How to deal with ROTC after being active duty Soldier?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:10:26 -0400

After serving active duty for 2.5 years, I was accepted to Green to Gold and became effectively an ROTC Cadet. I had heard all of the horror stories about ROTC and how life would be different, but I assumed that being active duty I would easily adapt and perhaps be given some respect due to me being a GtG candidate. Upon first arriving to the unit I was stripped off my rank in front of formation by another cadet and told "to know better than to wear that here" and generally given very poor impression of ROTC. Now I am a month in and I absolutely hate it, seeing toxic Cadets being given praise and junior cadets following in lock step, too afraid to make their opinions heard. I wanted so badly to enhance my army career by becoming an officer, now I question how I could ever be a part of an organization so broken.
Do any prior enlisted have any words of wisdom? To officers that commissioned ROTC is there anything I could be doing differently? Thank you in advance.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Oct 24 at 2015 6:14 PM

LTC Kevin B. — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:14:21 -0400

I've been in your shoes. Hang in there, get into a leadership role, and change the leadership environment. The alternative is backing out and choosing another path in life, which leaves the problem for others to fix. Just remember, you're dealing with college kids who are not yet the veteran that you are.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 6:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:27:53 -0400

Can't speak as someone who has done it or know people who have. But, id imagine just take it one day at a time brother and keep grinding. Get what you need to get done, get in those leadership positions and fix the issue. You have the experience, just apply it. Good luck man!

Response by LTC Damon LaCour made Oct 24 at 2015 6:28 PM

LTC Damon LaCour — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:28:46 -0400

I agree w/LTC B., but also find an actual commissioned officer to mentor you. If you have the opportunity, join participate in the SMP. Your prior enlisted experience should be valued in the ROTC program, but it definitely will be if the unit you SMP into is anything like mine. Good luck!

Response by MAJ Monique Salinas made Oct 24 at 2015 6:37 PM

MAJ Monique Salinas — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:37:21 -0400

I remember thinking the same thing. I thought,"I can't believe you will be my peer." But you know what?! I'm still in and they aren't. They didn't survive when it came to the reality of what they are training to do. You'll see or hear about how their first assignment and leaders will put them in their place. They'll get a rude awakening.

The trick is to stay true to yourself and accomplish what motivated you to be an officer. I wanted to become one to make positive changes in my organization. The only way to do that and most effective was to be at the top. Nothing will change unless you make that stand to say that you won't be part of the problem but an ambassador for what leader should look like. Soldiers that you will lead will appreciate that and will follow you. To me, that's the best reward (to know that you have gained their trust and confidence to be led by you).

Mentor the junior cadets that come after you to change that toxic culture.

Good luck!

Response by PVT Robert Gresham made Oct 24 at 2015 6:42 PM

PVT Robert Gresham — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:42:49 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Although you should never be treated with such disrespect as an Officer, it may be a good learning experience to occasionally have to swallow your pride, and realize that you are not always the top of the food chain. The best commissioned Officers realize that they sometimes have to give way to the thoughts, and experience, of NCOs (sometimes even junior NCOs). Just remember basic training, and the prior service guys who were always complaining because they had to go through it again. You chose to start at the bottom again. You thought you would be respected because of your prior service, and it didn't happen. Now is the time to man up and just live with it for the time being. YOUR time is coming. You can do this, and if you wish, you can make changes when your time comes. Hold on Brother, that bar is going to look mighty fine on your uniform. Best of Luck !!

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 6:55 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 18:55:40 -0400

You identified the problem, and it sucks to hear that is going on at your campus. However, be the better person and don't let toxic Cadets influence your choice of becoming an Officer. Having identified the problem, come up with some solutions. I'd suggest looking into ADRP 1-0 - The Army Peofession.
Unfortunately Cadets can be overbearing like the ones your are experiencing. Push on through and use them as the example of how not to be a Professional.
Also, bring this issue up to your PMS, but be ready to provide a solution. Some Cadets might not be as desilpined and fully immersed in the Army culture as you are. They will soon learn their lesson, and if not they will be horrible leaders.
Good luck, keep your head up, and be a good leader. You are on the right path asking for advise, sgins of a professional.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 7:00 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:00:55 -0400

I was not ROTC. I was OTS.

What I would say is the officer training reflects the real active duty about as much as Basic training reflects the real active duty. So, be patient and play the game.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 8:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:06:04 -0400

I think you should remember that you joined a leadership program and sometimes your "peers" will be in need of some leadership themselves.

You should not have worn your rank. It isn't your rank in a pre-commissioning program, although publicly being striped of it was uncalled for. Cadet is your rank.

Your active experience is important, but at 2.5 years active, be humble enough to know you still have much to learn. ROTC is an opportunity to learn a great deal and what you do there will likely determine your branch, but it is also very much a game. So play it.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 8:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:41:04 -0400

Oh, I do have some advice and guidance, but it is not the proper military bearing type of advice and guidance.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 8:44 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:44:29 -0400

Sounds like you're in a terrible ROTC unit. Not much you can do but gut it out and try to change what you can when you get the chance. Good luck.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Oct 24 at 2015 8:50 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:50:48 -0400

Treat it like any school. Do what they say and don't worry about shit you have no control over.

Response by 1LT Ryan Millican made Oct 24 at 2015 9:30 PM

1LT Ryan Millican — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:30:43 -0400

Fortunitaly for my program, the majority of us were prior service and all but 2 of us had already reached E5 before we joined ROTC. We had another university as part of our Battalion that was all new cadets (never been in before) and of course they thought they knew everything because they had read it and studied it in a book or whatever. Just play the game, go on, and try to learn from others mistakes and remind yourself that's not the leader you want to be. Cadets can be some the worst leaders, because they are trying too hard to prove themselves. Wear the cadet rank, and try to prove yourself.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 24 at 2015 10:09 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:09:41 -0400

I applaud your decision to become an officer. It may be a bit of a rocky transition but if you truly want it try to stick it out. We had 2 prior enlisted cadets in my class and every other sentence was "this is some f--ed up (some kind of farm animal, generally, horse chicken or bull) sh!t!" Don't let that attitude get the worst of you. First off, the cadet that defrocked you should be booted along with the PMS who allowed that to happen. ROTC is not boot camp and senior cadets have never been allowed to act like that. If you are a cadet you do wear cadet rank and not your prior enlisted rank. I'm sure you understand that and what happened is inexcusable. That being said your prior experience is your ace in the hole if you use it right. I had no prior enlisted time and neither did most of my fellow cadets. Not that we were clueless, but we hadn't been in the real world yet. As LTC Kevin B. points out, use your experience to get into a leadership position where you can teach and train. Never belittle or act as a DI to your charges but let the squad or section leader in you come out to help your fellow cadets along, to include your seniors. It's a learning environment - treat it just like getting that new "butter bar" on board. Yes you're going to laugh behind their back at all the silly stuff but inevitably you being the better soldier will help them to learn. As you move towards your commissioning, you'll be moving out of the supervisor role and into management. Use what you know as prior enlisted to guide your decision making while you let your NCOs do their job.
You can do it!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 10:14 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:14:00 -0400

I started ROTC as a 29 year old Sergeant; I feel your pain.

There are similar threads on here, but the one take away I will pass to you is keep focused on your prize. A little pain now will pale in comparison to what you are working towards.

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Oct 25 at 2015 9:09 AM

MAJ Ron Peery — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:09:43 -0400

Like the politicians in "The Outlaw Josey Wales" I say......Endeavor to persevere. There is a lot of good advice in the posts responding to your question. I especially like the recommendations that you find an SMP unit. I was SMP in a reserve unit in OKC and learned a lot from my time there. My school (University of Central Oklahoma) had a great ROTC program, and outstanding cadets, for the most part. We had a lot of prior service, many of whom had combat experience in Vietnam. We looked up to them, but only if they made themselves part of the team. You should guard against thinking your prior service time will, or even should, give you automatic respect. That just doesn't happen in the real world. Everywhere you go in life, you have to prove yourself. Realize that the cadets are all going to be testing you, and sometimes that will be in the form of childish nonsense, because they aren't that far from the apron strings. Be the go to guy when things need to be done. Demonstrate your skills. Be an example to the other cadets. Mentor the ones who ask for help or advice, but never try to force it on them. And try to enjoy your college years. Good luck, Cadet.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Oct 25 at 2015 9:29 AM

COL Jon Thompson — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:29:31 -0400

I have learned as much about leadership from the bad leaders with whom I worked as I have with the good and great ones. So I would say take what you see and make the organization better. This is all about leadership development and I wish I could say that everyone coming through ROTC becomes a good leader. But I also know that is not the case. Don't become the toxic leader yourself and work hard to get into positions where you can affect the change. It may not be this year but down the road as an MSIII or MSIV cadet. ROTC will be over after graduation and you will have the opportunity to enhance your career as a platoon leader leading Soldiers. Then none of this will matter unless you become that toxic leader yourself. I will say one more thing. You learned a lesson the hard way that in the Army, the respect you get is not about what you did in the past but what you are doing now. You are coming in with different experience and knowledge than a ROTC cadet right out of high school but you cannot rest on that. Use it to your advantage and become the best leader you can be.

Response by CPT Griff Tatum made Oct 25 at 2015 9:34 AM

CPT Griff Tatum — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:34:44 -0400

After my basic in 2010 I went to North Georgia College, currently #1 in the nation for scores at LDAC (the program you'll go to to be assessed to be an officer). I spent almost 5 years at this school with only around 100/900 cadets being prior service. What I can tell you is that you have to remain calm, take off your cool guy active duty shades and do your job as both a student and a leader. We would have prior service and active duty guys come in like they know it all, me too at times, and you simply don't. If you knew what it took to be an officer, why attend a leadership institution? So in short, it's hard to humble yourself, especially when you have actual army credit and some cadets do not, but in the end, that's going to make you one heck of an officer and no one can touch your bars then because you and only you earned them. Think about the end goal, and backtrack. Take all the bad qualities and leave them and take the good qualities with you. You're always going to have people dragging you down in life, so why quit when it is something that will benefit you in the end? I had days where I couldn't stand listening to people who had no idea what they were talking about. It ate me alive, but I remained humble, I stepped up as a leader when it was my turn, and I persevered the dumb stuff that ultimately turned out to make me a better officer. Now, I don't know where you're going to school, mine had a great amount of tact and military bearing because of who and what it was, but just stick it out and before you know it you'll be leading others and making a bigger difference than you think. Good luck.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 9:50 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:50:30 -0400

Congrats and you'll be fine!

Response by SFC James Needles made Oct 25 at 2015 1:51 PM

SFC James Needles — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 13:51:38 -0400

Cadet Jason Mott
The cadet who striped you of your rank should have taken you aside and advised you to not wear your active duty rank and then ensured you got the proper rank and helped you pin it on properly. That aside, you need to remember this incident and use it as an example of how not to act or treat people and other cadets. There is a ton of good advice already posted here, listen to it, use it effectively, with out any animosity towards the individual who demeaned you in front of the other cadets. Doing this will reveal your true character to your fellow cadets and they will respect you for it.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 25 at 2015 4:07 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 16:07:08 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member you fight through that ignorant stupid crap, brother. You are way above their ignorant college mentality. You are dealing with college students 2 years ahead of you and because they are MS-4's and in their last year they think they are hot stuff and are sliding towards the finish line. Be grateful you aren't at one of the service academies! If you are guard/reserves like I was, you didn't even get the stipend or the clothing allowance. If you aren't, then yes the rank needed to come off. But lessons in tact are often learned the hard way. Wait till they show up to their unit with that kind of attitude. You let that crap go, soldier. Do your own program and consider yourself blessed. Think about all those soldiers who applied and were denied. I suffered thru that same crap at the University of Oregon. Eugene, Oregon! You want to talk about wanting to go postal on some hippies! I was an E-5 grunt with 6 years and being punked out by 21 year old students who were trying to learn how to conduct an op order. Laughable. I suffered thru it and you can to. Just don't be old like me and have your age waiver denied.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 25 at 2015 5:08 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 17:08:09 -0400

Remember this, a bad example becomes a good example of not to behave. Keep your chin up and focus on your career.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 6:23 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 18:23:37 -0400

Be yourself. Be teachable, and most importantly, "cooperate & graduate."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 8:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 20:46:15 -0400

While you should wear a cadet uniform rather than a specialist uniform, that was very rude an inappropriate in my book. That is poor leadership. When I went to ROTC camp where they rotate leaders; I saw some that did a lot of yelling. The ones that were cool, easygoing but confident and decisive got the best ratings. You probably have a few cadet leaders with big egos! They will learn the hard way when they get to the real Army! If they don't learn to respect the enlisted soldiers in their charge, they won't last long. They need to learn how to be a leader not a boss! I would seek out an experienced cadet (perhaps another veteran) who you have a rapport with to be a mentor. I would also talk to your cadre adviser, but don't come across as a complainer; approach him/her with suggestions on how to improve your teamwork and leadership; maybe he'll bring up some of the issues you are concerned with. Bottom line, conduct yourself from strength. Do you leading and following by setting the right example; and promoting teamwork; eventually the cadre and more mature cadet leaders will see who has the true strength! Army Strong!

If for some reason it turns out to be one of those situations where you have a poorly run unit, ie the cadre not mentoring or monitoring the cadet leadership effectively; consider transferring to another ROTC unit even if it means transferring universities. However, if you follow above, the chances are very good you will prevail. Good luck and thank you for your service!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2015 3:55 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 03:55:43 -0400

Take the good with the bad. You will have good cadet leadership and bad, just like in the Army. I too was a prior service cadet with a combat deployment. However, I didn't go in with a big head or an ego. I played by their rules, offered any guidance or war stories if asked, and in the end I made some really good friends. I had a pre-conceived notion of ROTC before I joined. It changed after a few months in the program. Don't let one person or incident ruin your experience. And you can still learn much that you didn't know before. There is a difference from going enlisted to officer. Keep an open mind.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 26 at 2015 8:36 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 08:36:25 -0400

I taught ROTC for 3 long years.....The Cadets and fellow cadre made it great, being there and not in a unit deploying made it hard.
The cadre set the tone, if they are fostering or allowing such behavior to go unchecked, then it is a leadership problem.
All that said, welcome to the real army life, where leaders come and go, units change..and what you get for leadership, peers, subordinates is an ever change box of sees candies. Sometimes you get the cream of the bunch, sometimes a nut. How YOU deal with it is what counts. You make the difference, You treat others with respect and professionalism, let them come up to YOUR standards.
Right now a non prior service cadet things end of semester finales is the test. You know the test starts the day they get to thier first unit as a newly minted LT and start learning how to be a leader. Be secure in that knowledge and just be you.

Response by CPT Brian Bergson made Oct 26 at 2015 9:27 AM

CPT Brian Bergson — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 09:27:16 -0400

I went green to gold, and made it through by laughing at the cadets with no prior service. You will be a better officer because you were enlisted first, and especially because you're a member of the SP4 mafia! Hang in there the US Army needs you.

Response by Cadet CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2015 6:26 PM

Cadet CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Oct 2015 18:26:43 -0400

Two things one are you about of the Guard or Reserve? and you could always talk to the PMS about how the program is running if you feel to much hazing is going on . Remember some cadets can be "Green" never was enlisted but went right away to ROTC

Response by LTC Michael Brantley made Oct 30 at 2015 10:04 AM

LTC Michael Brantley — Fri, 30 Oct 2015 10:04:05 -0400

There are a lot of schools out there that do not know what right looks like. Some of the previous comments are spot on. You have good experience to share. Wait until there is someone ready for it before you share it. Those that think bullying is leadership won't be around very long.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2015 10:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Dec 2015 22:12:47 -0500

You can't quit, SPC Mott. Because then that toxic example of a Cadet that you gave is allowed to continue unchecked throughout the rest of ROTC and into the Total Force. Obviously you can't demand that a Cadet doesn't commission because s/he's toxic unless they do something that warrants dismissal from the program, but what you can do is, like others have said, dedicate yourself to the program and showing junior Cadets what right looks like, or at least what the real Army looks like. Get them out of that toxic lock step. I'm just a regular high school graduate, into college/ROTC, then into the Officer Corps, but one of my closest friends was a GtG and that's how he told me he got through it. Trying to show the rest of us new guys what right looked like and what to expect in the real Army and, at times, just grinning and bearing it. The gold bars are worth it. The mantle of Lieutenant and leader are worth it. Your future Soldiers are worth it.