How would you respond if a soldier used their religion as a reason to take unapproved days off from work?

2018-06-06T07:55:44-04:00

So my supervisor mentioned to me that one of our soldiers simply called in today to let him know that he is simply taking the day off today or tomorrow because he is a 7th Day Adventist. We are actually in the middle of an exercise. He didn't really know how to react to the phone call. Curious to hear what your thoughts would be. Aren't they able to have a Chaplain come wherever we are no matter the time? We are on night shift (1800-0600). I'm a Christian as well (Roman Catholic) who tries to go to church every Sunday, but I don't just call in trying to take the entire day off for religious reasons during an exercise. Thoughts?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 6 at 2018 8:15 AM

2018-06-06T08:15:48-04:00

I have never heard of a 7th day Evangelist, I've heard of and do Bible study with 7th day Adventist (I'm Evangelical).

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2018 8:25 AM

2018-06-06T08:25:17-04:00

Air Force instructions do include provisions for time off for holy days as a religious accommodation. For some faiths there are actual work restrictions that go beyond simply having a chaplain come in for a worship service. AFIs (and DoDIs) state that commanders will accommodate faith practices except when doing so would adversely impact the mission, readiness, morale, safety, or good order and discipline. An exercise is not the mission but it could impact readiness. Religious accommodation is a commanders decision. If I were this unit’s chaplain I’d advise the commander to adjust the individual’s schedule so he could practice his faith and still contribute fairly to the exercise. Religious accommodation doesn’t mean you get out of work. It does mean we can arrange work around faith if possible. All that being said, calling in the morning of a holy day and saying you’re not coming is in the WRONG way to go about accommodation. Is this a brand new holy day? Has it not been on the calendar for a thousand years? Could this soldier have mentioned the holy day weeks ago and worked with leadership to arrange an accommodation that met his faith needs while still contributing to the mission? Probably. The earlier you plan ahead the easier it is to get an accommodation. The unit chaplain and the commander need to make sure the unit knows how to go about securing accommodations so every servicememver can practice their faith without compromising the unit.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jun 6 at 2018 8:31 AM

2018-06-06T08:31:50-04:00

Disclaimer: I am not an internet 7th Day Adventist, and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night.

1) If you know you want a day off, when the unit is working, you don't call in the day of... You let the command know somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 days out, ESPECIALLY if there is a field exercise. Call-ins are for unknowns (I've just been in a collision and am on the way to the Emergency Room... or My wife is in labor...) I don't care who or what you are.

2) 7th Day Adventists observe the Sabbath from sunset Friday evening until sunset Saturday evening. Your post is dated Jun 6th, a Wednesday. Nor does the 7th Day Adventist church have a holiday on June 6th. If the soldier is claiming sabbath or holiday observance, he is not being truthful. If it was in observance of the Sabbath that the conflict arose, where was this soldier on every other Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath. Surely this cannot be the first time a conflict arose.

2a) Has the Soldier claimed a dietary accommodation? As 7th Day Adventists have strict dietary prohibitions, very similar to strict observance of the kosher diet amongst orthodox Jews. If not why not.

2b) What religion is documented in the soldiers Service Record Book (SRB)? If this is a recent conversion, the soldier should meet with the command and layout any religious accomodations required. Those accommodations should be run by the nearest 7th Day Adventist Chaplain or in the absence, an ordained minister of a local 7th Day Adventist Church.

3) The 7th Day Adventist Church feels that military service is incompatible with church dogma and doctrine, but recognizes that it is a personal choice. That said, the church strongly encourages that a military calling be answered as a non-combatant (medic, chaplain, etc.)

Never happened to me, but I heard from the third toilet on the left, that false claims of religious accommodation can run through a unit like crap through a goose. This case needs to be run down. If it is valid, the Command and the soldier need to determine if the soldier's continued military service is in the Army's and the soldiers best interests. If the claim is false... the soldier needs to be crucified on the road to Rome.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 6 at 2018 8:49 AM

2018-06-06T08:49:58-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Sure he can do that ....But with actions come consequences.
He has failed to be at his appointed place of duty at the appointed time.
Religious accommodations are allowed, but the when and how are at the commanders discretion.
If the SM truly does not know this (ahh there are some failures on his and leadership there) and in all other ways he is a good SM, Id make this a learning point, and move on.
If the Sm is a all others performer, if he is pushing back, Id be recommending NJP and at the conclusion of his punishment, it wold be time for initial counseling and education on the likely forthcoming separation. he would be told he has full control to make the packet invalid and hit the shredder, but as well, his previous and future actions can be the cause for the chapter packet being fully justified, and sent forward to the separation approval authority.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 6 at 2018 9:00 AM

2018-06-06T09:00:22-04:00

You know, it's funny you say that...when I was in, the chapel where I was would have synagogue for Rosh Hasahanah and Yom Kippur, many others as well as !uself, admittedly, did take time off, it was years ago, I suppose I was more bitten by the religious bug then, I guess...generally, we were also allowed Passover, for certain days of it, though, of course Hanukah always coincides with Christmas, and Passover with Easter, for the most part...some would also take Shavuos and Shemini Atzeret, two of the lesser known ones, I never did, I kinda thought that was pushing it...actually, a civil servant I was under was pretty observant, so he did take time off as well...just some observations, I've gotta admit, that was an interesting thought...my wife kinda absorbed me into her whole Pentecostal world, I kinda got drawn into their vortex now, instead...you know, happy wife, happy life and yes, dear.....

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 6 at 2018 9:34 AM

2018-06-06T09:34:39-04:00

1. He is in deep trouble- AWOL for starters, and religion won't help him. 2. Any Church, sect that I have ever heard of has a calendar for it's Holy Days/worship days. 3. Therefore he had advance knowledge of when to request time off for religious activities. 4. He did not request time off in advance, and calling in doesn't wash. 5. We have chaplains thru out the service who could have -1- Held a service/visit during duty hours for him. 2. Granted an absolution/pass/etc. for him because of duty. Sm needs to be counseled,/written up, and someone need to talk to a Chaplain on the fine points of 7th Day Adventist- if the SM is lying, then UCMJ Action.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2018 9:37 AM

2018-06-06T09:37:09-04:00

Scammers are scammers...I'm sure there's a pub somewhere covering "due notice" for such things.

Response by SPC Joseph Wojcik made Jun 6 at 2018 9:45 AM

2018-06-06T09:45:35-04:00

"Suck it up and drive on." I worked past sundown on Fridays and pulled CQ on Saturdays, all without even thinking about pulling the religion card.
The way I see it, when you sign your life away to your nation your personal life has to take a backseat to duty.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 6 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-06-06T11:53:12-04:00

Wrong, Wrong, wrong! Was this previously discussed or planned? Was it approved before hand by the commander? You should order him to report in. Use this as a learning situation but this SM as created a opportunity for corrective training and recommendation for punishment under UCMJ.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Jun 6 at 2018 12:01 PM

2018-06-06T12:01:23-04:00

Why did he let them take an unapproved day? He should have said "no you make sure you're at your shift tonight otherwise you will face repercussions."

Response by Cpl Mark A. Morris made Jun 6 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-06-06T12:18:53-04:00

Give the SM 30min to get to barracks. Because, the GySgt and 1Sgt want to whisper sweet nothings in the SM's ear and PT their arse until they puke.
Right after that, the whole Company can take a break with ice cream and donuts.
The new improved military understands every one is special. The mission is secondary.
What a little ****ing s*** bird.

Response by TSgt David Holman made Jun 6 at 2018 1:15 PM

2018-06-06T13:15:50-04:00

Honestly, if there was no previous communication about the religious accommodation, then this member needs to be brought in, and refreshed on policy. As other members have pointed out, I would definitely do a little digging and see if there were even a religious event today or tomorrow, and if there were not, then I would flag them for failure to go.

Response by CPO Charles Helms made Jun 6 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-06-06T14:35:23-04:00

There are no days off at sea!! On a carrier you work 7 days a week at sea!! Back in the day divisions were under manned due to the war in Vietnam ending and a draw down of troops!! So every body answered the bell!! I would place him on report!!

Response by MAJ James Woods made Jun 6 at 2018 5:16 PM

2018-06-06T17:16:59-04:00

He's AWOL, simple as that. Federal government and military has already identified the religious holidays and events that can be observed by personnel.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 6 at 2018 5:48 PM

2018-06-06T17:48:35-04:00

I would let him know that he has an expectation to be on duty unless otherwise previously approved by me. Otherwise he is AWOL and possible failure to go. I would let him know if he didn’t report for duty there would be consequences. Religious accommodation is worked in concert with the mission and is a commanders decision and at the Commanders discretion. If he would have brought it to me in advance I would have heard him out, conferred with the Chaplains, and if possible and it met the regulations and it DID NOT impact the mission I might let him have it but you just don’t not show up for work and claim religious accommodation the day of without prior coordination. I would probably see to it that he has all the time he needs for his religious accommodation as a civilian.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Jun 6 at 2018 6:03 PM

2018-06-06T18:03:50-04:00

As a former commander, this is unacceptable. You cannot make that decision on the spur of the moment. I always arranged ahead of time when I needed to be away for religious reasons and all my troops did the same. Sometimes you can't take off, then you do the best you can, where you are.

Response by SGT Russell Wickham made Jun 6 at 2018 6:44 PM

2018-06-06T18:44:46-04:00

This is an all volunteer military. When you volunteered, you place the mission first. I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I was raised as one, but chose to leave the church during my military service, and rejoined shortly after leaving active duty. I was still in the reserves when keeping the Sabbath as God commanded became important to me, and I made arrangements to serve alternate days to cover all the Sabbaths I could, and did my duty on those I could not, and then chose to leave the service rather than continue to violate my conscience. If your SM cannot do his duty because of religious convictions, he needs to leave the military.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 6 at 2018 6:57 PM

2018-06-06T18:57:12-04:00

Your supervisor handled it better than I did. I would of driven there with a police officer and dragged his scrawny tail section straight back to the unit. Pass privileges revoked.

Adventists take the biblical Sabbath to heart, I get that part of it. That doesn't give them cart blanche to just call in today. This article is good reading and explains the Adventist views and service in the military.
https://spectrummagazine.org/article/gary-r-councell/2012/07/23/adventists-and-military-service

Adventists and Military Service

Recruited to serve, individuals who enlist as Christ’s disciples in His Remnant Church quickly discover they are engaged in a great, cosmic conflict...

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Jun 6 at 2018 7:03 PM

2018-06-06T19:03:03-04:00

Totally unacceptable. If I were this soldiers commander the First Shirt would probably have to physically hold me back from hand delivering an Article 15 to this troop. Things may have changed some since my days, but the needs of the "insert your service here" come before all else, Chaplains are there to meet the needs for those religious things that duty prevents one from observing. Yup, I'd hang this soldier high and worry about bogus IG complaints later.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Jun 6 at 2018 8:08 PM

2018-06-06T20:08:55-04:00

If he wants to get a day off for religious reasons, he has the ability to submit a DA Form 31 to his first line, along with his Portal travel risk assessment, and his LES. Upon reciept of documents, his first line should inform him that his leave will be forwarded to the PSG/Section SGT. The PSG/Section SGT kicks it back with a request to ammend his dates that will not hamper the unit mission in the exercise. Maybe even counsel him on when it’s appropriate to take leave and when not to. Your religion doesn’t make it a higher priority over the mission.

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jun 6 at 2018 10:53 PM

2018-06-06T22:53:52-04:00

Congress recognizes conflicts between religious observance and military duty. That is why there is a Chaplain Corps. Chaplains can adapt rites to meets a unit's schedule and location. And, servicemen must accept the service any Chaplain offers or they go without.
Sailor's work until they are granted liberty or leave. Ashore, it is a gentlemen's agreement that liberty is granted at regular times between M-F. But, it is not a guarantee. There is a lot of small print to read before we take the Oath. After, "I do", it's too late to complain.

Response by SPC Douglas Bolton made Jun 7 at 2018 1:47 AM

2018-06-07T01:47:53-04:00

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Made the wrong choice.

Response by CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 8 at 2018 10:56 AM

2018-06-08T10:56:16-04:00

I’m not familiar with 7th Day Evangelist. I have heard of Seventh Day Adventist and Seventh Day Baptist. Both groups normally observe the 7 day Sabbath from sundown Friday night to Sundown Saturday. They are afforded religious accommodations for worship. It’s best to have your unit Chaplain to speak with the Soldier to determine the individual’s religious preference. It’s generally up to the Commander when it comes to these type of concerns regarding field problems FTX’s.

Response by Cpl Mark Gray made Jun 8 at 2018 7:17 PM

2018-06-08T19:17:55-04:00

Use to be he'd be AWOL, regardless of reason. and charged with such.

Response by SGM Joel Cook made Jun 10 at 2018 12:52 AM

2018-06-10T00:52:45-04:00

I was witness to a similar type event in Panama about 1992. We had a relatively new SPC in the unit. He had about 30 days in the unit. He was of the Jewish Faith but did not seem to practice all the dietary restrictions nor did he attend services at Synagog or military Jewish faith services. One day he did not show up to work and was reported failure to repair. Chain of Command called his quarters and got no answer. So his Platoon SGT was sent to his quarters to do a health and welfare contact to see if he had met with an accident or some such. Platoon SGT went to his quarters and knocked on the door and the soldier's wife answered the door. He asked her if the soldier was home and in good health? She said yes but it is the Jewish High Holiday of Yom Kipure and no work is allowed to be done on that day. Even answering the phone is not allowed as it is considered work. That explained why he didn't answer the phone. the Platoon SGT went back to the unit and briefed the 1SG and CDR on what he had found out. 1SG then went to the soldier's quarters and read him the Article 32 and briefed him on upcoming ramifications of not showing up for work without notifying his Chain of Command, asking for a day off, pass or leave in conjunction with this holiday. He then let him stay at home for the rest of that day and told him to report to 1SG's office the next morning. Long story short he got a Company Grade Article 15 and lost one rank over it. Chain of Command said they gave him this light punishment as a benefit of the doubt after considering a field grade Art 15 and loss of all rank.

Response by SSG Robert Schell made Jun 12 at 2018 4:21 PM

2018-06-12T16:21:18-04:00

I would give him a lawful order to stay at his duty post, or perform his duty, and counsel him on the consequences. If he still insisted that he would disobey that order, I would then march him right up to the appropriate officer in his chain of command, and have the officer give him a Direct Order to stay at his duty station and/or perform his duties. I would then counsel him in accordance with whatever the protocol is these days, and then should he disobey the direct order I would write him up under the appropriate section of the U.C.M.J., which I believe would be an Article 15. If he wants the day off he applies for a pass. Your religion shouldn't matter to doing your duty. If he just up and went over the hill, I'd write him up for AWOL.

Response by SSgt Heather Capra made Jun 16 at 2018 2:47 PM

2018-06-16T14:47:02-04:00

Not permitted hands down. Everyone must put in for leave and be approved. If not then that person is AWOL even if they called in to say they were not coming in. This is the military not a civilian casual job. We all know that when we joined we are military first everything else is second. Mission first, that includes training.

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Jun 18 at 2018 6:39 PM

2018-06-18T18:39:54-04:00

The answer is in the question, unapproved

Response by SGT Ramon Nieves made Jun 22 at 2018 1:47 PM

2018-06-22T13:47:29-04:00

I would say that in the military if you are awol there is no excuse for that. If you have a religious belief you discuss it the your minister , Priest, etc.

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Jun 22 at 2018 11:30 PM

2018-06-22T23:30:09-04:00

"God/Creator gave us REASON not RELIGION!" Wrote our Thomas Paine some 240 years ago! Right there, that is the, "Litmus Test!"

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Jun 22 at 2018 11:56 PM

2018-06-22T23:56:24-04:00

I have to add the following. I was raised Roman Catholic, from age 6 to 16 I was an Altar Boy. I can recite the Lords' Prayer in Hungarian, German, Latin and English. As I got older, (76) and observed, learned a lot, never enough of that, but I came to the conclusion, that religion is but a form of suppression, restriction on individual freedoms and a 'Tool' in the hand of the Control Freaks, amongst us, going back to the, 'Shamans', 'Witchdoctors' ,starting from the times when there was ignorance, primitive superstition, and historical figures like, Moses, Mohamed, in recent times Joseph Smith and countless others, (Charlatans), have swayed, brainwashed, convinced the naïve, trusting ignorant masses of humanity. All through the ages, Religion and it's offspring, IDEOLOGY, have been used and implemented, to cause immense suffering and inhumane horrors, for humanity. Religion and Ideology turned into the, "CURSES of MANKIND!" We can observe what is taking place in the name of religion and ideology in the Middle East, Palestine! Between the forces of, Zionist-Judaism and Islam, with the Christian Zionist Zealots, chipping in, murdering hundreds of thousands and creating a Biblical Human Flood, that is engulfing Europe. Who gains? Why is all this happening? The root of all this, inhumanity, is found in the TORAH/OLD Testament, and it is Justified by those Fairy Tale, Horror Stories found in that volume of Plagiarized collection of, embellished, made up, epic/sagas! Read, "GILGAMESH!" the story of the Sumerian King, 3 thousand B.C. long before the Hebrews are ever mentioned. Gilgamesh and his family/friends, are the original 'CHOSEN PEOPLE", also the 'GREAT FLOOD", originates from there. The Hebrews adopted it, made it their own, around 15 hundred B.C., when they were in the Babylonian Captivity!!! Learn Read don't take what they feed You, Take everything with a lot of skepticism and a , TON OF SALT!!

Response by SFC James Tihanyi made Jun 23 at 2018 12:03 AM

2018-06-23T00:03:12-04:00

"LOVE THY NEIGHBOR LIKE THY SELVES!" That simple 'Golden Rule', supposedly preached by Jesus, is ALL that WE, all of us, should take into our Hearts and live by! That would turn this lovely, accommodating, beautiful Planet of ours into, "HEAVEN". But NO!!! Because of RELIGIOUS CHARLATANS and Control FREAKS of various IDEOLOGIES, we live in, HELL!!!

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 9:47 AM

2018-06-24T09:47:15-04:00

Okay, this military member knew that they were going to have religious beliefs that conflict with a military lifestyle. And only now they choose to avoid field time with zero notice? It is time to get paperwork started to out process for failure to adapt, with an RE code that inhibits going into any other branch of the service. This person knew that there should be notifications made and only did so when it fitted their own outcome. I don't know, but I am sure that there are many enlisted eyes following this situation. This unit may have a lot of "converts" to anything that gets them out of field time. Again, if command staff and chain of command knew nothing about their religious status, then hit them with out processing paperwork. And make it well-known that if you suddenly let us of your religious status, then you will have to deal with the consequences. The biggest question I have is, "How are they going to perform and react if the bullets start flying, when they refuse to go into the field for training?"

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Jun 28 at 2018 11:57 AM

2018-06-28T11:57:26-04:00

Mission first- commander's discretion. You can accommodate if necessary- but it is not something someone would call in and ask me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2018 12:51 PM

2018-06-28T12:51:42-04:00

We are here to protect Democracy, NOT practice it. That what I was always told...

Response by 1SG Dale Cantrell made Jun 28 at 2018 4:34 PM

2018-06-28T16:34:53-04:00

Without prior knowledge and approval, denied, just like the civilian life

Response by Sgt Vance Bonds made Jul 1 at 2018 2:35 PM

2018-07-01T14:35:25-04:00

Nope. Religious leave is fine, With advanced notice. Can't allow it to hurt mission or the unit.

Response by SGT Jeffrey Badger made Jul 1 at 2018 3:52 PM

2018-07-01T15:52:08-04:00

If it's not an emergency leave situation then the soldier is responsible to go to work. The military will honor religious holidays with the proper pror approval from the commander. Unless it's during an important training exercise that cannot be made up at a later date.
Not all jobs honor every holiday that pops up on the calendar. The military is no different. The soldier signed a contract and it's up to the soldier to honor his agreement. When I served, there was no calling in the day you wanted a religious day off or any day off. You had to request day(s) off. And definitely didn't get time off during a training exercise.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2018 8:48 AM

2018-07-02T08:48:20-04:00

Its called AWOL, and fry him like a catfish

Response by GySgt R Harbick made Jul 5 at 2018 11:59 AM

2018-07-05T11:59:20-04:00

Sounds like the dirtbag is trying to pull a fast one - push some boundaries. 1stSgt needs to have a bit of a “Heart to Heart” with the young man out back. (Or take the cheap way out and run his ass up on an NJP for UA.)

Response by MSG Lonnie Averkamp made Jul 10 at 2018 12:40 PM

2018-07-10T12:40:28-04:00

On the first day that we arrived at the Special Forces Qualification Course, the Master Sergeant there reminded us of the Rights that we DIDN'T have there. He told us that, since the Draft had ended more than three years ago, no one had been forced into the Army, and so everyone there was a volunteer; he said that since Jump School was totally voluntary, we had all volunteered for that; he said that we then had to volunteer to attend the S.F. Qualification Course. He said, "Your rights ended, three Volunteers ago".

Everyone in the Armed Services has "Volunteered" himself/herself out of Civilian Life, and so has advocated some rights, in order to accomplish the Mission. While it is important for Supervisors to be respectful of the Religions and Cultures of their Troops, they cannot be used to imperil the Mission. Unless that soldier can show an enlistment contract stating that he is exempt from duty on Saturdays and holidays, Xin Loi' about that.

Response by GySgt Greg Nemeth made Jul 12 at 2018 11:40 PM

2018-07-12T23:40:19-04:00

He needs to step up and take responsibility.

Response by SSgt Robert Atkinson made Jul 13 at 2018 9:10 AM

2018-07-13T09:10:03-04:00

I’d tell them it’s their duty before God as soldiers to serve if not officially released! Archbishop Sheen says the vocation of soldier is next in dignity to that of priest. Priests, ministers and Rabbis work on holy days without sin, it’s their vocation!! Defense of our nation is the soldier’s vocation! 2 Maccabees Says it’s the soldier’s duty to defend his nation on holy days!!

By all means request Sunday’s and holy days off, but your duty, before God, comes first!!! That is your, God given vocation and he will bless you!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2018 4:08 PM

2018-07-13T16:08:46-04:00

As a priest I agree with you. If the soldier had intended to take a religious holiday during an exercise, I would have expected him to have alerted his command prior to actually taking that leave.

Response by SGT Linda Moss made Jul 13 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-07-13T18:46:59-04:00

He would be AWOL and get charges as such. You know ahead of time about holiday per sec. Yeah it was a mission not war but what is he going to do call out in the middle of a way because it is a holiday? Very few religions to not have a way to get a exception to something.. My understanding that you can even get permission to do certain thing on Holy days from a rabbi . This is bullshit and he need to be come down on like a ton of bricks.

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Jul 16 at 2018 12:23 AM

2018-07-16T00:23:35-04:00

Jon - your supervisor didn't really know how to react to the phone call? WTF? I assume that your Supervisor is a SFC or above; who should know, without much thought, how to handle that call. Or maybe I've been retired too long (1 June 2001) to understand the Leadership Dynamics in today's modern military. Four years Navy (including 2 years or so off the Coast of Vietnam from 1972-1974) and 26 years in the Coast Guard - all active duty.

The Chief Petty Officer I used to work for during those 2 years onboard the USS MIDWAY just turned 80 years old last week; I know that because I talk with Herb at least 1 to 2 times a month. I stay in touch with him because he, more so then anyone in the military, taught me about leadership, doing a good job; not only to work hard as a team but to also have fun not only at work but off duty as well. Because of Herb after I got out of the Navy and decided to join the Coast Guard that I would do the best I could do and to rise as far (rank wise) as I could. Not only that - Herb has one of the quickest (even at 80) wits and funniest senses of humor of anyone I've ever served with.

So, what would the Chief say? I would echo his words, for he taught me well - he would say, something like this: "Soldier, there are times when you are expected to follow orders that may or may not impact your personal life. When you enlisted in the Army you surrendered parts of your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness so others can be guaranteed theirs. Soldier, you are absent from your assigned duty station; you have 30 (OK an hour if necessary) minutes to report before me in your uniform, with all your gear necessary for your participation in the exercise we are involved in or you will be placed on report for AWOL." From this your supervisor can go one of two ways: (1) if the soldier turns up counsel him that an unauthorized absence, regardless of the reason is subject to disciplinary actions; and then give him the opportunity to request, up the chain of command, to see the chaplain so he can work with the chaplain on how to request (and when he can request) the time off to pursue his religious beliefs. (2) If the soldier doesn't report when ordered then place him on report for being Absent Without Leave.

The bottom line - how your supervisor and what actions he takes is wholly in the hands of the soldier himself.

On a side note Jon - Google Jehovah's Witnesses and their position on military service. If not against military service they believe in a non-combatant role.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 16 at 2018 8:50 AM

2018-07-16T08:50:31-04:00

What rank WAS this soldier?

Response by PVT Charles Asshole made Jul 26 at 2018 8:32 PM

2018-07-26T20:32:35-04:00

Almost all faiths issue dispensation for military personnel. Jewish and moslums May eat pork if an alternative can not be provided, Hindi can eat meat if nesisary etc. under the circumstances their will be a stink over freedoms of religion but the president is set, articl 15 may be in order (dependent on the troops additude when counseled) a conversation with JAG and the Chaplin may be in order first just to make sure you do it right.

Response by SP5 Arthur Ben Ephraim made Jul 29 at 2018 8:09 PM

2018-07-29T20:09:12-04:00

I've gone AWOL before, Sky'd Up and it is unprofessional, but it happens. cut 'em some slack unless he's jihad or neo-Nazi etc.

Response by PFC Robert L. Gonzales made Aug 1 at 2018 4:02 PM

2018-08-01T16:02:37-04:00

I am a Catholic who observes all the church's "Holy Days of Obligation"...HOWEVER. I recognize that the military is a FULL TIME job with no exceptions for Sundays or any other day. What the Hell are you gonna do when the SHTF... holler out..."Wait stop the war. I have a religious obligation"...I can understand consideration (by command) stateside but it should not be considered a right. Don't sign up for the military if you're not "ready to go at a moment's notice"...period.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Aug 3 at 2018 3:39 PM

2018-08-03T15:39:13-04:00

My size 12 steel toes have been known to evoke a few religious terms of motivation.

Response by SFC Matthew Del Rossi made Aug 4 at 2018 7:14 AM

2018-08-04T07:14:30-04:00

He will be told in person that he is to report to work. On that day his team leader and myself will show to escort him. If he refuses a counselling statement will be done and would recommend UCMJ.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2018 7:23 PM

2018-08-04T19:23:51-04:00

As far as I am concerned, they would get in trouble the same as if they had called in saying they wouldn't be in because they had sudden, unexpected out of town visitors...or any number of other things that are not valid "urgent" reasons for time off and should have been planned for in advance. In fact, the visitors seems like a better excuse for last minute asking.

And, if they were planning in advance as they should have been, they still wouldn't get the time off for religious purposes unless I could give other section members similar time off, regardless of their religious activities. Either everybody gets 6 (non-emergency) hours off during the exercise or nobody does.

edited to clarify "non-emergency" time off

Response by CPO Dave Royce made Aug 5 at 2018 12:39 PM

2018-08-05T12:39:13-04:00

Well , I really don’t know how thing and done in
The military today . But I never heard of calling
In , especially when this individual knew of this,
It’s it like this event only happens once in a live
Time , So this person calling inmust be young
In the Military and doesn’t know the proper channels , of which to request a day off , Especially during a field exercise , I’m sorry , but I’m a Christian too, there for I would have ordered you to the base, or Ship, what ever. And you would get proper instruction on filling
Out a request chit , for time off ,

Response by John Parker made Aug 15 at 2018 11:59 AM

2018-08-15T11:59:46-04:00

Although you may not be a soldier first, service is voluntary and you need to have approval before taking a day off. You cannot claim religious exemption for all purposes and need to follow your commander's policies on taking days off. If your commander decides it will not be detrimental to the unit, he can grant the request. If he needs the soldier or feels the soldier needs this exercise, it's acceptable to deny it. After all, if it were during war or deployment, the commander may not have the choice.
The commander should be fair, but weigh all factors... Including the affect on the religious soldiers performance which may be affected by lack of religious observance
There may be a half way mark where the soldier is exempted for church, but that may not be available as some religions are particularly strict when it comes to Sabbath observance.
My advice, grant requests on a case by case basis

Response by SSG Carlos Garcia made Aug 17 at 2018 6:25 PM

2018-08-17T18:25:04-04:00

I am Jewish, and like the 7th Day Adventists we celebrate the Shabath, and all High Holy Days. Although, their those of you that might feel that we're just using our religion as means to avoid our duties you're all just wrong. When I was ordered to the field I went and took with me my Tallit, and Siddur along with my phelacteries and did all my morning prayers in the field prior to exercises.

Response by PO1 John Richards made Aug 22 at 2018 7:13 PM

2018-08-22T19:13:39-04:00

No you request in advance for approval, when I was in that call U.A. (Unauthorized) and you felt the consequences.

Response by SFC Rapfeal Mayfield made Aug 27 at 2018 6:07 AM

2018-08-27T06:07:15-04:00

The Soldier should have made prior arrangements. If I had a soldier come to me, I would do everything I could to try to accommodate the Soldier's religious needs, but If it is not presented in time do me to do something, it's not my fault. Being in the military you know you have obligations you have to fullfil, and training exercises is one of them.

Response by Capt Dennis Tague made Aug 29 at 2018 12:29 PM

2018-08-29T12:29:06-04:00

Isn't the keyword here *unapproved*?
Known/recognized religious holidays aren't sprung on you in the middle of an exercise.
Where to begin ... AWOL, dereliction of duty, failure to repair?

Response by SPC Angela Bolster made Aug 31 at 2018 2:12 AM

2018-08-31T02:12:15-04:00

My Platoon Sgt was the same religion and he didn't do that. We didn't get a choice to either. I'm Wiccan and we have different holidays and religious practices. They were respected, but being at NTC, we were not able to get any extra time off. I'd say suck it up.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Aug 31 at 2018 3:56 AM

2018-08-31T03:56:11-04:00

I've read the books enough to know that the deity is supposed to be omnipresent and omniscient. No one has to go to a special building to practice their faiths when their deities can hear their thoughts... It's not like God has spotty WiFi and needs you to be in the building...

Response by PO1 Robert George made Sep 3 at 2018 6:57 PM

2018-09-03T18:57:30-04:00

this happened to me...
underway in western pacific in the mid-70's. i've forgotten the reason but we were tasked to put a full days work on a sunday. i'm the leading petty officer(BM1). half my division decided to go to church. no chaplain on board so it was a lay service. i'm pretty tuned in to my people and know who usually goes to services. i checked with chief and divo to make sure i wasn't creating a bigger problem with my solution and then laid it out. mustered them up church-goers on the right all others on the left. left side see your junior petty officers for work assignments and go to work. church-goers go to church. services are over at 1100, chow line closes at 1200. report to me for work assignments by 1215. non church-goers knock off at 1600. church-goers knock off at 2000. anyone not reporting or late will be sent to captains mast(office hours). the usual church-goers went to services(and knocked off at 1600). most of the "church-goers" lost their religious zeal and went to work. the ones that 'got religion' worked til 2000 under my direct supervision. issue never came up again.

can't deny personnel the right to go to church but...

pays to know your people.

Response by 1LT Steve Kettel made Sep 11 at 2018 10:29 PM

2018-09-11T22:29:31-04:00

Very poor form. This is active duty?
Sounds like Article 15 territory.
SDA is very strict and ritualistic: yet the Soldier sounds more like an opportunist.
How was the PSG and 1SG caught off guard? Part of the exercise planning ought to have included accommodations for religious observance for those in the minority (SDA, Jewish, Islam, LDS)
Doesn't the NCO Creed cover this??
This is NCO business. The CDR should only have heard the solution as it was happening, or if the Soldier was HHC and integral to its function, where he was and why on that Sat AM.

The Soldier needs some retraining, and intervention with the SDA chaplain. I doubt he would tolerate this either, and be able to offer a militarily sound solution.

Sorry, but as wrong as the Soldier's behavior was, I have to lay this at the feet of his NCOs. This was completely preventable.

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Sep 13 at 2018 9:00 PM

2018-09-13T21:00:07-04:00

THE TIME AND PLACE TO WORSHIP NOT CALL IN AND TAKE A DAY OFF YOU GO CHURCH ON SUNDAY OR SATURDAY NOT DURING WORK DAYS IM CHRISTAN MAN FOR YEARS BUT HAVE THE CHAPLIN AND COME TO THE UNIT TO HAVE PRAYER SERVICE BEFORE WORK?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2018 4:33 AM

2018-09-16T04:33:33-04:00

UCMJ.... We don't have the option to simply call in tell our "boss" we are not coming in. All recognized federal holidays are published. If you want off outside of them request leave or pass.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Sep 16 at 2018 8:12 PM

2018-09-16T20:12:42-04:00

Nope, just bagging it and claiming a religious observance as a reason to drop out of scheduled training is NOT the way to handle it. This needs to be coordinated with the chain of command and the Command Chaplain well in advance. We need to practice in peacetime for what we would do in war, so what happens if the unit gets deployment orders? I am a Christian, but I have quite often performed military duties on the Sabbath. Needs of the service, and "render unto Caesar," eh?

Response by SFC Wade W. made Sep 22 at 2018 12:20 AM

2018-09-22T00:20:08-04:00

I was a Seventh Day Adventist for my last 8 yrs in service and other than (just like every other service member) trying to get to a service when I had the time, I never took "time off" because of my religion. Now, I don't know if that makes me a bad Adventist but that is between God and me. When I enlisted I was not an Adventist and that is why I never really pushed the issue and I did not claim to be a Conscientious Objector as most Adventists are because my contract with the Army was in place long before I converted.
With this issue I would take this up with a Chaplain. My personal opinion is I don't like some soldier using my faith to sham. If he really is an Adventist he would have already talked with his chain of command about his faith, the Sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) and worked everything out. He also would have brought in a letter from his Pastor attesting to his faith and asking for a meeting with his chain of command.
I do not want to call anybody a liar but for this retired Senior NCO who is now a Lay Pastor at an Adventist church, this raises a lot of red flags. At this point, a meeting with the Commander, 1SG, PSG, immediate supervisor, the soldier's Adventist Pastor, and the soldier would seem to be appropriate to me. Maybe the soldier watched the movie about Desmond Doss and decided to test the waters. I would earnestly pray that is not the case.

Response by CW4 John Wheatley made Sep 22 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-09-22T22:37:10-04:00

Unapproved days off ? WTF

Response by SFC Mamerto Perez made Sep 23 at 2018 8:01 AM

2018-09-23T08:01:52-04:00

I had this happen at Ft. Benning. I told a brand new Private that he had KP and he told me told, that he was a Baptist. Since being Sunday and nobody was around, I told the Mess Sgt. and said take me to him. He told the young men, I hear your are Baptist, I am a Baptist too, if I work on Sundays. You are working too.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2018 1:21 AM

2018-09-24T01:21:41-04:00

I am all for supporting everyone religious rights and liberties. He should have planned ahead and submitted paperwork to take leave or be on a pass for that day. First thing I would do is some research to understand if it was a religious holiday or was he lying. If he is lying you know where to go from there.

If he is not lying (honest mistake), I would get in touch with legal to establish your left and rights limits. Can you make him come in because he failed to plan ahead or will that result in a EO complaint? The last thing I want is my CO and 1SG getting hit with a EO complaint. If legal say you can, I feel then you have to consider if you forces this Soldier to come in or don't, how is going to effect the morale and discipline of the unit?

Either way, I would ensure from this point on there is a set standard on what the command expects in this situation. Make a standard that the COC needs to be informed 30-60 days out. If their religious holidays, you can know well into a year prior when those day will be. If it is a value and priority to you, it's well worth the leg work to plan it out.

And as an example by MAJ Bell, leaders need to educated themselves about their Soldiers religions so they understand them better. Regardless, a last minute "I am not showing up" is unacceptable. I love the saying "Leaders are Readers!"

Your thoughts on the points above?

Response by COL Thom Brooks made Sep 26 at 2018 5:54 PM

2018-09-26T17:54:41-04:00

A5 600-20 Chapter 5-6 explicitly addresses this subject. Reasonable accommodation as long as it doesn't affect mission and provided it has been approved by Command. This last minute notification would likely not fly, but please review the AR for more definitive explanation.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Oct 1 at 2018 5:54 AM

2018-10-01T05:54:07-04:00

I had to read your question a couple of times to get past the "...simply called in today to let him know that he is simply taking the day off today or tomorrow..." part. Religion or no religion, I don't remember EVER getting a 'day off' for anything, unless it was Company approved. Even if I woke up sick, I had to be in formation the next morning, to let my Platoon Sergeant or Section Sergeant make the determination to let me go to Sick Call. Times have changed. Now the religion part...as a former Chaplain's Assistant, religious coverage was provided at the training site by the Chaplain, IF MISSION ALLOWED IT! We never interrupted any training or missions that soldiers were doing. Unless, the Company Commander/1SG has already approved it, his scheduled can be modified to allow him to observe that day. Again, to simply call in...NO WAY! As a civilian now, I don't simply call in for anything, I have a "work ethic."

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 8 at 2018 6:52 PM

2018-11-08T18:52:15-05:00

Well speaking for 35 years ago if he knows he needs the day off he should have asked for it appropriate Manner and appropriate time. As of right now I guess if you could spare him and not cause an inconvenience to the rest then go ahead if not he's stuck and awol if he leaves!

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Nov 12 at 2018 3:38 PM

2018-11-12T15:38:55-05:00

My response to him would be that I better damn well see him in the field. It's not the Boy Scouts; it's the Army.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Dec 2 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-12-02T11:30:54-05:00

For a practicing seventh day Adventist. It goes beyond going to church on Saturday the Sabbath begins at Sundown Friday night till sundown Saturday night. And during that time we are admonished to not just do our own pleasure but certain things need to be taken care of 7 days a week. Desmond Doss won his Medal if Honor on Sabbath. I pulled Sgt of the guard and CQ on Sabbath as I looked at that as essential duties for the welfare of others but I wouldn’t stand by for frivolous elective inspections or busy work. I have been out in the field on Sabbath but I have always had duty that guarded the health and welfare of others so I felt no twinge of conscience carrying them out. But I have no sympathy for the person who isn’t consistent in showing their beliefs in their daily walk as that inconsistency causes those who are sincere to have a much harder time. But remember if you have a soldier with consistent integrity , you have a good soldier that you can rely on when the chips are down.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2018 8:32 PM

2018-12-06T20:32:43-05:00

There is a process to go through if a Soldier wants special accommodations for religious reasons. Without that, the Commander has the right to refuse to allow the Soldier special consideration. Even with that, accommodations will be made IF mission isn't negatively impacted. The Commander and Chaplain need to have a discussion with the Soldier.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2018 9:17 PM

2018-12-09T21:17:28-05:00

slacker extra kp

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Dec 9 at 2018 10:18 PM

2018-12-09T22:18:18-05:00

This is where we get serious. First calling in the day of your reggilous "day off", is totally disrespectful, unprofessional and just plain childish. If you're not sick or 5 seconds away from dying, not sogned out on approved leave, then you're AWOL. Religous holidays, Christmas, Hannukah, Rammadan Kwanza or whatever, are scheduled holidays when units can cut back personnel for time off ( off the books leave or leave taken by personnel). If you want to celebrate day(s) off for unoffical holidays, sign out on leave that you scheduled.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2018 10:57 PM

2018-12-11T22:57:46-05:00

Serve for twenty seconds, and you'll have duty on your Sabbath. Serve long enough, and you'll have duty on a major holy day, several times over. That's life. We all deal with it, and we all show up when we're supposed to.

Response by CPT Larry Hudson made Dec 13 at 2018 8:06 PM

2018-12-13T20:06:54-05:00

Unit Command establishes what is or is not acceptable days off for religious purposes. Soldiers may be given a chance to identify religious days but the number must be controlled and not exceeded. Otherwise, the military has chaplains and the soldier can go get his chaplain card punched and be grateful for what he is given.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Dec 16 at 2018 11:05 PM

2018-12-16T23:05:33-05:00

You knew what you were getting into when you joined. If you want to be a privileged character, and consider yourself a special person, who has special needs everyone should bow down to--You should have joined the Salvation Army.

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2018 4:02 PM

2018-12-17T16:02:35-05:00

From a Navy Captain
The military is NOT Walmart or Amazon.
The job is to wage war which often means kill or be killed.
EVERYTHING takes a back seat to that mission.
There is NOTHING else on the table.
The military is a voluntary position.
If someone cannot accept this, they need to separate or be separated from the military.
CLEAR CUT/No ifs ands or buts
No room to be offended.
Do the job or get out.

Response by Sgt Jude Eschete made Dec 23 at 2018 11:56 PM

2018-12-23T23:56:45-05:00

If it is a working day and not an approved government holiday that the entire service is given liberty for, he should have to do like everyone else and put in a request for leave. If it were big enough it would be an observed day off. Otherwise, he is not special. Muslim service members still have to come to work all throughout Ramadan, I still had to go to work on my religion's holidays. He isn't special.

Leave Request or Unauthorized Absence (AWOL).

Response by Gerard FitzGerald made Jan 3 at 2019 4:58 AM

2019-01-03T04:58:44-05:00

Perhaps it is time that we change the rules , allow each person the option of picking five religious days a year to practice, decided in advance of any worship or non-worship (Atheist) that they want with the understanding they are responsible for any training that is given during that time, there would be an exclusion for ANY days off during rescue or combat operations, a day would be considered -sunset to sunset, sunset day before to sunset day off, while the Military will work to accommodate scheduling, there is no guarantee that every day would or will be approved

Response by SSgt Liam Babington made Jan 5 at 2019 12:05 PM

2019-01-05T12:05:12-05:00

Sorry NOT a justification! It should have been arranged prior! Counseling statement at the minimum...NJP at the most! While respect for faith is important, arrogance is not! We all signed on the dotted line, and that means we gave up certain rights in the interest for the greater good!

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 27 at 2019 8:24 PM

2019-01-27T20:24:12-05:00

Easy...UCMJ has an article that specifically deals with Unauthorized Absences. Simply state to the soldier that he is expected on duty, or will be counted AWOL. Have the face-to-face discussion on the rule set AFTER he returns to duty, and still hold him accountable for being late that day. Religious accommodation does not trump readiness, ever. Good Lord, if we allowed willy-nilly "call outs" on ships....

Response by SGT Mike Moschkin made Jan 31 at 2019 8:35 PM

2019-01-31T20:35:54-05:00

I didn't know that anyone ever got excused from exercise for religious reasons. Being in the military is not like being in civilian world our rights are few but we risk our lives to defend everyone's rights ! I am more open minded then most on here and I just don't see it. Discipline has to be maintained and we weren't made allowances period I accepted that this! This becomes more apparent in combat where there aren't any exceptions. The mind set starts when going out on exercises to honest I really like them but I went like everyone else did !

Response by PO2 Emile Dupuis made Feb 5 at 2019 8:24 PM

2019-02-05T20:24:51-05:00

as an old sailor, you never use religion as an excuse for time off, you are supposed to be on station be there. or time to get out maybe.

Response by TSgt Robert Hayes made Feb 15 at 2019 9:38 AM

2019-02-15T09:38:15-05:00

I had a similar situation in a unit that worked 24/7. The individual claimed she could not work on Sundays as she was Mormon. She was also pregnant and claimed she could not work more than 8 hour shifts and could not work the midnight shift. I explained that my folks were working 12 hour shifts seven days per week due to manning. Her arrival should mean that my folks could start getting a few days off (As the managing of this section was an additional duty, I was working 8 hour shifts and staying late and/or working on my days off to try and give my folks a break). She threatened to go to JAG.
I consulted with JAG, the Chaplain and her Doctor and found that if she was in fact authorized to work the hours claimed due to her religion and pregnancy then the Doctor and Chaplain would provide written waivers for her. They would not provide any such waivers so she worked as needed. I followed the Doctors guidance and limited the number of hours per week she worked as well as keeping her in 8 hour shifts but the Mormon Chaplain told me that there was no restriction to keep her from working on Sunday.
In your case JAG and the chaplain can give you the best guidance.