How strict should SGLs be at the NCO Academy?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:36:04 -0400

Should the academy be relaxed due to it being all NCOs

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Jul 21 at 2014 8:41 AM

1SG Mike Case — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:41:03 -0400

Relaxed in what sense? Should we be able to "smoke and joke" in the class room or are you saying we shouldn't go to parade rest and call each other by our first names and relax the grading standards on the APFT?

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jul 21 at 2014 8:45 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:45:17 -0400

The key is to maintain professionalism at all times. If this can be accomplished without being overly strict that's great. If the professionalism begins to slip, then things need to be tightened up. No two classes will ever be the same.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Jul 21 at 2014 8:56 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:56:00 -0400

When I attended PLDC in '90, it was very strict in every sense of the word; we moved in one direction in the hallways, went to parade rest when being passed by or when passing SGLs or other cadre, and had little free time that wasn't covered by the training schedule. BNCOC was a little less severe, as at this point everyone WAS an NCO and by the time I attended ANCOC, well it was simply be at the right place, at the right time, in the right uniform, and sober lol! The level of strictness should, IMO, soften as you progress in the various levels of the NCOES as you have progressed in rank, experience and maturity. Nothing wrong with being strict so long as professionalism is being maintained. While serving as an SGL at PLDC later in my career, I was strict but fair, as was expected by the NCOA AND by the students that I mentored and taught.

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made Jul 21 at 2014 8:59 AM

SSG Robin Rushlo — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 08:59:12 -0400

NO NEVER NEVER to the max. During my AD time the strict the training and standards made the best of the best rise to the top.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 21 at 2014 9:25 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:25:38 -0400

Simply put....NO. If anything the standards need to be harder. WLC , ALC, etc are where you start to cut your teeth in those ranks. Especially at WLC, the standards need to be higher because as a young Sergeant you need to not only understand the standard but appreciate them. The fastest way to gain appreciation for them is to be held to them.

Response by SFC Benjamin Parsons made Jul 21 at 2014 1:39 PM

SFC Benjamin Parsons — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 13:39:35 -0400

Kind of, a little bit off topic.............
As an inaugural SGL(SGI) at Armor ANCOC (where the SGL process was conceived and begun - 1988) our unspoken mission from inception was to take the bottom 10% out.
Hate to air that, but I assure you it's absolute truth. We wrote the entire curriculum toward, among lots and lots of other things, that end. We shared that when the Infantry folks from Ft. Benning came up to study what we were doing.
Whole tons of pressure was put on 'students' to meet the performance standards. Most all rose to the task - and the top 30% - 40% were outstanding. I learned from them that attitude beats smart every time.
As SSG/SFC, Army & Marines, they brought enough professionalism with them to meet any expectation. There were of course, exceptions. They simply adapted, or went home early.
An aside: As SGLs we realized as a group, subjectivity, hard as we tried as individuals, couldn’t be eliminated from our process. Collectively, we made dramatic behind the scenes efforts to recognize situations and eliminate any impact on our students.
I know both the Army and the NCOES process have changed some since. The Cold War ended during my time at Ft. Knox. Traumatic to say the least.
As a former Marine my-own-self, I was granted a pass by my leadership on PLDC. Did attend BNCOC in Germany – enjoyed it. Had some important value in tactical operations JrNCOs needed to know. Old ANCOC was everything we needed to fix by going to the Small Group system. A 90 day vacation. More or less.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 21 at 2014 3:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 15:04:01 -0400

Your same question gets asked when NCO's go to ALC, SLC, can't tell about the SGM's Academy, the issue IMO is that if you make the school too relaxed, then standards and professionalism start to drop