If directed to exit an airplane by flight crew, would you refuse and resist?

CSM Charles Hayden — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:21:06 -0400

Is our society overly quick to contest authority?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 13 at 2017 10:24 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:24:02 -0400

After Seeing that Other Poor Shmuck Get Beat Up, Hell No!

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Apr 13 at 2017 10:25 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:25:42 -0400

Yes.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 13 at 2017 10:37 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 22:37:41 -0400

CSM Charles Hayden Yes, in many cases, folks will resist because they do not like authority. I would not resist unless I had a very good reason to refuse the flight crew. I would not be dragged off of a plane.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Apr 13 at 2017 11:12 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 13 Apr 2017 23:12:02 -0400

Hey, I'd trade a few natural teeth and a broken nose for the house and shiny new teeth that guy is gonna get outta this. Just sayin'.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 12:14 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 00:14:36 -0400

Depends.
For example when leaving AIT I was ordered to not give up my seat for any reason and was instructed to inform the airline staff if such an event were to occur that I was traveling on orders.

I doubt they would move me, but you never know.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 1:27 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 01:27:01 -0400

Give up my seat to a United employee? No way!

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Apr 14 at 2017 2:31 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 02:31:50 -0400

You're required to comply based on regulations and your contract agreement when you buy the ticket. What happens afterwards is a matter of regulations and usually negotiations. BTW United did a poor job. The CEO should have immediately shown remorse but then distance United from the non United security folk that went beyond. It will be settled, but if it went to court, United would want to hang everything on the security force and also bring up the victim's past. Relevance is just an opinion, hence would get a ruling on that as well. The correct business decision would be the "Disney Alligator Solution". Everyone knew it'd be settled.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 8:17 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:17:26 -0400

Not following the directions of a flight crew is a sure ticket to jail and a hefty fine and the airlines know it. The time to push back is not while on an aircraft.
If I am at the gate, or removed from a plane to see a gate agent, then they will see me go full First Sergeant on them.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 8:35 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:35:38 -0400

CSM Charles Hayden I do believe we are overly quick to contest authority. United has exactly zero excuse for treating the Dr. in the way seen in the video and there is absolutely no excuse for it. But the Dr.'s temper tantrum at being told that he was randomly selected to be removed from the plane is also unacceptable. Had he used his words rather than his actions things may have turned out differently. When he began screaming and went limp and forced the security guards to drag him off the plane, in my opinion, he showed a side of himself that should not be shown. I lost any respect for the man and if he were my Dr., he would not be any longer. I would quickly find another.

Saying all of that, if I were randomly selected to be removed from an aircraft, for any reason, I would gather my things and follow the stewardess out. I would take my grievances up with the staff in a private and professional manner and possibly file a complaint, if I thought I had been wronged. I would not scream, yell, whine, and be dragged off the plane.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Apr 14 at 2017 9:17 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:17:33 -0400

Depends. What circumstances am I traveling under? If I paid my ticket, just why am I being removed? What deal will the airline negotiate? Will the company's rule be enforced by police powers?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 9:46 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 09:46:14 -0400

Depends on the circumstances, CSM Charles Hayden

Response by SSG Bethany Viglietta made Apr 14 at 2017 10:08 AM

SSG Bethany Viglietta — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:08:06 -0400

I have so many questions, why did United suddenly realize they had to move employees to the next location? Poor planning or an emergency? Why was the passenger so upset, where was he going? Was there a funeral, family in hospital, court, or something equally important? He's a grown adult who acted that way, there's got to be something more going on.

I would have got off the plane, but depending on why I was traveling, United would not have heard the end of it. They have the authority to remove anyone they want off the plane, but if done with a little more tact, they would not have all the negative publicity right now. Monday quarterbacking is the best.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Apr 14 at 2017 10:34 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:34:09 -0400

Can't verify the accuracy of this, but it gives another perspective.

https://thepilotwifelife.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/i-know-youre-mad-at-united-but-thoughts-from-a-pilot-wife-about-flight-3411/

I Know You’re Mad at United but… (Thoughts from a Pilot Wife About Flight 3411)

If there’s one thing I have learned over the years, it’s that there arealways two sides to every story. On April 9th, a very unfortunate incident played out on United Flight 3411,…

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 14 at 2017 10:39 AM

MSG Brad Sand — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 10:39:39 -0400

No. But now that we know how much money is to be made, I might have to rethink being an adult in the future...as long as everyone has the phones ready?
Understand, I am not in anyway justifying how the airline handled this but seems to me we are rewarding the person who acted the worst? Where are the videos and stories on the other three people who had to exit the plane?
It is not just United, I had my problems with American just last month BUT they did not need to get security or law enforcement involved?

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 14 at 2017 11:45 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:45:27 -0400

I have been on flights where before people start to board an announcement is made the plane is over booked and ask for volunteers to catch a later flight. If they have to wait over night they were given a place for the night plus upgrade on their next flight. It is all too easy to see a plane is over booked and this is a good way to handle it. I have volunteered a couple times, but it was my decision. Once a person is on the plane and has a valid ticket for that seat I feel the airline has let it go too far. It depends on my schedule if I would deplane and take a later flight.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Apr 14 at 2017 11:50 AM

PO1 Brian Austin — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 11:50:25 -0400

Many people are very quick to contest authority these days. Working in private security i run into it almost on a daily basis, sometimes over the most mundane things.
In my case I wouldn't be happy about it, but i'd comply. Gotta pick your battles. Once i got back to the gate discussions concerning compensation would ensue.
Unless this "four employees" issue was a last minute thing, it's hard to believe United didn't ask for volunteers at the gate prior to boarding. That has been my experience when i used to fly a lot. It still doesn't excuse the treatment of the passenger, though he didn't help matters any with his own conduct.

Response by SPC Johnney Abbott made Apr 14 at 2017 12:03 PM

SPC Johnney Abbott — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 12:03:45 -0400

Depends on what they were offering in return. But just to arbitrarily remove me from the plane because they messed up isn't happening.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2017 1:56 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 13:56:12 -0400

No, because I read the contract of carriage. United violated its own terms by booting this doctor off the plane. I read the fine print. I'd have exited the plane, and called an attorney, and started making noises -at the gate- about rescheduling me on another airline AT UNITED'S EXPENSE or I'd make a media spectacle of it.

Response by Sgt John Steinmeier made Apr 14 at 2017 2:48 PM

Sgt John Steinmeier — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:48:00 -0400

I have a little bit of dignity left...so before I violated any Federal law, and to avoid being manhandled being dragged kicking and screaming like a three year old throwing a fit I would opt leave under my own power.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Apr 14 at 2017 6:36 PM

1SG Mike Case — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 18:36:37 -0400

If they were offering $800 dollars, covering my hotel cost if I had to stay overnight, and I didn't need to be somewhere, sure I would.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 14 at 2017 9:52 PM

SSG Edward Tilton — Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:52:01 -0400

Treatment by the airlines killed flight as an option for me. I'd walk before I allowed myself to be treated that way.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 15 at 2017 1:06 AM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 01:06:46 -0400

It depends. I would ask why... then decide.... CSM Charles Hayden

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Apr 15 at 2017 3:15 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:15:35 -0400

No............nor would I run back onto an airplane in which I was forceably removed. Least of all a plane bound for Louisville, KY......I could think of 10 other destinations I would rather fly to.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2017 1:40 AM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 01:40:19 -0400

Is the plane on fire?

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Apr 17 at 2017 7:45 AM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 07:45:49 -0400

Why not exit? Did it several times when traveling on orders and had some flexibility in my schedule. Point to remember is if you're on orders you can't accept any money, or you have to turn it in to finance if you do, but you can accept upgrade in seating. I agree that society in general is too caught up with itself and individuals don't see past their immediate needs which leads to issues such as the United fiasco. This situation apparently comes up a lot and skill of the aircrew can be difference between someone leaving the aircraft with a package of perks or what happened with United. Local paper had a letter to editor from a commercial airline pilot who said his tactic in situations like this was to tell the passenger in question that one of them was leaving the aircraft. If passenger stayed, pilot was leaving and aircraft would go nowhere.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Apr 17 at 2017 9:07 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 09:07:12 -0400

I don't think it's so much being quick to contest authority, I think the question is why am I being asked to exit the plane? Is there a fire on board, sure, whatever you say I'm off. But am I a paying customer whose luggage is already on board and am already seated... why am I being asked to get off the plane???

Yes, in the skies, they are the authority. They say put the seat belts on, we do. They say turn off all electronics, we do (most of the time).

But remember, we paid to sit on that plane. We paid not only a dollar value amount, but also our time and dignity sitting through a 2 hour TSA boarding security check.

Chances are that our luggage is already stowed away. Will they be calling the baggage handlers to sift through all the luggage to retrieve only my bag. Of course not. They'll just say... "Your luggage will be waiting for you whenever you arrive at your destination". Assuming it's not stolen or lost of course.

When the passenger was dragged off the plane, did any of the flight attendants grab any of his items from the overhead bins? Highly doubtful.

Imagine calling a taxi, paying them in advance to drive you 10 miles, and have them kick you to the curb, keep your money, and say "we'll send a cab to pick you up tomorrow".

You'd be outraged of course. It's not so much the "resisting authority" that you should concern yourself with. It's the why of the matter which really counts.

As a paying customer, why am I being replaced by someone who is essentially flying for free? Whose need for that seat is greater? Someone who literally doesn't get paid until the plane takes off, or someone who might be operating on someone the next day. Everyone has their own priorities in life. Maybe my desire to go on vacation for the first time in 5 years supersedes your desire to go to work the next day.

Did the airline try to provide compensation, yes. But clearly they didn't offer enough, because if they kept going up, clearly someone would have jumped at the opportunity.

Response by SFC William Stephens made Apr 17 at 2017 10:47 AM

SFC William Stephens — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 10:47:33 -0400

I would! because you never know what they teach in them classes now, might meet up with one of them soft guys who think might be kind of funny and he throw that NINJA WARRIOR SHIT ON YOU! THAT'S AMERICAN!

Response by SSgt Boyd Welch made Apr 17 at 2017 2:44 PM

SSgt Boyd Welch — Mon, 17 Apr 2017 14:44:52 -0400

I notice that United didn't try to remove a Marine........

Sorry just a little "barb" at United. If you paid for a ticket in advance and you have been seated, well guess what United? Those crew members that you suddenly had to get somewhere...you should send them via special aircraft. NOT the one your passengers have already paid for.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2017 7:49 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Apr 2017 07:49:33 -0400

If you do, you are now guaranteed, within twenty-four hours, to be on the front page of the New York Times and the opening act on the Today Show!!!

Response by SGM Kenneth Hinckley made Jul 7 at 2022 6:30 AM

SGM Kenneth Hinckley — Thu, 07 Jul 2022 06:30:38 -0400

No. Assuming (based on past experience with airlines) flight crews remain sane, the reason for the request would be sincere and obvious. I would de-plane.