If my current position in a team is compromised by an ongoing fraternization between my team and squad leader, how should I handle it?

2020-01-24T18:36:23-05:00

I'm having issues with my Squad Leader who is currently dating my Team Leader. I fear this will cause conflict with both people in addition to possibly receiving a negative NCOER. How should I handle this situation? SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG Private RallyPoint Member Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish SGT Ben Keen CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2020 6:45 PM

2020-01-24T18:45:21-05:00

Holy shit.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Jan 24 at 2020 7:01 PM

2020-01-24T19:01:09-05:00

Stay out of it. Worry about yourself and those under you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2020 7:08 PM

2020-01-24T19:08:17-05:00

...how do you know they’re dating?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2020 7:22 PM

2020-01-24T19:22:40-05:00

Almost seems typical for S-1, haha. But jokes aside, if it doesn't have an affect on you, I would mind my own business. HOWEVER, if favoritism is shown and you can prove that your squad leader favors her personally in an official dicume t such as an NCOER simply because they are dating, then that is absolutely not cool. Especially if you out perform you team leader. Then I would bring that up.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jan 24 at 2020 7:30 PM

2020-01-24T19:30:20-05:00

That relationship is actually against Army Regs and your 1SG should intervene. If this was a Private Company one or both would be fired. I agree with everyone else, stay out of it and let the other Senior NCO's clean it up.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jan 24 at 2020 7:41 PM

2020-01-24T19:41:43-05:00

Marine Corps response... Both the squad leader and the team leader are permanently transferred to opposite ends of the base, as of yesterday. Your NCOER, normally done by the departing NCO rater, should be done by whoever is the squad leader's rater, and possibly/probably/should be an "not observed" report. But that is not your responsibility.

Is the command aware of this relationship between the squad leader and the team leader?

Response by LTC Lee Bouchard made Jan 24 at 2020 7:41 PM

2020-01-24T19:41:47-05:00

You can approach them individually or together and discuss their relationship, the impact on your unit and what violation(s) policy they are operating under. Also, their relationship IS now your business!! "Everything and anything within my command is now my business". That includes relations off duty that they ring back when on duty. You cannot successfully separate the two long term. Keeping and hiding problems from the NCO chain of command is not in your best interest. Being honest and up front is always the best approach.

You will not be able to conceal the relationship from the 1SG or CSM for long. With their years of service and schooling they are not stupid or blind. They know how to back channel and use the grape vine to learn whatever they want to. I would not hesitate bringing the problem to them for advise.
Collectively, the decision will be the best for everyone and not a decision made only by you.

*****If nothing is working well and the relationship continues within the same command (a No-no) then transfer and separate one or both into other commands. If they don't like it, tuff sh''t. You didn't create the problem but you'll solve it for them. My 2 cents worth as a former NCO and Bn. Commander. LTC, Inf. retired.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Jan 24 at 2020 7:49 PM

2020-01-24T19:49:08-05:00

Get some popcorn for when the situation blows on their face. Then enjoy the show!!!!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 24 at 2020 8:06 PM

2020-01-24T20:06:08-05:00

You can share your concerns with them. However it appears they are too stupid not to be discreet about it. They are adults. When you are given a rope, you can swing like a monkey or hang yourself. Don't lose any sleep. They will make their own beds.

Let me tell you that there are 3 types of people.
1. They are driven by values
2. They don't want to get caught
3. The risk of being caught is acceptable

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 24 at 2020 9:04 PM

2020-01-24T21:04:33-05:00

This is one of those situations I don't think you should worry about. You fear it MAY turn into conflict. It hasn't. Maybe it'll turn into a lasting 60 year marriage and one of them will get transferred companies.

Response by SSG Patricia Duggins made Jan 24 at 2020 9:16 PM

2020-01-24T21:16:50-05:00

My question is if their "relationship" have affected you performing to the top of your ability? Are they affecting how you do your job? Are they bad mouthing you or giving you bad reports because you know about their relationship? Are they showing favoritism? If you are doing your job correctly, keeping your nose clean and they are not "out to get you" because you know about their relationship or they do not show favoritism then I say mind your business. Chips will fall wherever they may, and you do not want to be anywhere nearby when that happens. Then you will be pulled into the mess. Do your job and even go above and beyond but unless it affects team cohesion or your job, stay out of it. Nothing stay hidden for long in a unit.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jan 24 at 2020 10:37 PM

2020-01-24T22:37:46-05:00

Wow, my friend SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member. I recommend reaching out to the platoon sergeant and platoon leader if there is an open door policy using a hypothetical situation if that would be more comfortable. If that fails, I recommend talking to the 1SG and Company Commander.
What do you think? LTC John Shaw COL Private RallyPoint Member MSG Andrew White MSgt David M. 1SG Michael Blount 1SG James L Vetter 1SG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jan 24 at 2020 11:18 PM

2020-01-24T23:18:03-05:00

Holy shit. Ok... wow. Umm, and this is compounded by your being reserve.
Yikes. Ok, RUN, don't walk, RUN to your 1SGT. You inform your PSG that you are going but you got go see him. Use that open door policy or this can and will get worse that it is.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2020 12:10 AM

2020-01-25T00:10:00-05:00

Well if you get them to split and hate each other before your annual is due then you’ll surely be in for a top block! Lol

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jan 25 at 2020 6:48 AM

2020-01-25T06:48:48-05:00

Raise the situation to the 1SG. S/he can then change team and platoon assignments. Talking to the PSG as an interim step will waste time and cause the situation to fester.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2020 8:28 AM

2020-01-25T08:28:00-05:00

Plain and simple, report it to the commander. Leader and subordinate relationships are specifically forbidden because they can and often do destroy the integrity of organizations, not just for those in the relationship, but also those 3rd parties who fall on the losing end of fairness and impartiality, due to blatant favoritism of the romantic partner.

In this circumstance, the other team leaders must worry that they won't be treated fairly in comparison to the Squad Leader's love interest. Additionally, it puts the fraternizing subordinate team leader in a professionally compromising position, where they may feel they have no choice but to continue the romantic relationship with the squad leader, for fear of reprisal from their superior.

Heck, maybe inquire with the IG on the best way to approach the situation without putting yourself at risk of reprisal.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jan 25 at 2020 10:10 AM

2020-01-25T10:10:36-05:00

You should speak to PSG and Leader.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Jan 25 at 2020 2:52 PM

2020-01-25T14:52:02-05:00

I'd keep my mouth shut... not your call... no one likes a snitch.... Commanders especially....

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jan 25 at 2020 2:58 PM

2020-01-25T14:58:03-05:00

If you were not made aware of it by underlings, then they either condone it, expect you to, or feel nothing is wrong. In that case, "pulling them aside to prevent it going upwards" is not going to work. Take it up your chain. Oh and...make sure your phone is recording the conversation when you walk in the room...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2020 5:16 PM

2020-01-25T17:16:52-05:00

In conjunction with all the other advice, take a gander at AR 600-20 for your own SA.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2020 5:41 PM

2020-01-25T17:41:18-05:00

As bad as this seems, and as in danger as you might feel your career is in, you need to jump them and raise the red flags at the next level up. Keep raising the red flags until someone takes you seriously. Unfortunately, a lot of people think it's not important that fraternization happens but your situation is exactly why it matters. If you dont feel alright going higher then you can send it to IG. Doesnt normally need to come to that, generally BN or BDE will get involved if no one below that does.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Jan 26 at 2020 11:43 AM

2020-01-26T11:43:15-05:00

Next stop; Squad leader's boss. Next stop after that; his boss.
I'm not sure of your unit structure, but are these SNCOs or Officers?
You may have to make a few uncomfortable steps, but if you approach it with tact you should come out okay. Good luck.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 26 at 2020 1:24 PM

2020-01-26T13:24:51-05:00

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member this can be a little messy with a Guard Unit. On its face, it looks like a case of unauthorized fraternization. If you were in an Active Duty unit, I would definitely call it that. The Guard has an exception to the regulations that allows Guard members to associate socially outside of their Guard unit duties. In essence, they can date or whatever when they aren't on their "one weekend a month and two weeks a year" time. They should not bring this relationship into the workplace at Guard drill or training. Your have a legitimate complaint if their relationship is effecting their leadership or good order and discipline in the unit. I recommend you use your 1st Sgt or CSM "open door" time to talk with him or her about the issue. If either one retaliates against you for talking with a SNCO, then you probably have a valid IG complaint.

Response by CSM Rick Mathis made Jan 26 at 2020 7:06 PM

2020-01-26T19:06:00-05:00

Leave a note on the CSM windshield. He'll clean it up.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jan 27 at 2020 10:01 AM

2020-01-27T10:01:30-05:00

WOW REALY? and your the only one that knows? I think if that was the case may whole chain of command would know within seconds.
Now I find it hard to believe that you know what Fraternization is and do not know how to handle it. I all so don't think this is the place to ask that question I would be talking to my chain of command. JMTC

Response by SPC Jim McCormick made Feb 1 at 2020 7:00 PM

2020-02-01T19:00:04-05:00

What would human resources do about it? Then do it. Skip everyone involved and go to the first level not involved in anyway, shape, or form.

Response by SPC Melanie Vancegonzalez made Feb 8 at 2020 12:23 AM

2020-02-08T00:23:54-05:00

This could be handled several different ways depending on several questions that need to be answered. Are they higher rank than you? If yes then leave it alone and let them handle the consequences, or tell your PL or higher chain of command, but chances are they already know and were ignoring it until someone like you notices and forces them to do something. Are they both NCOs or is one an NCO and the other a lower rank? Because it's not fraternization if an NCO is dating an NCO, or an officer is dating an officer, or an E4 and E4, or private and private, etc. But if they are in different ranking categories than try to talk to them and give them a chance to end it before going up your chain of command because that could mean someones rank. But if they don't take your advice then definitely do because then you are liable if it is found out you knew and said nothing. Are they the same sex? Today probably isn't an issue but I was in when they still had don't ask, don't tell and it mattered. Handle it the same as before talk to them first before saying something to the chain. Can they be placed on different shifts so they do not work at the same time while on duty? I was in aviation hydraulics shop so my squad had people working on different things at different times of the day and night. Are they interacting in a nonprofessional way while on duty? If they are kissing and snuggling at work then talk to them about it before talking to higher ups. But in most instances I would leave it alone until it becomes clear that it will affect you. You don't want to be known as that guy who tells his chain on your team. On the flip side if it is going to affect you or your career then say something. I saw this happen several times and as long as the two are not married then higher ups ignored it until it became a problem (someone said something) then moved one of them to a different platoon or company. Unless rank was an issue then article 15s came into play along with demotions or even chapters. A few even happened on deployment in Iraq and as long as nobody said anything and they didn't parade it in front of anyone, it was ignored.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Feb 17 at 2020 6:36 PM

2020-02-17T18:36:26-05:00

So you should address the issue with another team leader in the squad, another team or squad leader in the Platoon or the Platoon Sgt. Basic chain of Command. You’re a Sgt, just run it up the chain.

Response by SSG Vincent Wilson made Feb 20 at 2020 10:34 PM

2020-02-20T22:34:50-05:00

If you happen to know any SGT Major, regardless of where he is, tell him. In a short time your SGT Major will be calling your 1SG in for a meeting and the situation will be quickly handled.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2020 1:51 AM

2020-04-24T01:51:24-04:00

I had the same situation, when I was a SGT. My married Platoon Leader was sleeping with my Section SGT, using vehicles I dispatched. I approached my Platoon Leader and informed him that I was uncomfortable with his decision to actively maintain a relationship in military vehicles I maintained. I made certain that he knew I was less interested in his personal life than I was in the misuse of military equipment. He advised me that it was none of my business. Next step was my Commander. I informed him that I needed a transfer from the unit. When pressed for a reason why, I stated that I disagreed with members of the unit engaging in extra-marital affairs and using organizational equipment to do so. My request was granted and that was the end of it. My NCOER was 'neutral' but after reminding my commander about the reason why I left, it was corrected.