How should someone handle a disrespectful PFC (as a SPC)?

2017-08-07T18:58:09-04:00

When I was in my first company, I had problems with a PFC in a different squad who thought it was perfectly fine to openly disrespect me even though I outranked him. I couldn't correct him, as his squad leader wasn't very fond of me and gladly let it happen. Now I've switched companies, but the same PFC continues to approach me with disrespect and threatens to get his leadership if I defend myself

Response by SPC Seany Weaver made Aug 7 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-08-07T19:42:03-04:00

Hell put it on the table. If it gets that far his leadership will go down with him. U.C.M.J. .

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Aug 7 at 2017 7:48 PM

2017-08-07T19:48:12-04:00

So let him get his leadership. You have a Junior Troop being openly disrespectful to a senior rank. If his leadership sticks behind that kind of behavior, then you've already identified an even bigger problem. Toxic leadership breeds future toxic leaders.

He is approaching you to start trouble, so sure, get his leadership involved. He needs to be put back in place.

Response by Cpl Thomas Kifer made Aug 8 at 2017 12:00 AM

2017-08-08T00:00:02-04:00

Write that soldier up. And do it every time he does it. And if his squad leader attempts to sway your division in anyway then write him up as well. It is unbecoming of an NCO or Staff NCO to allow those under his command to be insubordinate to anyone of higher rank. But first your direct Chaim of Command to see if that resolves the issue. But no one can stop you from writing a subordinate up.

Response by CPL Michael Doubleman made Aug 8 at 2017 2:26 AM

2017-08-08T02:26:22-04:00

Cpl Kifer hit the nail on the head. Just because the rank of E4 SPC is held does not prevent you from writing up lower enlisteds. But run the chain of command first.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 7:44 AM

2017-08-08T07:44:45-04:00

If you figure it out let me know. I have the same issue and even going up the chain I'm limited to what I can do.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 7:51 AM

2017-08-08T07:51:48-04:00

As a last resort, you may want to use your commander's or 1SG's open door policy, if they have one, of course letting your own leadership know. I would not necessarily suggest mentioning the specifics, but a blanket conversation about respect, and the lack of it in your unit. This is something that may surface within a command climate survey, and should be addressed if it is a problem.

Response by SSG Brian Wilber made Aug 8 at 2017 12:57 PM

2017-08-08T12:57:08-04:00

If their leadership is allowing this to happen then take YOUR leadership to them and their leadership. If it continues after that little pow wow, take it up the chain until you get it resolved. The worst thing you can do is nothing. This will fester until it takes over an entire unit. As the Bible says, "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump."

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 1:19 PM

2017-08-08T13:19:10-04:00

If it was a Marine I would first make on the spot corrections. If he proceeded to be belligerent and disrespectful I would give him two options. Either correct himself or we will do paperwork (I try to not do paperwork so that their career is not hindered). From then on it is easy. If he is not on one of yours then you will have to talk to his leadership to get paperwork started. Negative counseling's and whatnot. Usually a good ass chewing will correct a deficiency.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Aug 8 at 2017 1:27 PM

2017-08-08T13:27:26-04:00

Are you in a position of leadership? If the answer is no, chill out. Junior enlisted rank means practically nothing. For all I know, you came in as a SPC and are new to the unit, while that PFC could have a deployment. If you're a teamleader or you have a tasking and he plays that game then hem him up.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Aug 8 at 2017 5:24 PM

2017-08-08T17:24:52-04:00

had a E2 do that to me, Top gave me 5 privates to do some menial 'make work' detail. I was a Spec4. He told me in no uncertain terms I wasnt a NCO and to take a flying leap. third time I told him to get to work he got more belligerent. Lo and behold Top came around the corner and heard him. He formally released us to our place of business. from what I heard he did that 'make work' detail 5 or 6 times under Tops supervision. we didnt do that parade rest stuff some type about, but that never happened again. had to write a statement on his e1 behalf. few weeks later he tried to burn the barracks down so he was gone anyway.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 8 at 2017 6:53 PM

2017-08-08T18:53:43-04:00

Document, document and document. Use your chain of command. That's what it is for. Then figure out why you were singled out for this type of behavior.

Response by Cpl John Barker made Aug 8 at 2017 8:47 PM

2017-08-08T20:47:04-04:00

Pic related

Response by SPC Rory J. Mattheisen made Aug 8 at 2017 8:47 PM

2017-08-08T20:47:17-04:00

Drag his ass into the woodline and counsel the shît out of him.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Aug 8 at 2017 8:57 PM

2017-08-08T20:57:38-04:00

I hear what everyone is saying...this is a tough situation, even in the civilian world. The biggest thing YOU must do, WRITE it all down; date, time, situation, soldiers involved, use your cell phone to take pictures if you have to, etc, because it will be YOUR word against HIS! Sure, let him call in his leadership and you can show them your proof of what kind of dirt-bag he is. He was probably a bully as a kid, and still one as an adult.

Response by Cpl Kennard S. (Sean) Dixon made Aug 8 at 2017 9:14 PM

2017-08-08T21:14:37-04:00

Back in the day (late 1980s), there was "wall to wall discipline and treeline counseling".

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 9:29 PM

2017-08-08T21:29:50-04:00

You have 3 options:

1. Violence but if caught you may end up a PFC.

2. Earn his respect or figure out why he feels the need to disrespect you.

3. Ignore it.

Once or if you get out in a leadership role you'll have many cases where you deal with situations like this. It's always going to be best for both sides to attempt to solve it before you go down the paperwork trail.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2017 9:49 PM

2017-08-08T21:49:55-04:00

Please allow me to lend you my copy of FM 22-102

http://www.ncoer.com/wall.htm

WALL-TO-WALL COUNSELING FM 22-102

You will find many helpful ideas about how to prepare and write NCOERs. We have gathered the links and put them on one webpage.

Response by SGT Edward Rivas made Aug 9 at 2017 12:20 AM

2017-08-09T00:20:26-04:00

Personally you need to set him straight, Break foot off in his ass. His leadership is what's perpetrated this, now that you're no longer in the company talk to your leadership and let them you have a plan I'm not sure if you intend on staying in and becoming an NCO but if you plan on it handing this at your level will help separate you from your peers. Tell the kid to get fucked and pound sand, basically let him make the first move you have an inherent right to defend yourself but if you can handle it without resorting to violence great, if not then oh well stand tall before the man and accept the consequences, you'll also gain more respect afterwards. And if you're an infantryman just tell your leadership you want to take him to the pit with your NCO supervising it you got 30sec to get the issue out and dealt with. Not the most orthodox way of dealing with it by probably the most effective. Over all keep your chin up and make sure you do the right thing for you, understand there is the right thing for the situation and there is the right thing for you that will allow you to walk away with a level head.

Response by Tim Start made Aug 9 at 2017 12:30 AM

2017-08-09T00:30:05-04:00

Back a long time ago, I was a pfc. We were on rail head detail for NTC. For some reason we were down for hours. Nothing happening. A dozen of us were laying out on the ramp. A spc woke me up 3 times because I was snoring and he was having a conversation. After the third time I told to wake everyone up or leave me alone. My question is, did you do something patently stupid? Because respect ia earned. A spc is a higher rank than a PFC but it's still like an older brother amongst siblings.

Response by SGT Jason Keefer made Aug 9 at 2017 7:15 AM

2017-08-09T07:15:39-04:00

When you were in the same company, you should have wrote counseling statements on said soldier, until you have enough to write an article 15 on said soldier.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2017 10:39 AM

2017-08-09T10:39:55-04:00

It may seem silly but...journal all the instances of disrespect that occur, include dates and times and locations. Be detailed (i.e. in uniform or out, who else was there etc.) once you get a few entries start making corrections or giving orders and journal those and his reaction. If his leadership then gets involved get yours involved and produce the journal with the entries. Be sure that this is all the journal is used for because if things start getting official (NJP-Art. 15) it could become evidence.

Response by SGT Eric Hawkins made Aug 9 at 2017 11:23 AM

2017-08-09T11:23:14-04:00

Being a Specialist in a TL slot is always a pain. As was said earlier, get your CoC involved and explain the situation. A lateral "promotion" to CPL could be an option to give you the title of Non-commissioned Officer. Just know that you are not in a unique position. The Privates are gonna give you Hell because you're juinior enlisted in an NCO slot. The NCO's will give you Hell for the same reason. As a CPL, you will technically be an NCO. But, with that rank, you are in a position that we used to call "Oscar Tango Foxtrot (out there flappin')." Find a quality NCO that will offer you support and mentorship as you drive on.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Aug 9 at 2017 8:31 PM

2017-08-09T20:31:36-04:00

SPC Banks, take this with a grain of salt and understand this comes from someone that had some similar issues and saw many like it. The best thing you can do is to ignore this walking nutsack. The issue is that you are both close in rank and he may become a SPC soon. By the time you get anything rolling you will lose steam. Additionally the NCO's in your unit will not think highly of a Junior enlisted getting all worked up over something that will pale with what you will have to deal with soon. Leadership looks troops who can deal with issues without making them worse for leadership positions, problem solving skills are a must. The very best thing you can do is show true leadership by doing everything possible to get your stripes, schooling, leadership positions etc. Then sit back and watch nutsack fall behind, or better yet run his mouth around some NCO's that will eat him for breakfast. This type of behavior doesn't just happen in junior ranks it happens up the NCO ladder and even with officers. A wise old MSG from TN once said to a young SP/$ back in the day "Choose your battles wisely, because not all battles are wise to choose" He then spit a large glob of spit and chew and said get moving peckahead as he laughed and walked off.

Response by SPC Anthony Kueneman made Aug 9 at 2017 10:27 PM

2017-08-09T22:27:28-04:00

Lol.. Your a SPC... If you aren't his team leader, tell him to fuck off and grow some thicker skin. I am guessing you aren't in combat arms, because that shit wouldn't have ever been allowed in an infantry plt.

Response by SPC Anthony Kueneman made Aug 9 at 2017 10:29 PM

2017-08-09T22:29:57-04:00

NVM... I see you are 11B... I guess 10th Mnt. has just gone downhill since I was in it.

Response by SPC William Bryan made Aug 11 at 2017 1:38 AM

2017-08-11T01:38:57-04:00

This man has a issue with you. It is probly on a personal level. You would have had to done somthing that offended him and he does not see your rank. Come on man, a Specialist does not need privates to like them, we have our own thing going. Find out some of his chain of command, and get a favor. Or simply write him up. It needs to be somthing that needs to pertain to a military disrespect and not a personal issue. You can also go through Battalion. Be careful not to whine, and watch out becoming a snitch and having somone else handle it.

Response by SPC Darold Sage made Aug 12 at 2017 12:05 PM

2017-08-12T12:05:29-04:00

You do have a right to write and file a complaint against the pfc for his disrespect

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 12 at 2017 1:24 PM

2017-08-12T13:24:54-04:00

I have one right now

Response by SPC William Thomasson made Aug 15 at 2017 10:20 PM

2017-08-15T22:20:31-04:00

I would write him up as a superior you have the ability to put paperwork on any subordinate that been out of line

Response by SPC William Thomasson made Aug 15 at 2017 10:22 PM

2017-08-15T22:22:59-04:00

Uniform code of military Justice allows that for all ranking members of the military be careful in your wording and be sure to get what evidence you need

Response by PFC Eric Parrish made Aug 15 at 2017 10:41 PM

2017-08-15T22:41:55-04:00

I don't know why your PFC's haven't already checked this idiot. No dill rod is going to disrespect one of my NCO's without my foot in his ass. So far your subordinates have failed you.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 16 at 2017 2:18 AM

2017-08-16T02:18:25-04:00

My response is not the greatest as I only had this issue once and that soldier is now one of my best friends. I got tired of it and was like look man if you got an issue with me you can tell me an nco or we can handle this after work. ( this is not an acceptable way of handling things in the military ) He choose option three and needless to say he's a good friend now not because of the way it was handled I think but because afterwards he said his part on what his issue was. I guess morale of the story is have you asked this PFC if he has some sort of problem with you or just being obnoxious in general?

Response by SPC Angel Lopez made Aug 16 at 2017 12:27 PM

2017-08-16T12:27:38-04:00

Up, down run in place ... some of these soldiers are fixable with out leaving a trail of paperwork

Response by SPC Angel Lopez made Aug 16 at 2017 12:28 PM

2017-08-16T12:28:46-04:00

Oh well damn, go thru your chain of command, theirs no need for that

Response by LCpl Russell Wallace made Aug 16 at 2017 12:44 PM

2017-08-16T12:44:25-04:00

Either you're a super shitty SPC who should be busted down anyway, or you're too much of a pussy to beat the piss outta this boot. Either way it falls on you.

Response by SPC Daniel Crouch made Aug 17 at 2017 10:53 PM

2017-08-17T22:53:39-04:00

He is still a Private.....Teach him

Response by SPC Ted Heath made Aug 18 at 2017 3:16 PM

2017-08-18T15:16:15-04:00

In the 80's I was a SPC squad leader. I even had a SGT assigned as assistant squad leader (he was new to MOS, and very inexperienced) I never had this problem with my squad. I respected them, and they me, although one outranked me, and several were the same rank. I guess my point is, it's how you handle yourself, and treat others. I was in charge. I was proud I earned the position, but even more proud of how I handled all my squad member's problems and shortcomings. Side note: they didn't have Cpls in engineer units.. until one fine day an inspecting General told my CO to make me a Corporal, or have me step down as a squad leader. proud to say I was the only Corporal in the battalion for a while.

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Aug 22 at 2017 1:27 PM

2017-08-22T13:27:26-04:00

Well as a SPC I would bring it up to your team leader or if you're a team leader, your squad leader, and try to keep it at the lowest level possible. Address the issue at that level and let the private know his place.

Response by SPC David Wright made Aug 24 at 2017 12:56 PM

2017-08-24T12:56:46-04:00

We would just take him out back and if he slips and falls a few times then oh well. Probably not the right answer but it worked very well

Response by SGT William Brown made Sep 3 at 2017 10:26 PM

2017-09-03T22:26:03-04:00

Put him in his/her place and let them know the UCMJ works both ways

Response by SPC Allen Fleming made Sep 19 at 2017 6:20 PM

2017-09-19T18:20:25-04:00

I don't care if you don't like the person but rank is rank! That disrespect PFC. can be brought up in charges!! It doesn't matter if his squad leader didn't like you!!! Rank is Rank!!! If he keeps it up, then go up your change of command! Itv

Response by SPC Chris Ashman made Sep 23 at 2017 7:52 AM

2017-09-23T07:52:52-04:00

Punch him in the face. Well that was an Old Army response sorry.

Response by SGT Kyle Bickley made Oct 13 at 2017 8:12 PM

2017-10-13T20:12:16-04:00

Invite the little bastard to the gym, put the gloves on, and mop the floor with his ass!

Response by SPC West Coleman made Oct 18 at 2017 11:30 PM

2017-10-18T23:30:41-04:00

Finesse or force, either sit down and have a couple of beers together or meet up and have it out. The bs has to stop.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Oct 19 at 2017 2:38 AM

2017-10-19T02:38:10-04:00

Firmly with soft gloves SPC Banks. Remember, you were a PFC before being promoted. Show him the way to salvation, remind him of the consequences of his actions, guide him back on track, but never lose your cool. Punishment and anger are not solutions to the problem. Keep calm; guide, coach and mentor.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2017 8:56 AM

2017-10-19T08:56:51-04:00

There is no excuse. I am outranked by kids almost half my age. It's a maturity thing and needs to be corrected.

Response by SPC Vonnie Jones made Oct 21 at 2017 11:27 PM

2017-10-21T23:27:20-04:00

Try your chain of command, you said different company right. Tell your squad leader, or platoon sergeant.

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Nov 6 at 2017 11:53 PM

2017-11-06T23:53:38-05:00

Had the same problem, early 80 Germany. we were very SPC4 heavy so we had them as TCs ect. Top would put senior SPC4s in charge of details. anyway PFC 1 giving me grief, PFC 2 telling him to can it.. just then Top came around the corner. problem solved.

Response by PFC Robert Rice made Nov 7 at 2017 1:41 AM

2017-11-07T01:41:57-05:00

With rank comes responsibilities. And one of those responsibilities is to teach subordinates respect. I'm sorry, disrespecting someone who outranks you is just asking for trouble. However if his squad leader or team leader won't do anything about it then go to your squad leader or team leader. You shouldn't have to put up with that kind of behavior. If all else fails catch him away from his leadership and smoke the hell out of him.

Response by SPC Linda Hinojosa made Nov 18 at 2017 9:17 PM

2017-11-18T21:17:28-05:00

Tell him to meet you after work, have a drink and kick his ass. That should solve that for a while.

Response by SPC Linda Hinojosa made Nov 18 at 2017 9:27 PM

2017-11-18T21:27:28-05:00

I was trying to gind mybpost to delete it. I come from the older army days. Things were different back then. So if you see my response, don't pay attention to the advice. You will be in trouble. Pray.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Nov 19 at 2017 4:02 PM

2017-11-19T16:02:20-05:00

what is he doing that is disrespectful? A little more insight would help. Mocking you because your from say Texas, no big deal. Mocking you do to an accent or ethnicity, culture, now he is crossing lines.

Response by SPC Wilkens Valme made Nov 19 at 2017 8:12 PM

2017-11-19T20:12:04-05:00

Actually file an EO report

Response by SPC Chris Toussaint made Feb 2 at 2018 9:30 AM

2018-02-02T09:30:26-05:00

Fuck him,his leadership, and the POV they drove on post with. Take his ass to woodline

Response by SPC David Willis made Feb 2 at 2018 10:50 AM

2018-02-02T10:50:42-05:00

It all depends on what your position as an E4 is. If you're a team leader you should take actual disciplinary action or corrective training. If you're not in a leadership position you should punch him in the face and keep doing so til he stops. If he's infantry like you are he wont whine about it and everything will be sorted.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2019 1:56 PM

2019-06-25T13:56:10-04:00

Wow calm down there American Hero, your still lower enlisted.

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made Mar 15 at 2020 7:38 PM

2020-03-15T19:38:51-04:00

I remember as a Junior NCO (SGT) when I was assigned to a new company and as 1st Squad SLvand Assistant PLT SGT, I had a problem with a soldier in another squad not doing what he was told to do and was very disrespectful. The PLT SGT was on leave, so I took over his responsibilities. As I was assigning daily tasks, this solder blurted out "Ain't no damn E-5 telling me what to do." I stopped, approached th soldier, reached in my left breast pocket, pulled out my card and read th soldier his rights under Article 31 of the UMCJ. I asked him if he understood his rights and what was about to happen. He said "Yes Sergeant." I asked him if we still had a problem, "No Sergeant". Are you going to comply with what is required of you, "Yes Sergeant". After that incident there were no other problems with him. Eventually I pulled him into my squad, took him under my wing, giving him guidance. This showed him that I cared and I wouldn't hesitate to put a boot in his ass when he needed it.

Response by SFC James Corona made Nov 6 at 2020 1:08 PM

2020-11-06T13:08:24-05:00

The PFC probably has an attitude problem. He or she isn't going to listen to you unless you are a ragbag SPC. I distanced myself with this type of soldiers until I made hard striped E-5. It's a different thing if he assaults you!

Response by SPC Tony James made Nov 8 at 2020 9:50 AM

2020-11-08T09:50:25-05:00

That sounds like to much politics involved. I had an incident with a guy that was disrespectful and he was the same rank as me but had been his rank a tad bit longer by a couple months. He literally tried to hold that over my head to try to justify his level of disrespect. Eventually, I had to confront this mindset with the help of my platoon Sargent.

Response by SPC David Lewis made Nov 20 at 2020 12:38 AM

2020-11-20T00:38:04-05:00

Go back to old army.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Dec 22 at 2020 6:15 PM

2020-12-22T18:15:31-05:00

Come on.. we know today's officer corps is absolutely not on board with good order and discipline and will be the last to back up any enlisted authority..

Response by SPC Lukas Mcwhorter made Dec 15 at 2021 1:50 AM

2021-12-15T01:50:01-05:00

Your gonna need some soap bars and a pillow...

Response by SPC Lesa Smith made Feb 21 at 2024 5:11 PM

2024-02-21T17:11:03-05:00

Be the first to report his disrespectful manner. Documentation is everything. Paper and pen or your Swords. Document everything because it could get physical and you may hurt him more than he hurts you. Then it would appear that you are the villain, but documentation will be your proof of innocent. I didn’t know to do that in my time and I became the villain. My case is a “Blaming the Victim” and the hatred came from my own defense attorneys, white racist men who had no accountability and answered to one. No pictures were taken and no report was filed for my account in my defense. I have been fighting for 41years and 10 months. I have been a veteran for going on 7 years still trying to get all that was taken for me.
Text to # [login to see]

Response by SPC Lesa Smith made Feb 21 at 2024 5:32 PM

2024-02-21T17:32:29-05:00

Somebody didn’t like my post. it was taken down. Text me If anybody got it, you can answer me. I don’t start trouble, it hunts me but I am winning. Remember the pen and paper are your swords.