I agree with this, Atheists need Chaplains also.

2013-12-04T08:32:31-05:00

http://www.newsweek.com/atheists-foxholes-want-chaplains-too-207609

Response by SFC Rocky Gannon made Dec 4 at 2013 8:50 AM

2013-12-04T08:50:06-05:00

I beleive that all soldiers should have a Person of their belief to be able to talk too and help them when they need help.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 4 at 2013 8:59 AM

2013-12-04T08:59:20-05:00

It isn't so much that I need a "Chaplain", per se, as much as it is that I'd like to be able to talk to someone who is actually QUALIFIED to be giving me counseling or mental/emotional/psychological guidance or counseling.  I'd much rather have a licensed psychologist than a man or woman who has a degree in bronze age mythology/superstition. Religion adds too much of a judgemental aspect... There are countless gay Soldiers who need counseling right now who are denied it because they don't meet the approval of their chaplains god of choice... It's a shame.

Response by SSG Gordon Hill made Mar 10 at 2014 9:37 PM

2014-03-10T21:37:33-04:00

Why, atheism means without religion, why do I need someone preaching at me

Response by SSG Gordon Hill made Mar 23 at 2014 1:35 PM

2014-03-23T13:35:44-04:00

Why would a person who does believe in any higher power need someone who is going to force religion on them even if they no I do not believe. How about they have a Humanist speak them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-03-23T15:29:07-04:00

Wouldn't an Atheist chaplain just be a social worker or psychologist? I am pretty sure we have access to those.

Also, most Chaplains I know will provide assistance and mental aid, without referencing their religion, if you don't believe and inform them of that.

We had a chaplain who worked across the hall from my funeral honors office who rarely spoke of his religion/God unless we brought it up. He'd generally be playing old school rock and jamming out in his office.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 7 at 2014 4:02 PM

2014-04-07T16:02:32-04:00

Why? What would they do? Atheism is a lack of belief in something... we aren't members of a religion so why would we need a chaplain? Hands on the table, I am a member of the Atheists in Foxholes group, but I don't really understand the complaint. So there aren't any humanist chaplains in the military. I am a humanist... what would I need from a chaplain? I just don't get it. What services could they provide that another chaplain, psychologist, or psychiatrist couldn't?

Response by SSG Matthew Thomas made Apr 7 at 2014 4:14 PM

2014-04-07T16:14:49-04:00

I would only agreed because in my eyes the Chaplain was a seasoned member of the military which you could talk to. I would not consider myself a religious person but I would visit the chaplain during a time of crisis in order to find guidance. 

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2014 5:12 PM

2014-04-07T17:12:25-04:00

I think if we look at how these words are defined; you will see that it's needed, and the roles people hold when it matters.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 9:51 AM

2014-04-14T09:51:38-04:00

I have seriously contemplated trying to to the Chaplain route for the Greater Nature Religions (Pagans [I am a practicing Asatru Norse Pagan]).

Response by MSG Brad Sand made May 11 at 2014 11:29 PM

2014-05-11T23:29:46-04:00

Rocky.

Atheists should be the first to say they do not need a Chaplin. Agnostics would be the first to tell you that they are not sure if they need a Chaplin?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 4:40 AM

2014-05-18T04:40:27-04:00

I'm probably what you'd call an atheist - although I don't believe any of us knows for sure - but the first person I went to after coming back was the chaplain. Not so much about religion as confidentiality.

Response by SGT(P) Gloria Francis made Jun 25 at 2014 8:15 PM

2014-06-25T20:15:47-04:00

They have always been a misconception about Chaplains. It seems that you all have never visited a Chaplain's office or spoken to one. Chaplian's do not force religion on anyone. They counsel you on various problems. They are train in all religion or non religious beliefs. If you are against going to a Chaplain then go to ACS and find a regular counselor that you have more faith in. An ACS office is on every post

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jul 8 at 2014 11:36 AM

2014-07-08T11:36:10-04:00

Seems to me that "Atheist" and "Chaplain" are mutually exclusive terms. If you want confidentiality there's only two reliable places.....Priest/minister/whatever and Doctor. May not seem fair, but who ever said life was fair anyhow? I'm not unsympathetic, but we all pay a price for our ways (optional or not).

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2014 5:56 AM

2014-07-10T05:56:49-04:00

I am not entirely sure to what end. Posts that I have read in the thread haven't really shown me what services cannot be provided by a chaplain as they exist now. I am in the Navy and a Buddhist. There is only one Buddhist chaplain in the Navy, so I certainly do not have the ability to have my religious needs met per se. No, every chaplain is trained to meet the counseling needs of every servicemember. On the other hand, every chaplain is required to have training in counseling. In the Navy we say that every chaplain has two collar devices. One indicates rank and the other denomination, meaning that every Navy chaplain is a Naval officer first and a denominational chaplain second.

Interestingly, I don't think atheists would really be interested in having a counselor/advisor whose job title is believed to be derived from St. Martin of Tours and the keepers of the relic of his cape.

Finally, I would submit that the military already billets psychologists and psychiatrists, so the capacity filled by chaplains is a different role.

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jul 16 at 2014 3:46 AM

2014-07-16T03:46:10-04:00

An Atheist wanting a chaplain is called a hypocrite or not a real Atheist. I don't care how bad of shape I'm in, I don't want some mumbo jumbo being spewed over me. Now if the Chaplain wanted to just talk as person, not as a religious figure, thats fine. Be a man, a human, an officer, a fellow veteran but leave the book and collar outside.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 23 at 2014 8:51 AM

2014-07-23T08:51:29-04:00

Atheists have Chaplains...they are called "Chaplains". Chaplains, regardless of faith, are available to talk to SM's, no matter what sect/caste/religion/whatever the SM is... it's part of their job.

If you need to talk to somebody, and a Chaplain makes you squeamish with the possible god talk, you can call the vet center, your director of psychological health, military one source, the VA( not the best with the current backlog)... there are literally dozens of options. I told my Joe's flat out that I'm available 24/7, and anyone who tries to make someone feel bad for seeking help will be pushing large piles of rocks into small piles of rocks until *I* get tired.

We, as leaders and military members, NEED to remove the stigma associated with seeking out mental help when it is needed, no matter what source the help is sought from; otherwise our soldiers/airmen/etc will never look for help until it is too late. Battle losses are unfortunate, but acceptable; losses from people who refused to seek help because their peers would mock them is not only unacceptable, but disgraceful. Look after the man and/or woman to your left and right and realize they ARE your brother and sister in uniform and then react accordingly.

Response by Capt Jeff Quinn made Jul 23 at 2014 6:33 PM

2014-07-23T18:33:47-04:00

If the atheists/humanists, etc. can find a school that will give them the credit hours to meet the chaplain minimum requirements - then they should go for it- and good luck by the way. Perhaps it is simplifying the debate to state a board certified psychologist or a Unitarian Universalist military chaplain (they are out there) couldn't attend to most of their questions or issues.

From what I have seen, the only atheist school out there that is accredited is the New College of Humanities in London- and at $30K per year for this training, a bit expensive for the average "chaplain" to pay back. Per the chaplain reg's (and no leniency should be granted IMHO), a person trying to get in should meet the following minimum requirements.

•You must obtain an ecclesiastical endorsement from your faith group. This endorsement should certify that you are:
◦A clergy person in your denomination or faith group.
◦Qualified spiritually, morally, intellectually and emotionally to serve as a Chaplain in the Army.
◦Sensitive to religious pluralism and able to provide for the free exercise of religion by all military personnel, their family members and civilians who work for the Army.
•Educationally, you must:
◦Possess a baccalaureate degree of not less than 120 semester hours.
◦Possess a graduate degree in theological or religious studies, plus have earned at least a total of 72 semester hours in graduate work in these fields of study.

-Jeff

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 12:29 AM

2014-08-07T00:29:04-04:00

chap·lain noun \ˈcha-plən\
1: a clergyman in charge of a chapel
2: a clergyman officially attached to a branch of the military, to an institution, or to a family or court
3: a person chosen to conduct religious exercises (as at a meeting of a club or society)
4: a clergyman appointed to assist a bishop (as at a liturgical function)

athe·ism noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
1: ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Do we see why the whole "Atheist Chaplain" thing doesn't work? I mean, come on now..

And you know.. just because you're "atheist" doesn't mean that you can't go and seek counseling or guidance from a Chaplain. Everytime that I've talked to a Chaplain, God or religion hasn't even come into the conversation unless I brought it up.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 7:58 PM

2014-11-14T19:58:26-05:00

I would love to have a chaplain to talk to who doesn't try to pray with me, or tell me that they hope I find God.

Response by SGT(P) Gloria Francis made Nov 15 at 2014 7:43 PM

2014-11-15T19:43:21-05:00

Atheists(non-believer) and Chaplains (believer)
Putting those two words together is an oxymoron. Why would an Atheist want a Chaplain?People just want something to complain about.
PROBLEM: An Atheist does not feel comfortable speaking to a Chaplain
SOLUTION: Bypass the Chaplain's office...go straight to your ACS and find a counselor!!!
Many of you are counseled by ACS personnel who are spiritual believers but have no complaint. Yet because a Chaplain wears his badge of honor outwardly you automatically assumes he/she is there to pour out his spiritual belief on you. Stop judging...isn't this what you request spiritual believers to do? Why ye hypocrites!!
While I do understand common sense is not common we should do our best to not be the problem but be the solution of a problem. Let's stop prejudging people based on religion, race, gender, nationality, etc... We are here to help one another. At the end of the day we are all human beings. Regardless of our beliefs we all come into this world by birth and leave the same way...by death.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2014 8:58 AM

2014-11-17T08:58:29-05:00

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the idea behind a chaplain to provide religious guidance? Also, as I understand, a chaplain is versed in multiple religions, which is why they can counsel so many, there should be no need for an "Atheist Chaplain" because chaplains should already be versed in how to counsel an Atheist. Next order up, the chaplain is NOT the only one who has confidentiality. I have read a few posts of people afraid of the stigma of behavioral health, let me tell all of you, your obligation to your unit is to tell them you have an appointment, not to tell them what it is for. If you self refer yourself, provided you dont say anything incriminating (like you wanna kill yourself or someone else) they too have confidentiality laws. and lets not forget about MFLAC(those people who always hang out and say "if you ever need someone to talk to...") they too, have confidentiality laws(every unit has them so if you havent found one yet, ask around), and God forbid you confide in your battle buddies. There is no need for another useless title in the military, let alone an oxymoronic one. If I offended anyone, I'm not really sorry, please educate me on how im not being empathetic enough; and to everyone else, I hope I gave you, if nothing else, a couple more options to think about. Have a good one

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2014 10:04 PM

2014-11-23T22:04:21-05:00

By Atheist (A - without, theo[deo] - God), are we to believe that as a group the belief is that there is no God? Why would someone who truly believes there is no God or spiritual being beyond this realm need spiritual guidance? Just want further clarity on the issue.

Response by SGT Javier Silva made Nov 24 at 2014 12:26 AM

2014-11-24T00:26:24-05:00

SFC Rocky Gannon - Atheists do not receive a Chaplain because it is not a recognized religion. Even some atheists that I know do not consider themselves religious. We have gotten into many heated debates and discussions but agree that they are not a religion.

Response by CPO Bernie Penkin made Nov 24 at 2014 11:34 AM

2014-11-24T11:34:38-05:00

I have often wondered how an athiest chaplain would counsle folks in their time of need since they don't believe in God or any other diety. For example a junior enlisted person just learned his fsther died while he was deployed. What would the chaplain say? Would he give the kid a pat on the back and a cup of coffe followed by some lame remark? The purpose of a Chaplain is to provide spiritual counselling and guidance.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 29 at 2014 8:26 AM

2014-11-29T08:26:29-05:00

By definition, a chaplain is a religious guide. If an atheist wanted a religious guide, wouldn't they not be atheist? As far as I know the military provides mental health care so if counseling is what someone needed, wouldn't that be the avenue they would address?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Nov 29 at 2014 9:16 AM

2014-11-29T09:16:45-05:00

From my interactions, chaplains are first and foremost a confidential sounding board and don't sway the conversation towards religion unless you go there first. I'm Roman Catholic and have sought confidential advice from Protestant, Episcopal, Baptist and Jewish Chaplains. For me it was about getting answers to questions and dealing with emotions. I'm not diehard in my personal convictions, but don't think any chaplain would turn away or try to convert an atheist who is seeking support.

I have also had a very interesting conversations with an Islamic and Buddhist Chaplains, not hbso much for seeking advice, but for trying to learn about and understand the religions.

Response by SCPO Ralph Hensley made Nov 29 at 2014 9:18 AM

2014-11-29T09:18:00-05:00

Not sure how an atheist can have a chaplain. If one doesn't believe, then one doesn't believe. I know I'm oversimplifying.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 30 at 2014 12:02 PM

2014-11-30T12:02:41-05:00

That whole 100% confidentiality WITH RANK is a big thing.

As an atheist and an RP I can't stress how important it would be to bring in a Humanist Chaplain for the groups not covered by the Chaplains who are religiously affiliated.

Response by LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2014 9:50 PM

2014-12-01T21:50:47-05:00

I find it somewhat ironic that people who are not atheists purport to know what type of support atheists need. Having spent time with counselors, chaplains and psychologists, the best support came from the (1 of 4) chaplains that tried to empathize with me without bringing in their religious beliefs, but using mine as the foundation for discussion. Unfortunately, in my experience, they are the minority.

Having a chaplain that shares my beliefs, is one step closer to that instant empathy and more importantly, understanding from a perspective that is similar to my own. If you don't think that I, as a fellow servicemember or more to the point, human, deserve that, I've still got your back, but question if I can trust you on my six.

Response by MSG Greg Kelly made Dec 5 at 2014 2:53 AM

2014-12-05T02:53:39-05:00

I really hate to write anything about this subject because it seems so Ludacris it seems to me all you soldiers complaining you have no one to talk to are making assumptions about Chaplin's not being in touch with issues today. I had a Chaplin friend who was also a CIB winner we talked about his training they are taught to deal with all religions and to deal with soldiers who are Atheists, abused, gay and have emotional and mental issues you cannot imagine. But of course as those who believe they are special are apt to do they complain and have not found out the facts or ask for some absurd thing like atheist chaplains. Atheists do not believe there is a god of any kind so if there were chaplains for it that would make it a cult which means you must worship something. AHHHH this is crazy go to Chaplin and ask for their help I'll you will be surprised.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 5 at 2014 3:41 PM

2014-12-05T15:41:57-05:00

I believe that everyone needs a Chaplain SFC Rocky Gannon. Does that mean that every denomination out there should have a Chaplain that represents it? No. A Chaplain is so much more than a spiritual guide. A Chaplain is certified in so many areas to include counseling, some have other certifications in the behavioral sciences, etc. A Chaplain is a great resource that is available for ALL Service Members and their families.

I have relied on Chaplains on numerous times throughout my career. Sometimes it was for me and sometimes it was for my Soldiers. I never once inquired about the denomination of the Chaplain or the Soldier or family member who was asking for help/guidance/counseling. Chaplains are there for everyone...regardless of denomination.

I understand that this may steer from the original intent of your question, but I thought that I would share my thoughts.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2014 7:59 PM

2014-12-26T19:59:10-05:00

Kind of hard to meet the qualifications as a atheist.

Response by SSG Genaro Negrete made Dec 27 at 2014 1:13 PM

2014-12-27T13:13:14-05:00

I would like to believe that the commissioning requirements for theology majors would be more involved than just throwing some CPT's bars on your shoulders and sending you on your merry way.

The term itself, Atheist Chaplain, seems like an oxymoron. It sounds like the services provided by social workers, psychologists, and the like. ACS has those services, behavioral health has those services. If you're looking for something truly anonymous, Military Family Life Counselors are available and they don't keep ANY records. Though any service where you speak intimately with a counselor will have a stipulation that certain types of talk aren't protected, ie plans to hurt yourself or others.

The system is fine just the way it is. The service is there and available. Perhaps making them more well known through out the ranks would help.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 27 at 2014 9:57 PM

2014-12-27T21:57:51-05:00

Some times you just need someone outside the squad to talk to!

Response by CW3 Stephen Mills made Jun 27 at 2016 10:21 AM

2016-06-27T10:21:30-04:00

Atheist have chaplains, they are called counselors. Once you take the religion out of the Chaplains programs that is what you are left with. Also, I have never had a chaplain ask me what religion I was or if I even believed in God when I talked to them about anything.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2016 11:11 AM

2016-06-27T11:11:18-04:00

Here is where I have an issue. Atheism, being the belief of non-belief, would be extremely hard to represent. Not so much as the actual act of representing them (Chaplains already do this), but in the actual appointing of a Chaplain. Because in order to become a Chaplain, you have to have continued education AND ministry in the field, based upon your sponsoring body. I'm reasonably certain that Atheists don't have a church (since Atheism is the ABSENCE of religion). So how do you appoint a Chaplain (by definition, a religious leader) to a faith that has NO faith at all?

Now, to caveat this, I do believe that there should be Pagan Chaplains in place. But it is difficult to represent them too, due to the missing Endorsing Body.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2022 1:24 PM

2022-09-27T13:24:01-04:00

This is still a major topic. So far it continues to get shut down.