I have heard the USAF is starting to have retention issues. Is this just an "urban legend" floating around, or is there some truth to this?

MSgt Rick Hovik — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:16:01 -0500

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 12:20 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:20:08 -0500

Depends on the AFSC...but DirtBoyz are in no way having issues! We exceeded our retention goals in every zone....one of them by 135%!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 12:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 12:27:31 -0500

Anyone who thinks that the lack of direction and some of the head-scratching activities that we've been involved in lately doesn't trickle down to the ranks is deluding themselves.
Lack of training dollars is a real threat to retention.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 1:30 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 13:30:14 -0500

I would say that there are always some jobs that have retention issues. Like 2T3X7 "Fleet Managment & Analysis" is one of those thankless jobs. Our job is being contracted out too civilians and the new program that the AF is pushing will ultimately replace our job almost entirely. In the next few years I can see a retention issue as we are not being able to go to too many places outside of the US. Minus deployments to the Middle East.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 2:27 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 14:27:10 -0500

The AF pushed to many people out when they did the down sizing a few years ago especially on the aircraft maintanance side. The 62nd at Luke is mostly civilians because they can't get the numbers. other small issues that are adding up is lack of training, workload, and increasig shorti missions. Flight line workes are making it happen and really thinking hard about staying in. You can only push so much to keep the jets flying before the workers break.

Response by SSgt Mike Hogan made Nov 19 at 2015 3:38 PM

SSgt Mike Hogan — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 15:38:23 -0500

I had 2 sons in the AF. One got out, the other is in his 2nd enlistment, but seriously thinking of getting out because of the issues with benefits..housing, medical etc.. Low pay, deployments and TDY's. He says it just doesn't seem to be what he was told when he enlisted 7 years ago. He doesn't mind the deployments/TDY's but he's tired of being told they are going to change is Housing benefits, and the crap he get when a family member needs medical. The other issue is slow promotion. I told him this is nothing new in the AF. My other son was an F16 engine mech.. he got out because civilians working by his side were making more money while doing the same job and didn't have to put up with the AF crap.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 19 at 2015 6:06 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 18:06:12 -0500

I have noticed when a military shrinks itself, it shrinks too much due to folks wanting get out.

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Nov 19 at 2015 9:08 PM

SMSgt David A Asbury — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:08:34 -0500

Speaking from someone who has been out for a while, but I seen where they were cutting career fields with overages and allow cross training in to the shortages. Not sure if they have done this lately. I would be surprised if they were having problems since they are cutting authorized streneght levels.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Nov 19 at 2015 9:44 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:44:28 -0500

My assumption would be many AFSCs are fine, and many are hurting.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2015 9:58 PM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:58:25 -0500

The Air Force has opened up accessions for prior service Airmen again. The last time we did that was in 99 right after we let too many Airmen go and couldn't meet end strength numbers. I don't know if it is as much a retention issue as it is an issue with the number of people we kicked out on the premise that we were going to get rid of certain weapon systems. As we all know those weapon systems didn't go away but the people were already gone.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2015 2:12 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 14:12:33 -0500

Definitely has to be some truth to it. We have a variety of critically undermanned jobs across the AF. And Early Retirement at 15 yrs being and available option doesn't help with retention either.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 24 at 2015 7:37 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 07:37:26 -0500

All it would take is a "Green to Blue" program with the Army. Allow Soldiers who wish to switch branches the opportunity, and I guarantee every AFSC will soon be at max capacity.

Response by SrA Brian Shipley made Nov 24 at 2015 8:35 AM

SrA Brian Shipley — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:35:32 -0500

There is quite a bit of truth to this. From personal experience and hearing stories from friends still enlisted, the flight line side of things is looking very grim. With the large amount of people given the boot during the force shaping stuff and the lack of new blood to fill the gaps, the AMUs are having a hard time keeping up with the ever increasing flight tempo.

From my personal experience: I was one of 3 people who were able to troubleshoot problems with specific systems in the air frame the unit had. The level of work I was doing was that of a SSgt, and I was a SrA. This might seem like a way to get a lot of recognition and awards during my 3 years at this base. Unfortunately the 12-14 hour shifts, 7 days a week for months at a time at home station were never thanked besides a hearty pat on the back. This was a major factor to me getting burnt out, wore out and fed up. I was going above and beyond my pay grade for years but people who did about half the work I was doing got award after award because they had the time to do volunteer work, or take classes during their off time.

I was also very vocal about only having a couple of people able to do the work I was doing and repeatedly asked for people to train. The higher ups would always say that they would think about it or they couldn't afford to move people to the shift I was working.

I never received the pleasure of going TDY or even deploying. I was always left behind to work on hard broke jets, or train new people to the unit on how to do simple jobs properly. A lot of the time I was working the same, if not more, hours as the deployed folks with less days off. They might as well used the area around me as target practice and gave me deployment pay.

Doing more work than most of the people in my unit, getting less recognition, besides getting told "Good job" by the production staff because they got to meet their numbers, is a quick way to show someone they aren't appreciated, and an even faster way to make sure they don't stay around.

From what I hear the situation hasn't gotten any better at other bases. In fact in some places it's gotten worse.

Response by SSgt Michael Hacker made Nov 24 at 2015 9:31 AM

SSgt Michael Hacker — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:31:24 -0500

So you're saying I have a chance to go back in?

(That was sarcasm. Me, a 46 year old with a Master's degree... going back as a SSgt. Maybe if they start handing out direct commissions to O-3... )

Response by MSgt Anthony Youngblood made Nov 24 at 2015 9:35 AM

MSgt Anthony Youngblood — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 09:35:12 -0500

With all of the unnecessary changes being made to not only the Air Force, but also the other branches, it is no wonder people are fleeing military service these days. now with talk of totally revamping the retirement program, why would anyone want to join up and become a lifer? I spent 26 years in the Air Force and have seen my share of changes, but what is going on now makes me glad I hung up the uniform. My advice to kids these days is to join, by all means a great experience, find a job that can be used on the outside, go to school and have the military pay for it, take your degree, VA benefits, practical experience, salute smartly and get out to go join the private sector and make real money, with a real pension, and live happily ever after.

Tony Y. MSgt USAF, (RET)

Response by SSgt Rick Brooks made Nov 24 at 2015 11:41 AM

SSgt Rick Brooks — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:41:30 -0500

I was recently at the Military Flight Training USA conference at Randolf AFB, TX. This retention issue was discussed but it was mainly centered around pilot shortages and the shortages of pilots in the commercial airline industry. I most likely think the retention issue is not an urban legend if you look at the numbers from a high level.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 2:04 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:04:16 -0500

Yes they are

Response by A1C Daniel Drake made Nov 24 at 2015 4:54 PM

A1C Daniel Drake — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:54:18 -0500

This cannot be an urban legend. I performed the national anthem for literally twice as many retiring SNCOs and COL/LT Cols as I saw new boots arriving on base.

Response by SSgt Jamie Ritter LeBlanc made Nov 24 at 2015 5:07 PM

SSgt Jamie Ritter LeBlanc — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:07:10 -0500

Usually it's in low manned career fields. In the last 19 years I've seen two force reductions immediately followed by we need to beef up again. Unfortunately you don't know until the last minute. If your career field is low manned I wouldn't worry about it.

Response by SSgt Paul Esquibel made Nov 24 at 2015 6:17 PM

SSgt Paul Esquibel — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:17:02 -0500

Well I know sir the Air Force Times had posted back in June that due to the projections for 2016 they would allow personnel to come back on active duty for two years for certain career fields. I have inquired through AFPC and currently the list for those targeted career fields has not been identified

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 24 at 2015 7:11 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:11:08 -0500

i dont think they understand the impact it truly has on people. our guys are getting burnt out maintaining aircraft so we can produce training missions. even when the unit isnt deployed, we are slowly getting more and more fed up with our work. stress at work becomes stress at home and eventually people just give up on it. when that happens, everyone else has to pick up the slack and then they all get burnt out too. we end up dropping sorties because we cant fix planes fast enough without people, then we fly even more to make up for the lost sorties. congratulations, we have effectively crafted a maintenance death spiral. everyone is pissed and nobody wants to stay in anymore. we are forced not to do more with less, but to do everything with nothing, yet on top of it we are crucified when we make mistakes. sounds like some weapons grade bullshit to me. but dont worry guys, that "Atta boy" really cheers us up...

Response by SSgt Kevin Moynahan made Nov 24 at 2015 9:34 PM

SSgt Kevin Moynahan — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 21:34:32 -0500

I just think folks are getting burned out. 1:1 deployment dwell is hard to maintain indefinitely. When the AF draws down on people, but doesn't decrease airplanes or sorties, somethings gotta give. We literally cannot do more with less anymore. We're at the minimums to keep the planes in the air. That goes for both mx and ops. That's why I punched after 10 1/2 years with a line number for E6. I did my time, time to have a real life for a bit

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Nov 24 at 2015 9:41 PM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 21:41:16 -0500

Working for a major defense contractor now I talk to a lot of new hires who bailed prior to retirement and the main reason I hear is career uncertainty, the continual talk of reducing benefits. long work hours and lack of recognition for going the extra mile(s). It also appears the political brown noses have not been impacted by the cut backs.

Response by Lt Col Rusty Bullerman made Nov 24 at 2015 9:51 PM

Lt Col Rusty Bullerman — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 21:51:08 -0500

This has been an ongoing problem with the AF and all military branches. However, retention is a problem with all agencies and businesses. If there is a company that is willing to pay you more than your current company for your services, often the result is someone leaving that corporation to go to another. It is a game in many companies in which a person interviews and receives another job offer for more money to leverage his current company for a promotion/raise. From the military's point, in most cases, you can get a higher compensation from the civilian world that the military will pay you depending on your specialty. Obviously, infantry and tank drivers (or navigators, in my case) are not in high demand on the civilian market. The military's feast-famine personnel practices also make for personnel shortages. Last but not least, if the overall treatment isn't up to snuff (many deployments, long hours, strains on family, etc), people tend to look elsewhere for employment, both in the civilian and military communities. So, there are a lot of reasons why there may be retention issues. The military doesn't have the flexibility to make the job employee friendly like the civilian community does. In the civilian world, such measures are constrained by the bottom line (earnings and profits vis a vis budgetary limits in the military). I haven't noticed a significant difference in either community when it comes to retention. The military's options just seem to be more restricted.

Response by SSgt Stuart Schultz made Nov 24 at 2015 10:02 PM

SSgt Stuart Schultz — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 22:02:48 -0500

Happens every time there is a democratic president. "Small military"=people getting burned out. Freeze on promotions, lack of bonuses, more hours, less people. These are all good reasons to get out!

Response by SrA Jonathan Carbonaro made Nov 24 at 2015 11:03 PM

SrA Jonathan Carbonaro — Tue, 24 Nov 2015 23:03:50 -0500

I've been in 5 1/2 years and this is what I've seen. I've been told multiple times that we aren't going to pay you for budget reasons, education benefits are being suspended for budget reasons. I've worked in terrible conditions, for "leadership" that didn't care and didn't take care of its people. I've seen good, hard workers forced out of the military with little time left till retirement. The Chief of Staff just stated that we as service members no longer have the privacy when it comes to personal text messages. I could go on. I'm 2 years from completing my first contract, will I reenlist? I love my job, but if I can complete my degree before this contract, and depending what kind of retirement package the military is offering will sway my decision I'll more then likely get out.
Most of my friends, are looking at the outside as well. To many years of working 14 hour days, in crappy weather, to be told your check may not be there, for leadership that doesn't give a rats behind about you. Means that the retention rate will suffer.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Nov 25 at 2015 9:00 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Wed, 25 Nov 2015 09:00:21 -0500

The economy is getting better. This always leads to retention and recruiting issues in the AF, especially for high skill AFSCS. No biggie! This happens all the time and there are tried and true methods for fixing it.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 30 at 2015 1:26 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 13:26:51 -0500

Certainly some truth, especially in wonderful career fields like RPA pilots. Bonuses just went from $25K to $35K per year, but they haven't changed how they do their jobs (yet). Think it'll work?

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Nov 30 at 2015 11:46 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 23:46:02 -0500

Employment Opportunities are improving in the Outside World, Benefits Packages are improving in the Civilian World. Wouldn't surprise me that the Air Force has a little Competition Now.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 1 at 2016 9:13 AM

SrA Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 09:13:37 -0500

I really hate hearing this. I've been trying to go Air Guard/Reserve for a year now. I'm prior Air Force with two AFSCs and an active SCI. Recruiters won't look my way because I have tattoos. Just on the arms and easily concealable. Perhaps if push comes to shove, people like me will be given a fair chance to serve again.

Response by MSgt Jeff Greene made Jan 1 at 2016 6:30 PM

MSgt Jeff Greene — Fri, 01 Jan 2016 18:30:50 -0500

This has been going on the decades. The big draw down after Korea left us unprepared for Viet Nam. Numerous draw downs over the next decades left us unable to maintain mission capability with some of our aircraft. I was an admin troop for over 20 years then a 1st Sgt. I saw the people in my squadrons work crazy shifts just trying to keep the A/C in the air. As a SNCO I was put in charge of the engine shop for a month because we didn't have any other SNCOs. I was told the TSgts would run the maintenance and I would take care of the people. How strange is that. Even after being retired since 1991, the people at my base continue to tell me about how they are expected to more with less. The military services have cut all the fat there is and are now into the meat. The pace can't keep up without affecting something.