I am an E-5 who has served as the Platoon Sergeant for the last seven months. Can I be rated as a Platoon Sergeant?

2022-01-14T08:38:48-05:00

I came to this unit in April and was asked to take over as Platoon Sergeant in June due to a lack of Senior NCOs. My 1SG and Commander want to do a change of rater NCOER so that they can make sure I get credit for my PSG time. Unfortunately, they never slotted me as the PSG so that they could hopefully get an E-7 to come in, and the word is that I can only add PSG in as an additional duty. Is there any way to collect this experience and have it recorded as actual PSG time or was this just 7 months of practice?

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 9:21 AM

2022-01-14T09:21:17-05:00

Your NCOER will still be on an E5 plate, and your DMOS will be the para/line you are in, the duty description will be for the para/line you are in.
The rest of the NCOER can specifically address how you performed as an acting platoon sergeant.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 9:46 AM

2022-01-14T09:46:03-05:00

No matter where this lands, good initiative on you for filling the position and obviously doing well enough for your 1SG & Commander to want to get you the credit you deserve.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 11:40 AM

2022-01-14T11:40:26-05:00

You should be rated by the MTOE slot you are filling. Your bullets on your eval should reflect your platoon sergeant stuff. The problem with slotting is that if you were slotted in an E7 PSG slot, HRC see the unit as 100% in that slot and does not send a E7 to fill the position. At least that was the case when i was a 1SG and had to deal with slotting for my 350+ personnel company.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 11:48 AM

2022-01-14T11:48:28-05:00

What slot you're filling in emilpo means nothing to your NCOER. What is more important is, do you have key development (kd) time that you need at your rank? If your career model says you need x amount of time as a shop nco but you have a PSG NCOER, you never fulfilled your kd time as shop nco. Put the title that fulfills your kd time and make the comments reflect your actions as PSG. Unfortunately a 2166-9-1 doesnt go above "Met Standard".

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2022 12:39 PM

2022-01-14T12:39:37-05:00

You certainly can - if you're placed in the PSG slot for that time period. You have to be in a position with the same rater for at least 90 days to be rated in that position.

What you're slotted in within emilpo isn't a big deal because that can be changed in your assignment history. Sure you weren't slotted before, but it takes 10 seconds to slot you and change the effective date. Emilpo does not guide your rating, you did the job, you can be rated for it if you meet the requirements within the regulation.

Simple fix is that you have a change of rater that ends your previous experience and then starts your new job. It needs to be two separate NCOERs or it will have PSG as an additional duty.

Let's caveat all of this-it probably will not matter that you had PSG time as an E5 when the board reviews it. The pin on time for SFC is four years, and it will be several years until your records are reviewed by the board. The board usually looks at the last 5 NCOERs (not a rule, they just only have 2-3 minutes to review a record), and your current NCOER will most likely be in the past in several years once the board reviews it.

Response by William Barry made Jan 14 at 2022 2:41 PM

2022-01-14T14:41:31-05:00

Within the DMH system If I am filling another higher rated job for 90 days consistently I can apply for reclassification. Can that not happen here? I am well versed enough to know that a Platoon Sgt is not normally an E5 job. I thought they are normally squad leaders..

IN DMH I am an MHW2 which normally leads up to 5 MHW1 and secondary pool staff. THE MHW4 leads 10-15 MHW1; MHW2; MHW3s and sometimes watches over LPNs and agency staff too as well as secondary pool people. An MHW is a pay grade 17 and an MHW2 an 11 so there is a difference, but due to COVID 19 and IA, etc, it is possible for a situation to occur.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Jan 19 at 2022 9:14 AM

2022-01-19T09:14:30-05:00

$0.02, lots of great 1SG feedback already on this post, and especially SFC Private RallyPoint Member.

From a leadership development point of view, I really dislike the "one-up" philosophy. The time to promote had gradually gotten shorter with the assumption that time in a KD position is generally developing a leader for the next position, but we continually ask lower grades to fill our shortages while we wait for the Army to transfer or promote someone in. In this case, we asked someone 2 grades lower who may not have a complete understanding of the first higher job responsibilities, let alone that of a PSG.

I get it, we work with what we have, but to me, this is how crappy leadership starts to creep in. We take shortcuts with development and never go back to fill in the gaps. Some of you definitely do and it is evident by your replies.

I can imagine the 1SG never slotted SGT Private RallyPoint Member because they were afraid that would remove the position from the vacancy list, or they were being told not to double slot NCOs (which contradicts the latest from HRC BTW). So the NCO ends up feeling like they earned the PSG "badge", but in reality the SGT filled a capability gap.

In regards to the NCOER, would the rater actually be honest with the evaluation for the SGT in a PSG position and hold them accountable for the same level of responsibility as an E-7? Probably not, that would be absurd. Do they review the SGT for giving it the old college try? Most likely, but in that case, is it worth it? If the answer is no, then why did they take the NCO out of line and take away the opportunity of perfecting the TM LDR job and learning about SQD LDR?

To answer your question, it is practice, for exactly the reasons that SFC Private RallyPoint Member listed. The board will most likely not see this evaluation when it come time to promote to SFC. However, I hope that you had a valuable insight into the role and responsibility of a PSG such that it will help you be a better TM LDR and better prepare you for E6.

Response by SGT Mark Friedman made Jan 29 at 2022 11:37 PM

2022-01-29T23:37:31-05:00

I was a member of a USAR School in the late 80's. I was originally hired by the CSM to be an assistant PLDC instructor. That was on a Saturday. Sunday of that weekend in the annual planning meeting, he found out they needed to have a Combat Engineer instructor for the retraining section. There were 2 other 12B and 2 Special Forces Combat Engineer in the school. All were in what the Colonel and CSM deemed critical jobs.

So when I reported for drill in September of 87, I found myself as the sole member of this segment of the retraining platoon. An E8 slot. I was E5 looking to make 6...

My NCOER had me as a junior member of the retraining platoon. The comments from all three members of my evaluation team described my duties in support of the overall school mission. I got an outstanding review from all three.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2022 9:34 PM

2022-02-12T21:34:15-05:00

As i will advise any one… DA PAM 623-3 will be a great starting point. However, the bullets can attest to your performance. Regulatory and statutory guidance is always the place to start.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Feb 13 at 2022 3:57 PM

2022-02-13T15:57:29-05:00

Rated or not you would not be credited with time. The only advantage of having bullets referencing is to highlight the experience.

Example: when you are competing for MSG they will not review rated time as PLT Sgt as an E5. The experience is really the advantage here.