How do you handle it when a Soldier makes an Honest Mistake or commits an Unforgivable sin? https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Have you ever had a Soldier make a mistake, sometimes a serious mistake? What is appropriate action? Is it a slap on the wrist, corrective training, or UCMJ? How do you determine which action is appropriate?<br /><br />In my opinion there are 2 categories of mistakes.<br /><br />Honest Mistakes: when a Soldier makes an honest mistake, it is usually handled by corrective training. So, what is an honest mistake? It could be anything from a Soldier making a mistake during training or to failing make a formation on time due to forgetfulness or oversleeping. There are some Honest mistakes that could still get you in trouble (example: Negligent Weapons Discharge), but those should be few and far between<br />Unforgivable Sins: Any action that is illegal, unethical, immoral, or unsafe falls into this category. If a Soldier’s actions fall into this category, they usually knew the action was wrong before they did it. Example: inappropriate relationships, gambling with subordinates, abusing subordinates, hazing, bullying, etc. In these cases, rarely is mercy applied as this was a willful decision. In some rare cases it could be a lack of proper education on the Soldier’s part but these instances should be few and far between. In these cases there might be room to apply some level of mercy and/or forgiveness and education, depending on the situation.<br /><br />So how are you handling these types of mistakes? Take some time to think through recent events and determine how you handled the issue and how you could have handled it better. I believe most issues fall into the honest mistake category…. some honest mistakes are more serious than others (example Negligent Weapons Discharge) and may require more than corrective training but only you can make that decision. If you are unsure talk to your leadership team. Do your best to be reasonable, fair, and remove emotion from the equation. Treat the Soldier the way you want to be treated within the guidelines established by the Army. <br /><br />Keep in mind you and I both most likely made some serious mistakes during our career. How did our leaders handle the situation? Were they forgiving and understanding, did they show no mercy? The choice is yours and it is a balancing act.<br /><br />Jut remember your decision can have unintended consequences. For example, you recommend the Soldier for a Summary Article 15 for being late. Later it is time to reenlist and the Soldier cannot reenlist because of the Article 15. Was that your intent or did you just lose a good Soldier because you failed to use corrective training when this level of intervention would have been appropriate? <br /><br />Think before you act! Leadership is not easy and it is best to think through the problem, reach out to leaders you see as level headed and/or mentors. The key is to make the right decision…your decisions have both intended and unintended consequences. Tue, 19 May 2020 12:31:39 -0400 How do you handle it when a Soldier makes an Honest Mistake or commits an Unforgivable sin? https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Have you ever had a Soldier make a mistake, sometimes a serious mistake? What is appropriate action? Is it a slap on the wrist, corrective training, or UCMJ? How do you determine which action is appropriate?<br /><br />In my opinion there are 2 categories of mistakes.<br /><br />Honest Mistakes: when a Soldier makes an honest mistake, it is usually handled by corrective training. So, what is an honest mistake? It could be anything from a Soldier making a mistake during training or to failing make a formation on time due to forgetfulness or oversleeping. There are some Honest mistakes that could still get you in trouble (example: Negligent Weapons Discharge), but those should be few and far between<br />Unforgivable Sins: Any action that is illegal, unethical, immoral, or unsafe falls into this category. If a Soldier’s actions fall into this category, they usually knew the action was wrong before they did it. Example: inappropriate relationships, gambling with subordinates, abusing subordinates, hazing, bullying, etc. In these cases, rarely is mercy applied as this was a willful decision. In some rare cases it could be a lack of proper education on the Soldier’s part but these instances should be few and far between. In these cases there might be room to apply some level of mercy and/or forgiveness and education, depending on the situation.<br /><br />So how are you handling these types of mistakes? Take some time to think through recent events and determine how you handled the issue and how you could have handled it better. I believe most issues fall into the honest mistake category…. some honest mistakes are more serious than others (example Negligent Weapons Discharge) and may require more than corrective training but only you can make that decision. If you are unsure talk to your leadership team. Do your best to be reasonable, fair, and remove emotion from the equation. Treat the Soldier the way you want to be treated within the guidelines established by the Army. <br /><br />Keep in mind you and I both most likely made some serious mistakes during our career. How did our leaders handle the situation? Were they forgiving and understanding, did they show no mercy? The choice is yours and it is a balancing act.<br /><br />Jut remember your decision can have unintended consequences. For example, you recommend the Soldier for a Summary Article 15 for being late. Later it is time to reenlist and the Soldier cannot reenlist because of the Article 15. Was that your intent or did you just lose a good Soldier because you failed to use corrective training when this level of intervention would have been appropriate? <br /><br />Think before you act! Leadership is not easy and it is best to think through the problem, reach out to leaders you see as level headed and/or mentors. The key is to make the right decision…your decisions have both intended and unintended consequences. CSM Mark Gerecht Tue, 19 May 2020 12:31:39 -0400 2020-05-19T12:31:39-04:00 Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2020 12:40 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910366&urlhash=5910366 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Purchasing a brand new sports car just to show off when they do not have the financial means to keep up with payments and have a family to feed. That would not be considered an honest mistake in my opinion. That is simple irresponsibility on their part. SFC Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 19 May 2020 12:40:30 -0400 2020-05-19T12:40:30-04:00 Response by Wayne Soares made May 19 at 2020 12:44 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910385&urlhash=5910385 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Great piece Wayne Soares Tue, 19 May 2020 12:44:19 -0400 2020-05-19T12:44:19-04:00 Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made May 19 at 2020 12:54 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910430&urlhash=5910430 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Why would a Summary Article 15 prevent a soldier from re-enlisting in the Army, at least one that is under the rank of E5? Under E5, a field grade Article 15 stays in that soldiers local file and is discarded after two years or when they PCS. Even with NCO&#39;s, whom I would hold to a higher standard, the Commander has the option of putting it in his Restricted File, where in theory it shouldn&#39;t affect his ability to continue an Army Career. <br /><br />I know that different services treat Article 15&#39;s differently.<br /><br />Other than that question, good article. CPT Lawrence Cable Tue, 19 May 2020 12:54:52 -0400 2020-05-19T12:54:52-04:00 Response by LT Brad McInnis made May 19 at 2020 1:30 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910601&urlhash=5910601 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I had a sailor stating Engineering Watch while we were in port under our own power (no shore power) overseas. Our engineering lineup required the watch to refill the head tank every so often so the generator would still run and provide power. This sailor, unfortunately, was more worried about playing a game on his laptop he brought into the watch station. Needless to say, the tank ran out of fuel, while our CO was on a host nation ship down the pier from us. Not a good look. <br /><br />Since I was the Chief Engineer, I was pissed. Checked to see with the IT folks that he was actively scrolling through the game at the time we went dark. Took me a bit to calm down and realize that no one was hurt, just a little pride hurt. So, took him to mast, made him serve his punishment, and afterwords, told him he had a new slate but short rope. He screwed up, paid the price, don&#39;t let it happen again. He was a pretty darn good sailor after that... LT Brad McInnis Tue, 19 May 2020 13:30:48 -0400 2020-05-19T13:30:48-04:00 Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2020 1:53 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910685&urlhash=5910685 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think there are more than 2 categories of mistakes and various levels of severity, but a mistake is a mistake nonetheless. There shouldn&#39;t be a defined if X happens, then Y is the punishment. Total Soldier Concept should always be factored into the equation along with events leading up to said mistake, prior knowledge of what wrong looks like, and the Soldier&#39;s leadership. This boils down to a leader knowing and understanding his/her subordinates. As leaders, it is our responsibility to know and be involved with our Soldiers and their situations. Our involvement, or lack of involvement, could play a factor in how they make decisions in and out of work. <br />In order for us to determine which action is appropriate, we need to factor in everything. This needs to be documented with our recommendation to the Commander. We as leaders should backwards plan from our desired end state for that Soldier and recommend an appropriate punishment to get to that end state for the purpose of rehabilitation. Sometimes its as simple as a 4856 with corrective training and sometimes its UCMJ. SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 19 May 2020 13:53:13 -0400 2020-05-19T13:53:13-04:00 Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made May 19 at 2020 3:13 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5910907&urlhash=5910907 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have 4 types of mistakes:Honest, Negligent, Lying &amp; Cheating &amp; Stealing, and BFs. I hate the BFs the most. I knew an E-7 who stole money from his NCO friends with a fake mutual fund scheme. Like I said I hate BFs because they are scum for hurting other soldiers. Soldiers should help each other, not prey on other soldiers. I called CID and he became an E-2. Fortunately I never had to deal with lying cheating and stealing except for that E-7. Those soldiers who made mistakes like DUIs or coming hot on a piss test knew from their NCOs I would be pissed if they came to my office and made excuses. I told the NCOs what my expectations were. Unfortunately the DUIs and hot piss test soldiers, well their fate was out of my hands, but I personally worked with them by increasing their confidence before they got chaptered. I did not want to send a broken soldier back into society, so I mentored them. <br /><br />My first field problem as a Tank PL, I was walking in the field when I noticed night vision goggles on the ground from my #3 tank. I was not pleased with that, and I implemented full hands on sensitive items check before we leave an area and when we get to a new area. That could have ended that tank commander and my careers instantly.<br /><br />I understood soldiers would make honest mistakes. I made honest mistakes. Most of the honest mistakes made by the soldiers were not grave. If they came up to me to mention a mistake was made I never got mad. I wanted them to come to me and be honest. I wanted them not to fear me so they can be open to me. MAJ Ken Landgren Tue, 19 May 2020 15:13:54 -0400 2020-05-19T15:13:54-04:00 Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 19 at 2020 4:06 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5911044&urlhash=5911044 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Concur, and all you can do is preach those committing Unforgivable Sins, will be personally escorted to Hell, and left when my pass is up!. SGM Bill Frazer Tue, 19 May 2020 16:06:40 -0400 2020-05-19T16:06:40-04:00 Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2020 5:55 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5911456&urlhash=5911456 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>When it comes to honest mistakes that even if my leadership is aware of and I can keep punishment at my discretion, I tell my soldiers like I was taught. &quot;You get one fuck up&quot;. Whether it be a soldier being late, forgetting something, etc. If my soldier has no history of being a problem soldier and I feel I can handle it by letting it be a teachable moment, I might do some corrective action or just verbally counsel the soldier and let them know that&#39;s their one fuck up or pass they get from me. <br /><br />Back in my platoon in the 173rd we&#39;d rotate the junior enlisted around squads to get them proficient in all skill level 1 aspects of being a mortarman, and they knew that they get one pass from me. Some would say &quot;SGT I&#39;ll take the smoking, can I keep that one fuck up pass?&quot; And for the most part, I&#39;ve never had them fuck up more than once. SSG Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 19 May 2020 17:55:13 -0400 2020-05-19T17:55:13-04:00 Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 19 at 2020 6:44 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5911629&urlhash=5911629 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div><a class="dark-link bold-link" role="profile-hover" data-qtip-container="body" data-id="543728" data-source-page-controller="question_response_contents" href="/profiles/543728-csm-mark-gerecht">CSM Mark Gerecht</a> I agree with your dividing mistakes into two types and your recommendations for how to handle them. Good leadership lessons. I lived in what was then-known as the one-mistake Air Force. The Service paradigm at the time was simply, screw the pooch once and you&#39;re done. This unforgiving attitude came out of Strategic Air Command and its nuclear mission. &quot;Forgiveness is Devine, but not SAC policy&quot; was a popular saying. That mind set rubbed off on the other major commands and became part of the fabric of the Service. <br /><br />My supervisors were good at separating honest mistakes from career fatal mistakes. I made several honest mistakes that probably should have been career enders, but my supervisors saw some qualities in me that allowed them to forgive, but not forget. Perhaps the following may be good for a laugh or lesson.<br /><br />I was the Director of Current Operations for an Airlift Group. Part of my job was to task flying squadrons to fly missions in coordination with aircraft maintenance, command post, and aerial port. We faxed the schedule to our &quot;partners&quot; each afternoon for the next day. We also entered the schedule into an automated system (text based, mainframe). One Friday we set up a Saturday three-ship personnel drop for the neighboring Army Brigade as a demonstration for some visiting Generals. The flying Squadron scheduled highly qualified crews to fly the mission and the Squadron Ops officer as the mission commander. Aerial Port didn&#39;t have much to do for this mission and maintenance had allocated four aircraft for the mission (3 plus a spare). Come Saturday, the aircrews briefed, went to the aircraft, a stick of paratroopers uploaded onto each aircraft, and the mission took off on time. About 30 minutes later they were inbound to the Army&#39;s drop zone. The aircrews were unable to get in contact with the Combat Control Team on the drop zone. They tried all the published frequencies. With no CCT, the mission commander called no-drop. The C-130s did a nice formation flight over the DZ and headed North into a holding pattern. Meanwhile the Mission Commander was on the radio to Command Post. &quot;Where the f*** is the CCT?&quot; The Command Post controller called the CCT Chief (E-9) at home who swore they didn&#39;t know about the mission. He said he could be on the DZ in about 45 minutes if the formation wanted to try again. Meanwhile Command Post got hold of the Army. The MG hosting the VIPs was upset to say the least. He had no desire to sit around for an hour while &quot;the Air Force got them selves Unf****ed.&quot; To bring the story to a close, the Group Ops Officer (O-6) called me, chewed my ass, and told me to be in his office on Monday morning. I arrived Monday sure I would be fired and sent to the flying squadron to sit on my ass until my upcoming PCS (about 6 months). I had made the &quot;one mistake&quot;. On Monday, the Colonel was surprisingly good natured about the situation. He recounted how he had to placate the General and the Group Commander, who both wanted my ass or head or both. We talked about how it happened. It turns out the CCT folks bolted about 1300 Friday (it was fishing season). The Faxed schedule arrived about 1500, so they claimed they didn&#39;t see it. It was my fault for not having one of my folks call the CCT to make sure they knew about the Saturday performance. The Colonel told me to get back to work and to try not to f***up again before I PCS-ed. Obviously, my response was a somewhat relieved &quot;yes, sir.&quot; We did learn from our mistake. We put together a checklist that required one of the Current Ops staff to call and coordinate with the flying Squadron, Aerial Port, CCT, and Maintenance for every airdrop mission. (Remember all of this happened before e-mail, text messaging, cell phones, or social media.) Lt Col Jim Coe Tue, 19 May 2020 18:44:39 -0400 2020-05-19T18:44:39-04:00 Response by Maj John Bell made May 19 at 2020 11:35 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=5912481&urlhash=5912481 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Errors of judgment - teach<br />Errors of enthusiasm - teach and little mind numbing extra military instruction for time to reflect<br />Errors of attention - teach once, hammer the second time, career ender the third time<br />Errors of malice - crucify on the road to Rome Maj John Bell Tue, 19 May 2020 23:35:44 -0400 2020-05-19T23:35:44-04:00 Response by CSM Jerry Weldon made Apr 11 at 2021 7:32 PM https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-do-you-handle-it-when-a-soldier-makes-an-honest-mistake-or-commits-an-unforgivable-sin?n=6894891&urlhash=6894891 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>look in the mirror and then make your decision. CSM Jerry Weldon Sun, 11 Apr 2021 19:32:13 -0400 2021-04-11T19:32:13-04:00 2020-05-19T12:31:39-04:00