If the organizations like the KKK did not take up the confed flag, would we vilify it so much?

2015-05-23T00:46:56-04:00

I was thinking about this, having done a lot of civil war study lately. If organizations like the KKK didn't use the confed flag would we see it so harshly? when we became an independent nation from england we do not look at the Union Jack like we do the Stars and Bars. I'm frankly glad the North won, but it makes me wonder a bit.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made May 23 at 2015 12:49 AM

2015-05-23T00:49:13-04:00

Morality is the flag that vilifies the KKK, not the Confederate flag.

Response by SGT David T. made May 23 at 2015 12:52 AM

2015-05-23T00:52:01-04:00

First off the flag in question isn't the stars and bars, that was the first national flag. The one in question is the army battle flag or naval ensign depending on the shape being used. I don't vilify its display depending on context. If a hate group uses it then I do, if a civil war reenactment group flies it I don't. Context is everything.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made May 23 at 2015 12:56 AM

2015-05-23T00:56:16-04:00

This particular topic is another mine field waiting to explode. There would be some who would still vilify the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia no matter what group or hatred organization used it for whatever reason.

LCpl Mark Lefler you may want to call in some admins to help monitor this thread. Anything involving the Confederacy is a touchy subject here. Most see it as a symbol of a failed rebellion, some see it as hatred of people of color, others see it as heritage and still others see it as a a symbol of repression. My opinion is well documented in other threads of a similar nature. I wish you the best in keeping this from getting out of hand.

Respects
Charles

Response by COL Charles Williams made May 23 at 2015 4:07 AM

2015-05-23T04:07:52-04:00

That flag is a symbol, that I have learned means different things to different people; I understand both sides of the discussion/argument. I have my own opinions on what the "stars and bars" or "rebel" flag means; it is a matter of opinion.

The KKK, and other hate groups, are evil. I would hope we could see through their symbols and focus on their vision and mission.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made May 23 at 2015 6:36 AM

2015-05-23T06:36:27-04:00

Personally I've never had an issue with it, thinking it was mostly a "Southern Pride" thing but I can see how it affects groups differently and how some may have a negative affinity for it.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-05-23T07:52:19-04:00

Personally, I think the Confederate Flags earn their bad juju from the fact that they represented the Confederacy, which rebelled against the United States so that they could protect their "right" to facilitate slavery. The UK on the other hand has been around for an extremely long time, and has undergone great changes throughout that time. As such we view the Union Jack as a symbol of the UK in general, rather than as a symbol for certain ideals or principles (aside from monarchy perhaps).

Others see the Confederate Flag (the popular version) as a symbol of Southern Pride, as it does represent an attempted-nation which was exclusively comprised of the South. However, I personally find that what it originally and specifically represented is more relevant than the geographic area it represented, and I do not think slavery as a primary factor can be reasonably separated from its meaning.

Response by SGT Anthony Bussing made May 23 at 2015 1:19 PM

2015-05-23T13:19:46-04:00

here is a link to the flags used by the rebels...and lets not BS around...thats what they were...rebels...the south got what it deserved...

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

Flags of the Confederacy

The First Official Flag of the Confederacy. Although less well known than the "Confederate Battle Flags",the Stars and Bars was used as the official flag of the Confederacy from March 1861 to May of 1863. The pattern and colors of this flag did not distinguish it sharply fom the Stars and Stripes of the Union. Consequently, considerable confusion was caused on the battlefield.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2015 1:26 PM

2015-05-23T13:26:00-04:00

The whole argument about treason could go either way I think, if you really delve into the issue. The southern states felt that their way of life was under attack by a government that didn't sympathize with them. A lot of time the southern state militias were caught up in the battle simply because federal troops had entered their state. It was a different time, so weighing the actions of the dead on the standards of the present isn't so clear cut. These men, both north and south, were both fighting for their rights as Americans. It's one of these reasons that whole war was so costly and terrible. This flag to me represents southern independence, but more so in the symbolic sense. Many a southerners are the most patriot hard working Americans I've ever known. Like someone said, this flag means different things to different people, and not all of it is bad. I guess its the manner in which its used.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made May 23 at 2015 1:47 PM

2015-05-23T13:47:40-04:00

The flag of the Army of Northern Virginia flies alongside but below my American flag. To me it's a symbol of states rights. My ancestors fought for the Union. My sympathies lie with the south.

There were many reasons for the civil war or War of Northern Aggression, depending on your point of view.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made May 23 at 2015 5:09 PM

2015-05-23T17:09:45-04:00

The kkk needs to fly the flag that most represents their beliefs. I think this one is most appropriate.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 23 at 2015 5:55 PM

2015-05-23T17:55:57-04:00

The winner writes history.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2015 8:56 AM

2015-05-25T08:56:52-04:00

It's about context. I live in a middle ground of the Civil War, and I know some older men who show respect for both flags without any context of the KKK.

And the State of Georgia has the Stars and Bars in its State Flag.

Ignorance allows an innoculous item to hold a meaning it doesn't possess. If I see it on the back of an older truck, it's nothing. If they're toting around abbedsheet for fashion, I don't have any need for them.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Jun 3 at 2015 8:33 AM

2015-06-03T08:33:04-04:00

While the Revolutionary war was I am in no doubt hellish at times the American Civil War caused a 2% loss of the entire population of the United States, and with 620,000 military deaths which in comparison is 200,000 more than over the course of World War II for the United States military, compare this to the 25,000 lost in the Revolutionary war, and for what? To understand the devastation of the American Civil War consider the entire losses of the Vietnam War in a single battle, and you have Gettysburg. I would say that if there is resentment the excuse may be the KKK, but for those who really sit and think about it the fact that at one time our countrymen would sacrifice 2% of our population and our union over an institution as vile as slavery and then have the desire to see a heritage to be honored. It would seem that if those in the former Confederate states wished to celebrate their unique heritage they would find a new symbol as many other people had to do, at least one that is not so stained in misguided and pointless sacrifice.