all due to the DA side of law enforcement and the MP side of law enforcement butting heads on who's doing what and how it should be done. I personally would love to have MPs regain control of law enforcement, as well as entrance/exit onto/off of posts. It gives my leaders, my command, and myself more experience in our MOS in the end. By the way, our MPs up here don't even work the gates. We just work the road and man part of our Police Station.

Response by 1SG Anthony Bly (Retired) made Apr 17 at 2014 2:35 AM

1SG Anthony Bly (Retired) — Thu, 17 Apr 2014 02:35:52 -0400

As a 26 year Military Policeman, I see it strictly a Military Police function and not just "any" Soldier. We are specifically trained to deal with traffic codes, violations, rules, laws, etc. and all of these are dealt with at the gate. I have no doubt any other Soldier could learn over time but the Military Police are specifically trained in this area. Leave it to the professionals. As you can tell, we are going back to this and that is how it should be.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2014 3:50 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Apr 2014 15:50:40 -0400

At Ft. Wainwright, it is a red cycle tasking. There are a couple of DoD cops that do gate guard, but not many. MPs do occasionally do it.

As far as money, for people that say contractors or GS are cheaper, I could provide a great argument against that. For now, that argument would be anecdotal, as I have performed no fiscal research and analysis. The problem with the current analysis of such matters, the research is done mostly by contractors or GS employees. How many are going to be in favor of cutting off their own paycheck? Even military research can be flawed, as many military members exit the service for contract work. Numbers say what you want them to, unless they are reported as raw data, which most people don't know how to analyze.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jul 31 at 2014 8:56 AM

SGT Richard H. — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:56:58 -0400

When I was in (1983-1991) I don't recall ever having civilian gate guards. Most stateside posts used MP's for the gate guards, while overseas posts drew from the month's "duty Battalion" to accomplish the task. It worked just fine as far as I can remember, however, we've currently been at war for about 13 years, so having civilians do it may not be such a bad thing, as it keeps from having soldiers performing mundane tasks when they should be doing train-ups for deployment cycles.

Response by SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT made Dec 4 at 2015 6:39 AM

SGM David W. Carr LOM, DMSM MP SGT — Fri, 04 Dec 2015 06:39:40 -0500

As a young MP stationed at West Point in the late 70s on an open post
I enjoyed working the gates helping people and was even filmed for a TV special.
Was NCOIC of the Thayer main gate and area behind the Thayer Hotel for the 52 Iran hostages stateside return to meet their families after 444 days in captivity..

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2016 2:27 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jun 2016 14:27:42 -0400

I prefer seeing my own on gates than Civilian Officers. Yes, it would save money to return to that day.