How hard is it to go from USMC NCO to US Army Officer?

2015-06-29T18:23:14-04:00

How difficult is the move from USMC NCO to US ARMY Officer? pointers?
I feel like I have the capacity to succeed, but I want to know what others view as obstacles. I know there is are some major differences between Army and USMC, but how divisive are things on the Army side?

Response by Sgt Packy Flickinger made Jun 29 at 2015 6:43 PM

2015-06-29T18:43:45-04:00

Why do you want to take a step backwards?

Response by LTC John Shaw made Jun 29 at 2015 8:24 PM

2015-06-29T20:24:29-04:00

Are you looking for ROTC or direct commission? Active, guard or reserve?

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jun 30 at 2015 10:54 AM

2015-06-30T10:54:26-04:00

I didn't move over from NCO to officer, but I did move over from active duty USMC Officer to active duty Army Officer in order to serve in SOCOM (MARSOC did not exist at the time). If the career opportunity was available for me in the Marines at the time, I would have stayed in. However, many Marines switch over to the Army for broader career opportunities.

Switching over was a significant culture shock for sure, but I adjusted. The Army is much larger, and there is a lot more variety within it. In the Marines, people associate with the Marines. In the Army, people associate more often with their unit or specialty. The Army is just so large, it can't have the same bond that Marines do. However, if you go into a career field that you enjoy, you can can benefit from some of that camaraderie within your field (though it will probably never match the Marines).

The Marines tend to pride themselves more on discipline, customs, camaraderie, and being combat focused (every Marine a rifleman). The Army is much more diverse... a much bigger tent if you will. You have a lot more kinds of people in the Army. There are plenty of great officers, NCOs, and Soldiers in the Army. If you have an opportunity to transfer into a career field or career track that you are excited about, and cannot otherwise do so in the Marines, you will probably not regret it. Just be ready for some cultural changes.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 11:54 AM

2015-06-30T11:54:04-04:00

I did it...went from 0311 Sgt (3/2 at Camp LeJeune) to commissioning as an Army 2LT in 2004. From my experience, there were both tangible and intangible obstacles in the move. Tangible obstacles were getting released from Stop Loss (in late 03), getting into an officer producing program and finding a place to live. If it weren't for an involved chain of command at 3/2 who helped me (and who even as an Army Major I seek out for mentorship), I would not have been able to move forward. (To answer an obvious question, I pursued being a Marine officer and wasn't picked up into MCP, I then decided I wanted to be an officer more than I wanted to be a Marine, and people helped me make that happen).

The intangibles were moving from one culture to another one; I actually made multiple transitions in the 18 month between leaving active duty and returning to it (I needed 3 semesters to finish my degree). Leaving a position of respect and turning into a Cadet was rough...being 30 years old and having 22 year old Army E4's lock my heels was tough to swallow, but I was focused on my goal. Also dealing with college "kids" was hard for me...I was amazed that people were as undisciplined and caring about the gift of education as they were. The final transition for me was adopting the identity of "Army Officer", which was distinct from "Marine NCO" or even "leader". It took me a while to realize I wasn't just an overpaid sergeant that people had to salute, but that I was supposed to be doing something different.

I don't want to go on too long here; if you want to talk offline, shoot me a note.

Response by MAJ Felix Gregorian made Jun 30 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-06-30T12:54:39-04:00

SGT Martin, David,
I think it is much easier than you think.
It might be easier in Army Reserve than direct commission.
You have a 4 year deg for any commission and perhaps a 2 year deg in nursing for Nurse Corps (in case).
Ask the closest recruiting agent for Army and it would be matter of resign form your NCO commission or complete it and join the Commission in the Army. The rest is down hill.
good luck.
All the best.
Felix Gregorian (MAJ, US Army Retired)

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 1:25 PM

2015-06-30T13:25:06-04:00

As a Joint Officer, I work extensively with all the services. From my perspective, as a Marine Joint Officer, you will experience a cultural adjustment, but nothing too onerous. Just be certain to maintain a flexibility of mind. As has been stated by others, many Marines opt for the Army and the other services to broaden their opportunities. It's not a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a thing. The Army, overall, as a culture is quite doctrinaire, while the Marine Corps is more "entrepreneurial". There's an old joke that lays this out pretty well. Two LtCols were talking at the Army War College, one was an Army 0-5, the Other a Marine 0-5. After listening to the Army 0-5 pontificate for an hour about the Army's doctrine, the Marine was asked what the Marine Corps' doctrine was. The Marine LtCol responded "we don't have any doctrine, we make it up when we get there":) No matter which branch you serve with, you'll always be a Marine. Good luck and smooth sailing.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 1:51 PM

2015-06-30T13:51:04-04:00

Almost everyone will embrace you because a Leader is a Leader. There are differences to contend with, but most of those are not specific to the USMC. They have to do with going from Stripes to Bars, and every NCO learns from them.

As a former Army OCS Instructor the only thing I would caution you is to remember the only "DECK" in the Army holds Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs and Spades. AND NO ONE dares come to Attention on them - unless they are the Joker.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 2:18 PM

2015-06-30T14:18:22-04:00

I happen to attend school on a Navy facility and of course have Marine classmates. We have actually chatted about this. I do not think there is any hidden barriers. The most difficult thing is crossing branches. If you decide to switch there are several routes you can take. First talk with a recruiter to see if it is possible for you to go directly to OCS. If not cross over and talk with your commander about being mentored and recommended to go to OCS. They had a program called blue to green which allowed soldiers to transfer minimum resistance. Keep in mind a couple of things. First you have to meet the requirements of being a officer and second there has to be a need in the Army. If the position isn't available they don't just create one. If you really feel you are qualified you may consider being a Warrant Officer. Best of luck.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 2:34 PM

2015-06-30T14:34:54-04:00

SGT,
I changed from SGT active duty USMC (2BN 3D MAR, 3DMARDIV) to SGT National Guard reservist. The culture shock was quite big but I think most of it was because I worked with reservists. I did this for four years before doing the National Guard traditional OCS program (18 months, one weekend a month). You will learn to lose some of the discipline and language you learn in the USMC, but the general military "feeling" is the same. You will have the same pride and bond with Soldier's as you had with your Devil Dogs.

Also, to be quite honest, being an Officer is much different than being an NCO. Your adjustment will not be determined by if you were prior enlisted Marine, but your ability to become a leader. Don't let your pride hinder you. Keep an open mind and you will be fine.

Response by CDR Skip Albee made Jun 30 at 2015 2:37 PM

2015-06-30T14:37:08-04:00

I am also a Marine Sgt who retired as a Navy Cmdr.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-06-30T14:49:42-04:00

Both easy and hard, at the same time, for different reasons. The hard part: adjusting to not being a sergeant anymore, and being a "boot" again. As an officer candidate, I was suddenly a boot, whose tiniest infraction was noted immediately. This was tough to get over. I went to active duty federal Officer Candidate School (OCS) in Fort Benning, and it took me the first two weeks to adjust my mindset into being a candidate.

The easy part: I found that my experience going from the Marines to the Army was easy. I went to Army Primary Leadership Development Course (PLDC) and excelled there. I went to Army Basic Non-Commissioned Officer's Course (BNCOC), and excelled there as well. At OCS, after getting over the first two weeks and adjusting my mindset, I had no trouble.

So I leave you with this: go into it knowing that you are NOT a non-commissioned officer anymore. That is in the past. Just treat it like when you put your feet on those yellow footprints at MCRD, a restart. When you succeed and earn your commission, then you can reach back to the toolkit of all you learned as a Marine Non-Commissioned Officer and you will excel.

Response by 1LT A. Uribe made Jun 30 at 2015 3:54 PM

2015-06-30T15:54:37-04:00

It's a hard pill to swallow if you have a lot of NCO in you. My experience as an E-7 was that I was helpless in a lot of ways. They know who is weak, and they want to get rid of some people "sink or swim" most of which are 09S so not much experience there. It's a team building course, but at the same time you're the lone man in the island. I was a teach, coach and mentor NCO so it was hard to apply this when you're not allowed. At a certain point everyone knows everything, except when in charge

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jun 30 at 2015 4:04 PM

2015-06-30T16:04:30-04:00

I would say it would depend on what you get branched, which I not often your choice. You could end up being branched something less than what you wanted, and end up with troops who don't want to hear Marine Whoa stuff. Then again you may end up with people who eat that stuff up for breakfast.

Response by CW3 Clayton C. made Jun 30 at 2015 11:33 PM

2015-06-30T23:33:12-04:00

I was an Active Duty Marine Sergeant that switched to the Army. I worked hard and got promoted to Sergeant First Class just as a byproduct, that and EOD promoted rapidly. Then I became a Warrant Officer because I wanted to change my slice of the Army for the better, raise my level of responsibility and increase my sphere of influence for future leaders. Also, the retirement stands to be a bit better. I think that's enough qualifiers to join the conversation. It's been my experience that it will all be in the way you approach things. Former Marine or no, if you come in with an "I'm better than you attitude," you will meet with quite a bit of resistance. Your own support system will shut you out and you will fail. However, if you come at everything with an open mind and willingness to learn, and yes there will be a lot to learn, you will be quite successful. The one piece of advice I can give you is this. Turn on that tenacity that made you a successful Marine and you will be a successful Soldier. And one more thing, if you haven't yet, learn to listen more than you speak. You're going to do just fine. If I can do it anyone can.

Response by CWO4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 12:45 PM

2015-07-01T12:45:10-04:00

I have been a Marine for nearly 26 years and wanted to do the same earlier in my NCO days, but opted to stay and became a Marine Warrant Officer.

If you decide to transition to the Army Corps as an officer, you must have a 4 yr degree. You know whats best for you and if you are willing to make the sacrifices to succeed and endure the journey..... jusy do it.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 1:28 PM

2015-07-01T13:28:56-04:00

I commissioned with several former Marine NCOs at my commissioning program. (National Guard OCS Accelerated with the Alabama Military Academy.) Those guys flourished and thrived in the high stress environment that we were in. Like LT Johnson said, leave ego at the door. Other than that, those guys used the negative experiences they had with "bad officers" as lessons learned in applying to their leadership styles as Army officers. Good luck to you.

"It Shall Be Done"

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-07-01T14:17:09-04:00

In 1999 I left the Active Duty Marine Corps as a 1stLT on the O3 promotion list. I was promoted to Capt. in the USMCR (IRR). Two years later, after 9-11, I tried to go back on active duty but was pretty much told, "thanks we'll call you if we need you". So, I did what ever God-fearing Patriot would do. I joined the Army. A couple years later, as an Army CPT I was in Command of a Rifle Company. My biggest questions were "why did I only own 2 60mm Mortars, and why where there only 2 teams (vice 3) in my Squad formations. Point is, the military structure as a whole is more similar than it is different. Now my experience has been combat arms in both services, so I'm comparing "Green apples to red apples". I imagine if you were a Combat Arms NCO in the Marine Corps, and became a logistician Officer in the Army, your experiences might be different. But Not that much different say you were an 0311 Marine, and commissioned as a 0402 Marine Officer.
The leadership instilled in a SGT, Sgt., SSgt, or PO3 should transfer over to the basic leadership principles needed as a JMO, regardless if you are a 2ndLT, 2LT, or ENS. Furthermore, as a "Mustang" you understand what it means to be a "joe". Hopefully this will help influence your decisions and reduce making dumb decisions since you have actual experience. Of course be prepared for the same inter-service rivalry when you are asked "why did you switch". You are always welcome to use my answer, which pays homage to an old recruiting line; I simply say, "I heard the Army was looking for a few good officers". Good luck!

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 2:36 PM

2015-07-01T14:36:46-04:00

There is a misconception regarding the differences in the services. Are there different standards, customs, traditions? Yes. But don't be fooled. Being an NCO in the Marine Corps (I was) and becoming an Army officer (CW5 in my case) is not an automatic, easy step. The Army typically requires a college degree and an MOS that is in demand. Given the current draw down, all the branches can be more selective. I'd go for it. I did and never regretted it. I chose the Warrant Officer route, but could have gone for a commission (W-2 thru W-5 are all commissioned). Easiest track is ROTC, otherwise OCS if selected. Good luck.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 3:10 PM

2015-07-01T15:10:05-04:00

Active or Reserve is first big question. On reserve side I had a Marine DI in my OCS class....he was honor grad btw. Lingo not a big deal, culture, you can adjust. Army ranks have many former Marines.

If AD, bit more of a challenge, but I am not the guy to answer that.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 3:14 PM

2015-07-01T15:14:57-04:00

I'm a recruiting officer for an Army ROTC program. It is fairly simple provided you can: make the grades, pass the APFT, do well at CST, have a major that makes you valuable and have three years of college remaining.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 3:36 PM

2015-07-01T15:36:40-04:00

Bottom line is that it's no issue at all. There have been some really excellent answers already, but as a former FMF HM who became an Army officer, I can tell you that my experience has been overwhelmingly positive. As previous posters have said, understand there will be some initial culture shock, but if you approach your new career as a learning experience, you should do just fine.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 1:42 AM

2015-07-02T01:42:43-04:00

I think a lot depends on you. I can tell you, from my perspective as an Army officer, my opinions, but they are just that -- my opinions. My first gut, visceral response is that if you become an Army officer, and I was your boss, I would absolutely use you as a liaison when necessary with the USMC. My experience: Marine officers didn't think Army officers knew jack or crap about anything when we worked with them in Anbar province in 2004, when we'd been there for six months, and they treated us as such. They made my battalion re-do accountability after a rocket attack because they didn't trust we'd done it correctly. We had six months' practice; we'd done it correctly. Our experience, our efforts, our methods and our lessons learned simply didn't matter. If you want to know more about that, message me; unfortunately I have plenty of examples. Before that, I thought the whole rivalry thing was just talk. It's not.

(There are several Marine officers I like, especially my best friend from college, and I had awesome experiences with Marine Warrants. Unfortunately, I wasn't dealing with anyone I knew.)

I loved enlisted Marines. They were hardworking, polite, and dedicated. But there is also, I think, a difference in the relationship between officers and enlisted in the two branches.

Soldiers will question. Marines, from what I have seen, question less. I think it has to do with culture and traditional mission. Marines, traditionally, assault beaches, which tends to result in a lot of casualties. Where there is water and beaches, there is almost no cover or concealment. They almost have to have instilled in them a near-blind willingness to follow orders. The few, the proud... You have to know, to absolutely trust, that everyone around you is going to be doing his/her part. It takes a different, more intense obedience.

Soldiers don't have the same kind of traditional mission, first of all. I think Marines probably judge us as undisciplined and disrespectful. I think our cross-ranks relationships areva tad more casual. Not unprofessional, just not what I've seen in the Marines. We're not, at all, disrespectful. We're just different.

We very often operate in very small units: fire teams, squads, sections, etc. We also don't have the same emphasis on every one of us being Infantry, first, although most of our schools use basic infantry tactics as common ground. There are more of us, so we can afford to do that. Our logistics Soldiers can defend themselves, for example, but most of us aren't trained to raid a house.

Marines also have PR down to a fine art, at all levels. When Marines execute an operation successfully, it'll be in the news, and there's going to be a book. Guaranteed. Marines have the best commercials, hands down. And when someone like Bing West writes a book (like he wrote about Anbar in 2004-2005), he's going to ignore as much as possible any Army participation. (I guess that's 'good editing,' but how do you name a Brigade Commander and Brigade CSM, mention their respective Bronze and Silver Stars for an action, but never even mention the Brigade they led?) Forgive the bitterness, but yes, I'm still pissed off. We were there, too, and just as an interesting sidenote, or less. 'First Brigade, 1st Infantry Division' does not take up that much space. Maybe he thought we sucked; if so, I can counter that, too.

Maybe we just measured success differently. I genuinely don't know. I wish I could tell you, because it might inform your decision one way or another. But it was brutal.

All that said, let me clarify: Marines and Soldiers, both, will always do what they need to do to accomplish the mission. We all support and defend the Constitution. We all work to minimize casualties, but we collectively do not err on the side of cowardice to prevent them. Both forces are valid and necessary. But culturally, we differ.

I would go to war with enlisted Marines in a heartbeat. If a Marine officer is not a very short list of people I personally know, or directly recommended by one of those people... I'd at least have to get to know him/her, first. That's as honest as I can be.

If you plan to commission through ROTC, try to do training with both Army and Navy ROTC (NROTC includes Marine option). Or even if you're near a college that has both, go talk to the cadre and check them out. Talk to both about the differences and similarities. Try to talk to both officers and NCOs. There are so many factors that apply, and ultimately it all come down to people. There are good and bad people in both forces. There is good and bad leadership in both. There are units with good camaraderie, and units that don't; both can reverse based on leadership.

I loved being in the Army. There were both good and bad facets. I deeply respect all of the other branches -- I believe we do ultimately augment each other, and that when we do work together it's a beautiful thing that rightly terrifies our enemies. I also think there's a reason there's not a lot of crossover between the Army and Marines, that we usually have separate areas of responsibility and operations.

Whatever you decide to do, you're going to face changes in how you think and in your responsibilities when you commission. I submit that, whichever route you take, your best bet is to consider your experience to date as part of your education, as part of your construction into a leader, and to use your LT time to watch, listen and learn to shift your perspective. Engage, take charge, but listen twice as much as you speak -- don't be That Guy who can't or won't take off his/her stripes, or who became an 'O' because of better pay and "better" hours. Being an officer is harder in some ways and easier in others, but it is never easy and it is always extremely visible.

Best wishes, and if you need/want further clarification or if I can be of further assistance, please don't hesitate to ask (yes, even if you become a Marine officer). :) Godspeed, and Semper Fi!

Hannah Heishman
MAJ, LOG (RET)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-07-02T14:49:41-04:00

I was in the Marine Corps Reserves from 1990 to 1996. I was deployed during Desert Shield/Desert Storm as a PFC/Lance Corporal. Went IRR in 96 and was honorably discharged in 98. After a 15 year break in service I joined the Army Reserve Nurse Corps as a First Lieutenant. Going from enlisted Marine to Army Nursing Officer was a bit of a culture shock. The two biggest differences are the sheer size of the Army compared to the Marine Corps and the increase in self direction that goes with being an officer. It's nothing you wont be able to adapt to. I promise it beats the hell out of going the other direction.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2015 3:01 PM

2015-07-02T15:01:42-04:00

I went from USMC AD NCO, to Guard Officer after a break in service...culture shock yes, I always catch myself saying, "In the Marine Corps...", Soldiers hate it, but there are a lot of prior service Marines in the Guard. So, forget everything you learned about the military, just use your personal characteristics/ traits/ work ethic, and prepare for a lot of head scratching, but I can honestly say it's not nearly as bad as you've been programmed to believe by the Corps.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 11:41 PM

2015-09-13T23:41:13-04:00

It shouldnt be hard at all. These are two different sets of ranks versus branches. The NCO mindset and work ethic, assuming you are a good NCO, will prove to be great assets to the officers ranks. USMC has a great history of great enlisted, warrants and officers and it should translate seemslessly into a sister branch.

As far as culture it will be like going from one high school to another but make no difference that expectations will be as hard or as easy as if you were to be Army NCO to Army Officer and I assume that would have been the same from Marine NCO to Devildog Officer.

Please be open minded and be receptive. Like with any change from one unit to any other, dont start sentences with: "when I was in the Marines we used to do this and that and I think is better than Army blah blah". Be ok with being corrected and ask... ask if you dont know the acronym or the implied message. Do not play along as you know. I found that asking to peers and been ignorant about something in the Army you are unfamiliar with would not play against you. In fact you will have other highspeed individuals facilitating the knowledge energetically.

I think that through the branches we welcome anybody from a sister branch or prior service, and we respect and make fun of each other equally great and equally bad, LOL!

I have the distinct pleasure and honor that I served in the Navy as enlisted and made was an NCO. I switched to Army and I was enlisted, warrant and now I am a commissioned officer. I served along with Marines and funny enough when I was in the Army attending my enlisted MOS I hanged with prior service Marines during our reclassing, LOL!

I think that serving in different branches is a great experience. In factif I could I would finish my career with the AF just because I think it would be interesting.

Anyways just be open to learn and ask, be humble and you be nothing but great as you been in the Marines Corps.

PS: Just make sure you dont say HOORAH... the Army says HOOAH so drop the R!

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2015 10:09 AM

2015-09-25T10:09:12-04:00

I'm in a similar boat - I would like to pursue this avenue as well, as my area is very limited in what I can do with USMC-R. Did you do anything in this regard Sgt Martin?