If I never bring my Personally Owned Weapons on post, and they stay off post, can my commander force me to store them in the arms room?

2016-08-18T07:54:35-04:00

Response by SGT David T. made Aug 18 at 2016 8:02 AM

2016-08-18T08:02:55-04:00

Public Law 111-383 SEC. 1062 explicitly forbids this very practice. Forcing you to keep them in the arms room, by definition is a records requirement given how arms rooms have to account for weapons.

(a) In General.--Except as provided in subsection (c), the Secretary
of Defense shall not prohibit, issue any requirement relating to, or
collect or record any information relating to the otherwise lawful
acquisition, possession, ownership, carrying, or other use of a
privately owned firearm, privately owned ammunition, or another
privately owned weapon by a member of the Armed Forces or civilian
employee of the Department of Defense on property that is not--
(1) a military installation; or
(2) any other property that is owned or operated by the
Department of Defense.

(b) Existing Regulations and Records.--
(1) Regulations.--Any regulation promulgated before the date
of enactment of this Act shall have no force or effect to the
extent that it requires conduct prohibited by this section.
(2) <<NOTE: Deadline.>> Records.--Not later than 90 days
after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary of
Defense shall destroy any record containing information
described in subsection (a) that was collected before the date
of enactment of this Act.

(c) <<NOTE: Records.>> Rule of Construction.--Subsection (a) shall
not be construed to limit the authority of the Secretary of Defense to--
(1) create or maintain records relating to, or regulate the
possession, carrying, or other use of a firearm, ammunition, or
other weapon by a member of the Armed Forces or civilian
employee of the Department of Defense while--
(A) engaged in official duties on behalf of the
Department of Defense; or
(B) wearing the uniform of an Armed Force; or
(2) create or maintain records relating to an investigation,
prosecution, or adjudication of an alleged violation of law
(including regulations not prohibited under subsection (a)),
including matters related to whether a member of the Armed
Forces constitutes a threat to the member or others.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 18 at 2016 9:01 AM

2016-08-18T09:01:04-04:00

If this is a blanket thing "for everyones safety" and being "required of all" I think your commander will find he (she) doesn't have that athority.. If that is the issue, stop talking to us and go see the JAG, then the CDR, then IG.

If the CDR truly feels this is for YOUR safety, or the safety of others FROM you, I think he will find he still can not ORDER you to turn them in. (but the law is a fickle thing here, so again, dont trust us, go see JAG, then the CDR, then if not satisfied with the result, IG)
What he can do is ask, suggest, recommend, and tell you what will happen if you dont.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Aug 18 at 2016 10:26 AM

2016-08-18T10:26:24-04:00

Before contacting JAG, check the post policy on firearms. Find out if it is requirement or regulation for SM assigned to the post to register a firearm on post simply for ownership if you have no intention of bringing on post. I assume you live in the barracks which is why the commander is ordering this? Firearms obviously are not allowed in barracks rooms, and barracks residents who own firearms may store them in the arms room with the commanders authority. But not so sure you are required to store in arms room simply for owning them if you have a safe and legal means of storing them off post. If the commander is not convinced you have a safe and legal means to store them, then ethically he does have reason for concern.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 10:27 AM

2016-08-18T10:27:09-04:00

I'm no lawyer, but I can speak from knowledge in regards to my old Platoon Sergeant from FT Irwin. He was an avid weapons collector and avid sports shooter. We did have a weapons range on post that could be used by military folk and family during off time as long as the proper Range Control procedures were met. But I digress. He kept his weapons off post, as he did live off post (until he came on post to shoot at the range), and he was not required to keep his weapons in the arms room. The commander did want his weapons type and serial numbers for accountability, but that was about it. But, as SGM Erik Marquez said, go talk to JAG. Or, ask your NCO's to check with Post HQ and see if there is a post wide policy dictating that or not.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Aug 18 at 2016 11:22 AM

2016-08-18T11:22:50-04:00

Depends on some key factors. 1) Whether you have notified your chain of command that you have a POW and two whether you express any suicidal ideations or intentions to harm others. Otherwise Congress has made it pretty difficult for even GOs to police up weapons their soldiers have.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-08-18T11:58:13-04:00

I asked JAG here at Jackson about this very thing last year. This is what they told me:

1. If the weapon is safely secured off post and you are not carrying it in your vehicle on post, then no. However;
-If you are expressing suicidal ideations
-If you are expressing a desire to harm someone
-If you are expressing ideations to commit illegal activity that violates the UCMJ and/or civilian law
Your Commander may reserve the right to order the weapon stored in the Company or Battalion Arms Room, along with a DA 3234 and an Arms Room registration roster.

However, this is IAW post policy, and may vary form installation to installation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2016 5:32 PM

2016-08-25T17:32:52-04:00

I mean I've owned weapons even before I was even in the army, But some experiences from fellow soldiers that I've worked with I don't trust storing them In The Arms Room. That's why I was particularly inquiring about this.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Sep 6 at 2016 4:48 PM

2016-09-06T16:48:48-04:00

Every installation I was assigned to had their particular policy covering POWs, everyone of them required me, married and living in on-post housing to have them registered on post which required the BN CDR to sign a particular form which I cannot remember the number for right now, but was not required to store them in the Arms Room. Off-post, no requirement for anything that I can remember at all. The only one's required to store them in the Arms Room were personnel that resided in the barracks, same requirement for knives with a blade over 3" long, swords, battleaxes etc.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Sep 6 at 2016 4:53 PM

2016-09-06T16:53:01-04:00

Silence is golden. Why does your CO. even know what you have?

Response by SSG Edward Joy made Sep 6 at 2016 6:28 PM

2016-09-06T18:28:50-04:00

If you own personal wepons, when you are being transferred under permanent change of station orders. upon arrival at your new duty station you must check in with the provost marshals office to find out what State or local laws apply in that area. The provost marshal shall store your wepons if living off post untill such time as you have complied with state or local regulations. Your commander has no jurisdiction over your personal wepons.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 8:08 PM

2016-09-06T20:08:22-04:00

That depends, 1. Do you live in the Barracks? If the answer is yes, then most post policies require that they are stored there. 2. If you live in the Barracks did you register them on post? Again if the answer is yes then most post policies are that they have to be stored there. Now if you do not live on post then the answer is no.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 9:12 PM

2016-09-06T21:12:26-04:00

Is this a question because it happened to you or for general knowledge of what the rules and regs are?? I see no reason why command would be the least bit concerned about a weapon you legally own and store at your home off base.....it has nothing to do with the safety of those that live on base and if you have no intentions of brining it thru the gate then what would it matter?

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 10:57 PM

2016-09-06T22:57:34-04:00

Gee, if only the Bill of Rights had a clause that guarantees our right to keep and bear arms... and if only the Supreme Court had ruled that the right to keep and bear arms in the home for self-defense is in fact a right... and that it is unconstitutional to require that arms be stored in a manner that prevents their use in self-defense.

If it wouldn't be career suicide to challenge the Army on its blanket policy prohibiting firearms onpost, I would imagine someone would have challenged it by now because I can't figure out how it's legal. But I'm not a lawyer. The same goes for various post policies affording commanders control over SM POWs, such as Fort Bragg's requirement that Soldiers get permission from their commander to purchase handguns... while the process is actually really easy and much faster than the NC purchase permit process, it's also probably illegal.

Response by 1SG Jorge Guzman made Sep 8 at 2016 2:46 AM

2016-09-08T02:46:11-04:00

No, the Commander at any level does not have the authority to make you keep your weapons in the Arms room. Unless, you live in the barracks, or you live on government housing and are going thru some issues, ie domestic, weapons related, law enforcement, etc. But if you live off post, you can be as mentally unstable as you want to be, or have suicidal tendencies, and the Cdr could still not order you to bring in your weapons. They can only suggest. Aside frome that though, they will still try to get you all the help you might need for whatever funk you might be going thru in life.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2020 11:12 AM

2020-06-06T11:12:38-04:00

It depends on a variety of things. If it has been determined to be a safety risk due to your mental status, yes....
So the answer is not a flat yes or not, it depends on whats going on and without all the information, we can't give you a "right" answer only a general answer.

Response by SGT Jay Holland made Oct 22 at 2020 5:47 PM

2020-10-22T17:47:14-04:00

That could fall under Theft of use. That is doing anything that prevents you from using your private property. For people in the barracks, storing their guns in the arms room is a matter of public safety. Too many people would have too easy access to it.