How Is Intolerance Teaching Tolerance?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 02:45:25 -0500

Tolerance, Its a concept most construed to be one sided. In example; A soldier(1) has a poster of a female model in a bikini hanging on the wall. Several of this SM's(1) buddies come to the SM's(1) room to hang out and comment on the poster and appreciate it for what it is, ART. On another day a different SM(2) enters the room and finds the poster inappropriate and offensive, then in turn, reports SM(1) for having inappropriate material hanging on the wall. Now the SM(1) is forced to take down the poster that was so proudly displayed.

Now, what has happened here is that one soldier has failed to tolerate another soldiers concept of art and beauty and force the poster owner to not only tolerate the offended SM but also live as the offended SM would, without the poster.

This scenario is completely fictitious, but the concept is very real. Am I wrong to think that tolerating the intolerant is intolerable?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 2:55 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 02:55:50 -0500

SGT Hamilton....you are spot on here. In your example, the SM keep the posture in their room, where only those who entered could see it. If the "offended" SM doesn't like it, don't go back. However if it were in the work place, it may be a different situation.

I think this is no different than pushing religion, politics, orientation, ect someone. In this case, the "offended" SM is just a guilty for turning the SM in as for what they are reporting.

In most cases, if it is something that is really not hurting you, let it go!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 4:13 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 04:13:00 -0500

Today the word tolerance has become a mandate for every inane notion and chance for a lawsuit for the money.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Dec 3 at 2014 7:10 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 07:10:43 -0500

The unfortunate truth about tolerance is that those who cry the loudest for tolerance are, in most cases, some of the least tolerant themselves. They want others to respect their views/feelings/opinions, etc. with little to no respect in return. Victim mentality.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Dec 3 at 2014 7:27 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 07:27:50 -0500

What happened to, "live and let live", "turn the other cheek" and "all you need is love"? Today everything focuses on the ability to tolerate and determining what is or is not offensive. Everyone seems to be making it their business to push their views and morals and likes and dislikes on to others. You don't like something, turn away, don't make a case out of it. EVERYONE has their right to things and one person doesn't trump another. The other day, I had a personal fan on in my cube because I was warm. Someone complained, not to me but to their supervisor who then didn't ask, demanded I turn the fan off. The person sat 2 cubes away and there is no way my 6" fan was making them cold. they literally blew things right out of proportion. I refused to turn the fan off and then my supervisor got involved and told me to turn it off - WTF????

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2014 9:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 09:45:48 -0500

I think that this particular example is different than tolerance. I think this is more on the lines of respect and morals. While I agree that the human body has been a subject of art for centuries, but our society has sexualized each other to a point where many just find the idea disgusting. I find it very different when someone calls me beautiful versus hot or sexy.

I believe tolerating others' differences, beliefs, and desires is not something difficult to do. Tolerating acts against other people is different.

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Dec 3 at 2014 9:55 AM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 09:55:29 -0500

This is why I have become a Libertarian. The only way to be tolerant and have tolerance provided to you is to ignore that which upsets or bothers you. As long as it is not harming others or affecting the mission negatively, then what is the concern?

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Dec 3 at 2014 10:55 AM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 10:55:05 -0500

I believe our society and, as a result, our military has become too obsessed with "political correctness" and cater way too much to the vocal minority.

In the scenario you describe, assuming the poster is not obscene or vulgar (using contemporary definitions of such), what the soldier displays on the walls of his room should not be of concern to people who visit his room. If they do not like it, they have the right to not visit. If the unit thinks a picture of a female in a bikini is offensive, they are applying a much too strict definition of the word "offensive". If the "offended" party is a roommate, that would have more impact than if he/she was a visitor, however, even then, the unit commander should not apply an overly strict meaning to what is "obscene" or "inappropriate". I have seen/heard way too many instances of commanders dictating overly restrictive standards. Reminds me of the battles I used to have as the CENTCOM PM with Saudi authorities over Sports Illustrated and other magazines they considered obscene and wanted to bring charges against soldiers who had them in their possession. Are we trying to apply Muslim standards on our soldiers' barracks walls?

Different standards would apply for private areas and common-use areas and I think that soldiers' personal areas in the barracks fall into the "private area" category.

It is probably a good thing I retired. I would have a real hard time adapting to the overly PC mentality I see in today's military. I, for one, think we have gone overboard and it is not a good thing.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 5 at 2014 2:32 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:32:14 -0500

Here is the best solution: the Soldier who is offended should not enter that Soldier's room, and if he or she has any future problems with said Soldier, they would discuss it together and try to come to a solution before taking the complaint higher.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 2:57 PM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:57:28 -0500

I got inspected about two weeks ago and the actual rule is no open displays of pornography or drug use. A woman in a bikini should be fine, it might be a bit risqué, but it isn't porn.

If it's in a private living space it should be allowed, but it seems disrespectful as well as distasteful to put it up in a work space. The person has as much a right to be offended as you do of displaying it, but ultimately if you're putting it up on government property, such as a dorm, leadership has the final say.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 3:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Dec 2014 15:04:29 -0500

That story is happening all too often. At campbell, before I left, you couldn't openly read a muscle and fitness magazine with a shirtless guy on the front. This is the same type of intolerance used hundreds of years ago (hence the invention of the table cloth to cover those provocative table legs). This behavior is ignorance and intolerance to the extreme. Suppression of anything that might be deemed sexual only leads to further deviance. Under this ideology, maybe we should all cover our mouths considering that the mouth is involved more in sexual encounters than the parts not covered in a bikini.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 12:29 PM

MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:29:22 -0500

Intolerance teaches nothing but more intolerance. Who is to judge? What makes one more apt or qualified to judge what is unacceptable. Who other me is more adept at deciding what my children are allowed to view or not view? Some of the comments here scare the hell out of me. This talk about telling me what is and is not appropriate in my home smacks of fascism. Now when we discuss barracks living it always seems to be one sided. You don't have an overly large expectation of privacy in barracks because living there you know you have inspections. What has always bothered me about this is that family housing by and large is NOT inspected. So on one hand the PFC displaying wall art that he finds attractive (though others may find it distasteful) is subject to scrutiny whereas the MSG with teen children displaying the same is not. Simply put in housing you should be able to display anything you want. If another soldier finds it offensive he/she is not required to enter that space which is exactly why it is condemned in the workplace (it's inescapable). End point here is this. How long before I am hiding a Koran, a print of a Michealangelo or Bosch painting (or any Renaissance art), a copy of the Constitution, Huck Finn, Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, Narnia or an original press of NWA's Fear of a Black Planet in a secret room in my basement from the "firemen"? Some may see this as paranoia but huge atrocities have all occurred with that first small concession in the name of "the greater good". Tread carefully!

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Jun 15 at 2015 10:37 AM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Mon, 15 Jun 2015 10:37:52 -0400

I currently work in Early Head Start. I voiced-out that we cannot be culturally neutral. Even in the office setting their is the pressure to value paper work over adult-child relationship. In my classroom I believe I have to adjust to the classroom culture. I have to be sensitive to it, flexible to it. We are all learning.