How to help a Soldier when the NCO support channel fails him or her?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 00:26:36 -0400

I know a soldier who's NCO support channel (I.e team leader, platoon sergeant and first sergeant) will not send him to the promotion board. When he first joined the unit they said they would. This soldier has not be counseled on why he has not been sent to the board. His old unit didn't send him either. I know this soldier very well. He has been deployed 3 times and knows how to soldier and take care of soldiers along with leading them into battle. Can anyone please assist me with finding better ways to go about it and to help this soldier progress in his career.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 1:24 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 01:24:26 -0400

Has he exhausted his options within the unit? I am sure the CO CDR has an open door policy that the Soldier can utilize and if that fails the CSM.

First I would have him ask his other NCOs why he is not being put forward before the board and ask for it in writing. We cannot improve and meet expectations if we do not know what they are, right?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 9:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 20 Jul 2014 21:56:39 -0400

Has the Soldier been counseled on the reason(s) why he is not going to the promotion board? If not he can go to CDR and tell him that he's not getting counseled properly. The Commander should request a copy of his counseling packet to see how effective his counseling are. If he did get counseled his Leaders should lay out everything that he needs to work on to be recommended for the board. His PSG should be checking up on the 4856's every month to ensure the Team leader or Squad leader are providing him with information on how to excel.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 2:30 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 14:30:26 -0400

SGT Atkinson, I have a couple questions: Is the Soldier in the primary or secondary zone? And has the Soldier been performing well enough to justify him going to the promotion board?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 7:53 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:53:15 -0400

@ sgt steven atkinson I'm going to suggest this only as a side note. Be aware that you're setting yourself up for retribution by this soldier's entire chain of command to include the CSM and unit C.O. Be aware of this, prepare for this. You are not just challenging his platoon leadership, but you're challenging the entire chain of command. You will be subjected to some sort of retribution - trust me. No matter what the chain of command states re: no retribution - you cannot challenge the chain of command without retribution. No CSM can control the people below them that well - someone will strike back in some sideways manner.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 7:53 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jul 2014 19:53:54 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member I'm going to suggest this only as a side note. Be aware that you're setting yourself up for retribution by this soldier's entire chain of command to include the CSM and unit C.O. Be aware of this, prepare for this. You are not just challenging his platoon leadership, but you're challenging the entire chain of command. You will be subjected to some sort of retribution - trust me. No matter what the chain of command states re: no retribution - you cannot challenge the chain of command without retribution. No CSM can control the people below them that well - someone will strike back in some sideways manner.

Response by SGT Alicia Brenneis made Aug 2 at 2014 10:43 AM

SGT Alicia Brenneis — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 10:43:43 -0400

I went through something like this twice. The first time I had to go to my SGM. He called my NCO in and asked for one good reason why I should not go to the board. Failing to explain why I was "not ready" to be an NCO with anything more than "i just know" , I went to the board . He ended up getting kicked out of my board for being disrespectful. Then I lost my "P" status on a technicality. I was deployed and 12 months without a PT test did me in. The second time was because my leadership kept changing and they ALL wanted the 90day evaluation period. It seemed just as one would say yes we would get a new one. I explained my situation to the 1SG. He pulled my counseling packet and I went to the board.

You just have to be persistent while being respectful. I advocate for using the chain of command as long as you don't go in being insulting and putting down the leader that is failing you. It will only make you look bad. I advise taking your counseling packet with you just in case they ask to see it. Be prepared for backlash if your leaders truly are wrong. We all know it is not allowed but no one likes to be told on. The soldier also needs to be squared away. If you go in with minimum PT scores, "you done good" counseling's, and very little evidence of the soldiers effort to advance themselves chances are you will not get the best result.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 6:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 06:51:59 -0400

My question to you is how do you know this Soldier? Are you socializing with him off duty? If you are in the Soldier's platoon or Company then I can see you standing up for him. There may be something that Soldier has not disclosed with you. I question any relationship an NCO may have with a Junior Enlisted Soldier outside of duty. NCO's are mentors, leaders, and trainers. They should never be considered a "friend." If you have a question in how the Soldier is being handled by his NCO Support Channel or CoC, then I suggest you bring the problem to the attention to those said parties. It seems there is more to this than the Soldier in question has told you. I would also suggest you stop making friends outside you rank structure off duty.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 8:04 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:04:46 -0400

This can lead to a slippery slope... I would recommend standing back for a second and look at the larger picture. Is there something they might have done or do that might make them "not ready" that you're not seeing because you know the Soldier? Have you asked others in their platoon why the Soldier hasn't been to the board? Is there a technical reason such as not in zone, not enough time in grade or service, maybe flagged? Apft? Soldier not telling the truth about the counsellings? Etc...

From what I've seen in the past, the best results came from talking to the CSM or IG. Because the CSM might not be seeing each and every counselling for non-recommendation and isn't aware that it's not being done. The IG should contact the CSM and inform them of the same. Both do the same, one just uses a 3rd party.

Be cautious when appealing to a CSM and prepare on being asked about the relationship with the Soldier and how you came upon the information, essentially you are saying the squad leader, platoon sergeant, first sergeant, and/or even the CSM for not doing their job....

Do keep this in mind, article 92 does protect individuals against repricusion and retaliation. Most division and below have been implementing this through policy letters.

Hope this helps, be cautious and good luck!

Response by 1LT A. Uribe made Apr 5 at 2016 8:36 AM

1LT A. Uribe — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 08:36:32 -0400

Too easy, go to battalion and ask to see the CSM.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 11:26 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 11:26:29 -0400

Not knowing the Soldier, it is hard to judge whether this is appropriate or not. However, he should seek clarification from his leadership. If he has verbally requested, been denied and given no justification. He could forward a memo to his platoon sergeant, and be sure to CC his squad leader to request counseling on why he will not go forward to the board. He should be sure to state that he wants to address any shortcomings that he may have in order to prepare himself as a leader. He will not get far with the attitude of "I have earned this," but will do better with one of wanting to learn and improve as a leader.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 8:09 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 08:09:55 -0400

There is an old saying: "If you can't move up, spread out!" Quit trying to "fix stupid!" The Chain of Command has an obligation to promote their soldier's based on TIG & TIS and NCOER's period! I have watched junior officers and NCO's coming into units and asking for 90 days performance, etc. They are treating soldiers like they are in 3M, GE or some corporate world somewhere. My advice is to truly consider taking as many college courses, correspondence courses and train for MOSC's that are hard to fill and make application "respectfully" for anything and everything (including OCS or WO) that will provide "upward mobility"....it's the" Law of Large Numbers" ...you will strike pay dirt and leave the old unit in the dirt! "Don't get mad, get even!" Take care of your own career path! Jack Welch the former CEO of General Electric said it the best: "Either control your own destiny, or someone else will!" "Drive on! Soldier!" Stay motivated and positive....it'll kill them with kindness! -TOP

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 8:59 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 20:59:07 -0400

Some responses here are going waaaaaaayyyyyyy too deep into personal opinions, perceptions, conjecture.....whatever.....Bottomline: If you really care for this Soldier..... have him/her pull and print his ERB....check time in service, time in grade...if they meet eligibility for promotion in primary zone.....counseling is mandatory. If he meets TIS/TIG and has a 180 APFT with 0% BF to spare (as watered down as that may be).........counseling is required. The 90 day wait...is BS.... not permitted. If all I said above is legit (ie: not flagged)....send him 1. Open door to CSM with ERB in hand or 2. same but IG. Standing one's ground for legitimate principle issues falls under courage in Army Values....however....if it could start a fire-storm..... speak to CSM or IG about "fear of possible reprisal"..... I can tell you THIS CSM would be impressed if a young SPC did all his homework in the areas mentioned and CoC/NCO Channel didn't do theirs.....Soldier would be boarded and I'd move him inside my BN