I already know the court rulings, but do you think that "breaking" the US Flag Code should be punishable?

2016-10-21T17:31:33-04:00

For everyone who has commented no I would like you to take a moment to think about the definition of Terrorism. Does burning the flag fall into that definition?

The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations defines terrorism as "the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives"

Response by SSG Steven Mangus made Oct 21 at 2016 5:32 PM

2016-10-21T17:32:42-04:00

Yes

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 5:34 PM

2016-10-21T17:34:31-04:00

Do you mean criminally? No. We don't get to protect just the speech/expression we like. Besides, who would enforce it? The flag police?

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Oct 21 at 2016 5:38 PM

2016-10-21T17:38:07-04:00

I would hope that Americans would honor it voluntarily and I'm glad that those who don't are easily identifiable

Response by MSgt Ken Flood made Oct 21 at 2016 5:42 PM

2016-10-21T17:42:07-04:00

Most certinly do!!!!

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 21 at 2016 5:54 PM

2016-10-21T17:54:26-04:00

The Flag Code in and of itself is not punitive. There's nothing in it describing punishment for not following it. It's Symbolic, just like the Flag is Symbolic.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Oct 21 at 2016 6:47 PM

2016-10-21T18:47:26-04:00

No. I am not a fan of forced patriotism or restrictions on non-violent protest even when I don't agree with the method.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Oct 21 at 2016 10:22 PM

2016-10-21T22:22:51-04:00

Yes, for deliberate desecration. As the flag code also says you're not supposed to wear the flag, all the olympians would have to find something else to wear when they win something.

Response by SPC Kevin Ford made Oct 21 at 2016 11:39 PM

2016-10-21T23:39:54-04:00

The true test of free speech is unpopular speech. That doesn't mean we can't individually condemn it, only that it should't be condemned by force of law.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2016 12:16 AM

2016-10-22T00:16:21-04:00

No.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Oct 22 at 2016 12:24 AM

2016-10-22T00:24:34-04:00

Even if it weren't a free speech issue, it would likely pancake on the principle of damages. What damages are there? Hurt feelings? We have an academic system falling all over itself to pander to hurt feelings. What's hurting those feelings? Free speech. So it's a matter of what's important to you is not as a matter of law a requirement for others to feel the same way. Now if you broke into a flag warehouse and burned 10,000 flags in free speech, you'd go to court on charges of burglary, destruction of property, trespass, etc. but not the speech thing.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 22 at 2016 12:25 AM

2016-10-22T00:25:27-04:00

how about 10 Kicks in the nuts by Vets

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2016 11:02 AM

2016-10-22T11:02:10-04:00

Yes I do. If the direct law is being broken, then the law breakers should be held to account. Personal beliefs are one thing but breaking the law is another. Let's respect the laws of the United States and if you don't like it, then feel free to leave.

Response by LTC Leonard M. Manning, Sr made Oct 23 at 2016 12:53 AM

2016-10-23T00:53:51-04:00

There is a "Flag Code" that says that desecration of the flag is punishable by fine or imprisonment. That being said the Supreme Court has ruled that desecration is free speech. I may not agree with SCOTUS decision but I took an oath to protect and defend. My oath compels me to protect and defend even that which find distasteful. We are American Veterans the oath we took does not expire; it was forever!

Response by SPC Mitchell Gainer made Oct 23 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-10-23T13:01:58-04:00

YES

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2016 4:50 PM

2016-10-23T16:50:37-04:00

I think Military members can and should be held to military regulations regarding the Flag, but civilians have the right, no matter how distasteful, to protest in accordance to the 1st Amendment.

in 1990, SCOTUS agreed. See United States v. Eichman

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-10-23T17:04:55-04:00

Punish someone for exercising his/her right?

The answer is obvious. However, I too have rights and I might exercise it in my choosing how I relate to the person.

Response by SFC Robert Dimitroff made Oct 25 at 2016 7:06 AM

2016-10-25T07:06:34-04:00

You don't defend something and then allow it to be disrespected.

Response by Capt Jason S. made Oct 25 at 2016 7:07 AM

2016-10-25T07:07:12-04:00

I tell people that the Flag represents all American past, present and future. If someone wants to desecrate it then they are also desecrating themselves. As a military member I swore an oath first and foremost to defend the U.S. Constitution. Freedom of speech is a right that is in our Constitution that I swore to defend. I do not agree with the action personally but it is within the rights I am bond to uphold.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Oct 25 at 2016 7:28 AM

2016-10-25T07:28:36-04:00

Yes it should be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 7:48 AM

2016-10-25T07:48:16-04:00

Yes. The code already has punishments listed. The SCOTUS I feel made a horrible decision in not sticking to the punishments already stated. Freedom of speech should be just that Freedom of "Speech". How is desecration of the flag so called "speech". It is an act. Using that excuse as reinforcing one's words is beyond retarded and should be punishable just as any other act that is illegal. I don't want to force patriotism but honestly if you don't support/love this country you are in, then GTFO, you are always free to move to a country you do support/love.

Response by Cpl Steve Coutee made Oct 25 at 2016 7:50 AM

2016-10-25T07:50:16-04:00

Yes

Response by SGT Philip Klein made Oct 25 at 2016 8:07 AM

2016-10-25T08:07:46-04:00

Response by Claudio Alpaca made Oct 25 at 2016 8:15 AM

2016-10-25T08:15:50-04:00

Derespect the flag islike derespect the country we serve, his insitutions, his Honor, his laws, is like derespect ourself. It is not adnissable an act like that of nreaking flag and also if there mey be situations of depresion, that may only be an attenuant but not justify such a act. The flag represent the country, our origins, patrimony, valors. How should we legittimate an act such as breaking it? It should like break ourself, our why and for we are, act fight, it should be like renegate our nature and essenceare

Response by MSgt Rosemary Connolly made Oct 25 at 2016 8:30 AM

2016-10-25T08:30:35-04:00

This may be a physical act of free speech but it's purpose is meant to hurt. Unless it's someone else's property then it should be punished. Punishable....not really. But they may be shunned by those they hurt. However, I don't wish to see our country like those that use punishments like caning for piddly offenses like chewing gum either.

Response by SPC Robert Worden made Oct 25 at 2016 8:43 AM

2016-10-25T08:43:17-04:00

While I would never violate the US Flag Code in any way, I still respect the right to free speech. I call myself a moderate. I have friends on the right and on the left who both disagree with me. However, as a DAV State Service Officer, I cannot allow myself to be drawn into an argument regarding politics, religion or patriotism. I am here to serve. Once I take a stand, I lose at least half of my veterans in need. I carry two copies of the Constitution of the United States with me at all times (one for me to read from and the other for whomever I am speaking to). This is for the purpose of simple reading what is written. How that is interpreted is guided by the Supreme Court and on our Country's past practice. I collect flags that are worn out to be recognized through a flag ceremony and not discarded in the trash. Yet, our freedom of the speech is just as important. Our Republic is based upon the fact that even in the beginning we did not all agree, hence the need for the amendments to the Constitution. We continue arguing about freedoms and restrictions. It will continue for generations. In the mean time I will continue to teach flag etiquette classes and in passing out copies of the Constitution with Amendments.

Response by Maj Walter Kilar made Oct 25 at 2016 8:58 AM

2016-10-25T08:58:59-04:00

Punishment by death. Just kidding. We all know the obvious, textbook answer is that burning the flag is protected under the First Amendment. For some reason, these discussions tend to treat the First Amendment with a different level of reverence than the Second Amendment. In the past dozen iterations of this discussion I have been through, I have challenged people to evaluate why we have laws that infringe upon or limit the Second Amendment, but not the First Amendment. The discussion usually goes into interpretation of the law. "A well regulated Militia... [*and or includes*] the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" means to some people that the right to bear arms only applies to the militia, while for others it means we all have the right to bear arms so we can form a militia (as being necessary to a free state... From a tyrannical Government). For some reason that wording has less protection in debates than this wording, "Congress shall make no law ... prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech". Some would argue that those words simply say A) that your freedom of speech extends towards towards the Government, not to other citizens and B) that the First Amendment simply says the federal government, i.e. Congress, cannot make a law making it illegal to, in this case, burn flags. The loophole in both of these is that States and the casual citizens tend to be liberal in interpreting the words in Second Amendment, but conservative when interpreting the First Amendment. Applying the same kind of logic (you decide) to both Amendments creates a different discussion.

If citizens and States can limit the Second Amendment by choosing liberal interpretations, why can we not limit the First Amendment likewise with liberal interpretations? If this were the case, then, as odd as it sounds, I might agree with the direction SGT Private RallyPoint Member is going and entertain the possibility of limiting the First Amendment by making it illegal to desecrate the flag of the United States. Heck, with the same logic, we should not be infringing on the right to display the "Confederate Battle Flag" (notice the quotation marks).

I am not saying I think desecrating the Flag should be a punishable offense, but I am saying I am not opposed to it based on how these discussions go amongst citizens, in the media, and, ultimately, in State and Federal courts.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Oct 25 at 2016 9:04 AM

2016-10-25T09:04:29-04:00

I would prefer Americans to respect the flag by choice, but unlike other countries such as Thailand, the United States has the 1st Amendment. We are not and never should be obligated to be patriotic.

Response by 1SG Daniel Foote made Oct 25 at 2016 10:15 AM

2016-10-25T10:15:11-04:00

I keep reading in the responses (and in the media) that desecrating the flag, not honoring the flag/National Anthem appropriately is the person's right of "free speech". The last time I checked, these were ACTIONS, not SPEACH. Free speech has to do with what you SAY, not what you DO.

If Free Speech is about what you DO, then I could run through a Police Department with a loaded gun, without fear of being arrested. Or I could walk into a religious house of worship, with a lit torch, without fear of reprisal. These are all ACTIONS, not SPEACH.

I do agree with the comment about forced patriotism. I think that is wrong. I believe people have the right to NOT stand, NOT place their hand over their heart (or salute as appropriate). I also think that for every action there IS a reaction. You may have the RIGHT to do something or say something, but that doesn't make doing that RIGHT.

Just as you have the RIGHT to do or say something, I have the RIGHT to disagree with that. I do NOT have to approve or agree with that. If you work in the civilian world and offend a minimum of 15 - 25% of your clients (the approximate decrease in NFL ratings this year), I wonder how long you'll keep your job? As an employer, I have the RIGHT to not want you representing my business.

So, SHOULD breaking the U.S. codes be punishable? I say it depends on how they are applied, what part of the Code is being broken and WHERE. To go to the extremes of some countries (beheadings, placed in prison with no chance of getting out or of a trial, etc), no. However, should an employer be able to fire you for violation of those codes, while "on the clock" (or even wearing anything that indicates who you work for), ABSOLUTELY.

In my opinion, any employer who allows someone to disrespect this nation and the American Flag, without some for of "consequences", is now condoning that behavior. To me, that employer might as well have done the same thing themselves. That employee represents the EMPLOYER, while "on the clock", so their actions that are not addressed by the employer are an approved action.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 10:25 AM

2016-10-25T10:25:03-04:00

Yes you should be punished for not following The Flag Code. Remember as a Soldier you have shouldered the great responsibility of defending all forms of expression and freedom while forfeiting some of those very rights for yourself. As a SGT you should definitely understand the reason for Soldiers not being able to enjoy those freedoms, could imagine every time you were given a task to complete and your Soldiers responding with "that offends me SGT or I'm not doing that because the SGM offended me earlier" and then not participating.

Response by SrA A.A. Hall made Oct 25 at 2016 10:52 AM

2016-10-25T10:52:18-04:00

Yes

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 11:46 AM

2016-10-25T11:46:18-04:00

By what means should the actions be punishable? And where is the hard line that dictates penalty for deliberate action verses unintentional actions? Would the enacting of such laws make our country stronger or seem much more despotic? Sure, it irritates me when I see people deliberately disrespecting the flag of the United States, but I also know that the protections of the 1st Amendment are very broad and protect even the expressions of symbolic speech that I may personally find repulsive. And sometimes, it is the bitterness of the lemon that we must accept for the sweetness of the tea.

Response by Cpl Paul Smith made Oct 25 at 2016 12:08 PM

2016-10-25T12:08:06-04:00

There are several emotions that this touchs. First, as a Patriot I believe that the Flag is a symbol of Nation and our way of life. To see it being burned and desecrated, hurts. It hurts that some don't have feel the same loyalty and love for our Nation and don't truly envision our way of life. Punishment should be a disertation of why they Love America, but hate whatever they are hating. Freedom of Speech! That means that each American has the right to express their feelings without fear of criminal charges or governmental retribution. Well, to some. But that isn't what it really means. It means you have a right to state your grievences, without fear of prosecution for those statements. In most Nations, speaking out against the leadership or laws, will get you arrested and either execution or long prison time. Our Founding fathers had that persecution from the King and deliberately included that we as a Nation of free people would not be persecuted for speaking out. I don't know how they would feel about burning the flag. The flag is a symbol, something we see and know what it means. That is why they choose to burn it. If they burnt a couch in anger, nobody would understand. To me, a protest with writings about the grievences and perhaps an assembly to get like-minded people to show unity in a peaceful way, would say as much and get more done then destroying things does. Laws are changable, we do not live in a stagnant pond of laws, but we also can't change every law to please all people. It is impossible to please everyone. Somebody is going to feel left out or underserved. It happens in a family and it happens in every Nation. The flag is but a symbol, a piece of cloth with the colors and stars that America chose to represent itself. Every State and every Country has one. Individual and identifiable. Why does someone chose to burn and desicrate the flag? They say, "to stir one's emotions!" To point out the angry and protesting group. To me, personally, they lose me when they hang the flag upside-down or burn it. I lose any interest in their cause or discussion. They have my will to help them move to another country and see if their desires are better served there. But that is just me being a Patriot and single minded to serve and respect the symbol of our Country!

Response by SGT Lee Hopkins made Oct 25 at 2016 12:41 PM

2016-10-25T12:41:52-04:00

100% yes. there is no respect or honor, these days especially with the younger 12-25 year olds. They have no clue about service, honor and respect. they just want a participation trophy.
a good 10K and year in jail sounds good

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 2:10 PM

2016-10-25T14:10:56-04:00

Within an organization with its own distinct subculture and rituals, such as the military, sure. Pushups, being voluntold to clean a latrine, etc. is fine in my opinion.
Punishable as a crime? No. While willfully disrespecting the flag is incredibly distasteful and base, the First Amendment is in place to protect the unpopular speech, not the popular one, and there is no harm done unless you consider it property of somebody.
I see all these people driving around with flags on their cars, which is fine. But what really disgusts me is that the flags become soiled and frayed and yet they are still being displayed. I wish I could stop this from happening.

Response by PO1 Don Mac Intyre made Oct 25 at 2016 2:35 PM

2016-10-25T14:35:40-04:00

Did you not swear to uphold and defend the Constitution? You don't get to pick and choose which parts you want to defend.

Response by CPO Zack Lindsey made Oct 25 at 2016 2:53 PM

2016-10-25T14:53:16-04:00

Dam great question I was ready to say yes and still in my mind and hart I say yes, and let me tell you when I see some one stepping on the flag or something else after the pledge it is my right to flip him off or if cause of me being clumsy trip and fall ( but say I'm sorry hey I did say I'm sorry just my thoughts

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 4:01 PM

2016-10-25T16:01:40-04:00

For everyone who has commented no I would like you to take a moment to think about the definition of Terrorism. Does burning the flag fall into that definition?

Response by SFC Dennis D Joy made Oct 25 at 2016 4:11 PM

2016-10-25T16:11:48-04:00

If breaking the code, which by the way is law, is should be enforced . Other wise we can pick or chose which laws "we" want follow or disregard. I know that some look at it as free speech, but honestly, I feel they are wrong.

Response by TSgt James Carson made Oct 25 at 2016 8:25 PM

2016-10-25T20:25:06-04:00

They should be enforced though I would like to see the US flag might be protected a bit better from just plain unrespectable people who are out for 15 minutes of fame in the news.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2016 8:43 PM

2016-10-25T20:43:49-04:00

Per JP 1-02, the joint doctrinal definition of terrorism is "The unlawful use of violence or threat of
violence, often motivated by religious, political, or other ideological beliefs, to instill fear and coerce governments or societies in pursuit of goals that are usually political." As you previously mentioned, the courts have determined flag burning, though distasteful, is protected speech and there not "unlawful". It's also difficult to define it as violence as this usually pertains to human injury.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Oct 25 at 2016 9:41 PM

2016-10-25T21:41:03-04:00

I do but to what degree I don't have an answer that might not be seen as unreasonable. I'm a bit of a zealot when it comes to my country and that which represents it.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Oct 25 at 2016 10:13 PM

2016-10-25T22:13:09-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. I have no doubt that most of you will disagree with me on this, that's your privilege and right. Flags are symbols of identification. In the military we don't serve the flag we serve under the flag. For us in classic combat the flag identifies where friends are and when the enemy is at. The flag barrier was up until the 20th. Century an honored position. When a flag barrier fell another pick up the flag and moved forward…In a defensive fight the flag was a symbol that you were still not defeated. All military honor the flag, that come with the job. For civilians, well some may feel they owe their allegiance to another country, although protocol says that one stands in respect for the flag go a country they are visiting or at award ceremonies like in the Olympics. In the US those that choose not to stand or show some other disrespect have that privilege also. Its called freedom.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2016 12:57 AM

2016-10-26T00:57:30-04:00

I will not deny the fact that it angers me beyond reason when I see people disrespecting our nations flag but this is America and part of what makes us the greatest country in the world is the freedoms we are given. We can't pick and choose what freedoms we are okay with and which ones we aren't or the whole system fails. As much as I hate to say it, they are doing what they think is right and we promised to ensure they continue to have those freedoms. To answer the question, Yes, I think it should be punishable but it is not so the best I can do is hope someone back in the states beats their ass for it.

Response by Jessie R. Smith Jr. made Oct 26 at 2016 8:23 AM

2016-10-26T08:23:18-04:00

About 6 months in a Federal Prison and a 20,000 fine is needed.

Response by MAJ Gary Rayl made Oct 26 at 2016 9:36 AM

2016-10-26T09:36:21-04:00

Yes I think they should but the Constitution trumps my opinion

Response by Maj Ken Brown made Oct 26 at 2016 9:49 AM

2016-10-26T09:49:37-04:00

This is how the court ruling came to be. Legislating protection of the US flag violates freedom of expression according to liberal interpretation of the First Amendment. Sadly, force by non-government individuals is about all that can stop individual incidents. Then comes social media postings and associated TV news stories.

Response by SPC Jacob Shepherd made Oct 26 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-10-26T14:57:42-04:00

No, even ignoring the "free speech" aspect, so long as the property being desecrated is their own, purchased at their own time and monetary expense, there is no cause for a person to be criminally charged. A national symbol does not because desecrated by its having been burned, tattered, worn as clothing, or improperly discarded, but rather when it is used to espouse values and beliefs antithetical to the nation's principles. The United States is a nation born of protest - its use in protest is profoundly appropriate.

Response by SSgt Michael Cox made Oct 26 at 2016 6:38 PM

2016-10-26T18:38:12-04:00

18 U.S. Code § 700 - Desecration of the flag of the United States, while you wont usually go to jail depending on were the flag is or the circumstances you will be arrested and fined still. As for it being considered terrorism no, disrespectful yes.

In my personal opinion yes you should be punished and go to jail for desecrating the flag. If you don't like the country move out don't destroy the flag or as we have seen on Facebook and the news personal property.

Response by Maj John Bell made Oct 26 at 2016 11:09 PM

2016-10-26T23:09:07-04:00

If I destroy or deface your flag I should be punished. If I destroy or deface my flag it is my business. The last thing I want is the US Government or one of the States telling me how to handle my own personal property, based on its symbolic meaning.

Response by SPC Charles Sands made Oct 27 at 2016 1:01 AM

2016-10-27T01:01:36-04:00

Look if any one of us was in a different country and burnt there national flag we would be lucky to see the light of day in twenty years. In some places they would just shoot us. So by burning stepping on are flag here should be meet with what is called out in Federal Regs. and every town should should make it clear that this is not right. If you feel that strongly about doing such then you might as well pack your bags and find a new home somewhere else. And/or lose all government assistance ie. food stamps, health care, SSI, SSD. VA, military retirement.

Response by CW4 Don Conlan made Oct 27 at 2016 7:02 PM

2016-10-27T19:02:39-04:00

For citizens: No as some consider it free speech; for military: Yes, because their contract with the USA forbids this type of speech.

Response by CPL Brian Clouser made Oct 28 at 2016 2:00 PM

2016-10-28T14:00:21-04:00

I believe that they should go to jail. I know that the count rule that burning the flag is covered by the 1st amendment. The 1st Amendment states that we have the "freedom of speech" It does not say the we have the "freedom of expression" which burning the flag is. The 1st Amendment was place there to protect the free exchange of ideas. Burning the flag express nothing but disrespect those that have die for what is stand for.
By the way, flying the flag up-side down is not disrespecting it. It means that the country is in distress

Response by PO3 Diane Policandriotes Goldsmith made Oct 28 at 2016 11:52 PM

2016-10-28T23:52:45-04:00

Our President nor any Democrat will enforce our Constitution. Everyone is afraid of Obama and the Clinton's.

Response by Bergman Oswell made Oct 30 at 2016 7:14 AM

2016-10-30T07:14:52-04:00

The First Amendment to the US Constitution is in direct conflict with any statute that prohibits freedom of speech and expression. Since that amendment starts with wording that flatly prohibits Congress from enacting such a law, that precludes any possibility of free expression being an unlawful act for terrorism purposes.

By the definition you are using for unlawful, running for political office would become terrorism if a candidate spat on the sidewalk before his speech.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2016 7:32 PM

2016-11-03T19:32:06-04:00

Are you considering flag burning to be unlawful force or violence against property? Are you thinking that it could be considered terrorism? If one purchases the flag, its theirs to do as they wish so long, as the saying goes by a former SCOTUS judge, as; "The right for you to swing your fist ends when it hits me in the nose".

Response by PO3 Diane Policandriotes Goldsmith made Nov 17 at 2016 8:08 PM

2016-11-17T20:08:09-05:00

First warning, Second Fine, Third Jail.

Response by MAJ Gary Rayl made Nov 24 at 2016 12:00 PM

2016-11-24T12:00:50-05:00

No terrorist activity is defined by law lets not open the door to watering down real problems with that which we don't like.

Response by SGT George Duncan made Dec 27 at 2016 10:36 AM

2016-12-27T10:36:59-05:00

IF WE CAN'T TAKE SOME CRITICISM WE TRULY ARE LOST...

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Dec 28 at 2016 11:45 PM

2016-12-28T23:45:05-05:00

CUT SLING AND MOVE ON!

Response by PO2 Sam Tkach made Dec 29 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-12-29T14:39:15-05:00

No, burning of the flag does not fall into definition of terrorism, but it can fall into the definition creating a hazard, such as burning anything in public could lead to a widespread fire, and depending on circumstances, people doing it, can be arrested for that.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Dec 30 at 2016 1:27 PM

2016-12-30T13:27:03-05:00

According to title 18 U S Code there is a punishment for violations of the code. It's just never enforced because of the ACLU and other bleeding hearts.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Dec 30 at 2016 1:30 PM

2016-12-30T13:30:08-05:00

United States Code Title 18 deals with the flag and it clearly states the punishment of a fine and up to one year in jail.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Dec 30 at 2016 8:30 PM

2016-12-30T20:30:03-05:00

burnining the flag is Not speech, kit's an act of intimidation., to those that respect and revere it. It represents many races within our borders. Many have served under it, many swore by it to uphold the Constitution and protect this land from all enemies both foreign and domestic..

Response by SFC Jim Ruether made Jan 10 at 2017 2:50 PM

2017-01-10T14:50:25-05:00

So burning an American flag in my opinion does many of these things. Burning the flag is an unlawful use of violence against the symbol of our country. Some would say the American Flag is just a piece of cloth. I say it represents the men and women of our great country who not only died for all of us defending our freedom but they also laid under it before their own burial to remind us of the selfless sacrifice they made. So burning it in front of me will intimidate me and/or coerce me to put my fist in your face in the furtherance of my political and social objectives. Thank you so much for clarifying this for me.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Jan 16 at 2017 6:05 AM

2017-01-16T06:05:43-05:00

If they do it when commiting domestic terrorism, yes it should be charged as part of it. If doing a so-called peaceful demonstration and they burn it, it should be charged as "civil disobedience" and be charged all applicable court fees, fines(to including
Lack of a 'burn permit', not for burning the flag but for having a fire. Most likely
They would not have a proper burn receptacle, so fine them for that too!).

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Jan 16 at 2017 7:39 AM

2017-01-16T07:39:56-05:00

That would mean that everyone wearing a flag t-shirt, bikini, hat, pants, and any other of the myriad of clothing would be subject to "punishment". And what about all those hyper-patriotic athletes who drape themselves with a flag? Send them to jail?
The flag code is a guideline for the people that care.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jan 16 at 2017 8:54 AM

2017-01-16T08:54:26-05:00

Like all touchy-feely "feel good" laws that come out, the brutal reality is that someone has to

a. enforce it
b. punish it

Case in point: the city of Cocoa passed a "no sagging" ordnance to keep the youth from wearing pants low to show underwear. On the first day, the city arrested a ton of youth. Then the city realized that those youth have to be housed and fed in a jail, ticketed (time spent by cops) and then a judge actually had to come in to the court room and hear the case, try the case, sentence the case, etc. In other words, the lazy made 300 times more work for themselves. Well-meaning folk were then publically told on tv to "fuck off" and the law quietly died the death that it deserved.

The do-gooders and keepers of order bleated loudly but were then shouted down by a sage veteran that told them to concentrate on something important like feeding the homeless.

Response by SP5 Robert Ruck made Jan 18 at 2017 1:36 PM

2017-01-18T13:36:14-05:00

I deplore those who desecrate our flag. With that said I agree that this action constitutes a type of free speech and should. It be punished. I also think any punishment for so called hate speech is wrong. Where would it end? Eventually any person who disagreed with those holding power would be silenced through force of action. We know through history where that leads.