How do you handle a Stolen Valor encounter?

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 01:02:23 -0500

What was the situation you encountered, and how did you handle it? I'll start it off.

It wasn't your typical, what you hear these days, type of stolen valor. This man wasn't in uniform, wasn't parading around touting his affiliation. He was an elderly gentleman, who appeared to be homeless. Who claimed to be homeless.

I was out on the town (a casino on Fremont Street in Las Vegas). My buddy and I were headed back to the bar when this elderly gentleman approached us. He asked for some money, and in the spirit of the holidays we told him we'd help him out.

As we were walking with him to the ATM we struck up a conversation, asking him about himself. At some point in the conversation he asked us if we were military. Mind you, we weren't discussing military things or our personal life with him, I had longer than normal hair as I hadn't gotten a haircut in almost three weeks, and my buddy is retired with a beard and long hair. Why he asked if we were in the military, is still beyond me.

We told him our respective situations, what we do, etc. He then told us that he was in the military too. What then started striking us odd, is when we asked him about his service, he wouldn't tell us what rank he was when he left the military, what branch he was in, where he served, what his job was, anything specific at all. He just adamantly repeated that he served, got offended, became agitated, and then left us before we even could make it to the ATM.

We ended up looking for him, found him, and confronted him about the whole thing. He admitted that he lied, and that he in-fact had never served. He apologized for it, said he did it because he thought we would only help if he told us that he served, and promised he wouldn't do it again to others. We gave him some money and went along our way.

This whole event really ate at me for a few reasons. The first, was just seeing someone in need. Everyone could use some help every now and again. It could be someone's dad, brother, uncle... It then bothered me even more, because the thought of those that HAVE served, and made the ultimate sacrifice, and lost their lives. Here is this individual, attempting to get the honor, but never having made ANY sacrifice.

What about you guys? Any situations to share? How did you shake the lingering feeling of anger, disgust, and just generally being upset?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 1:23 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 01:23:56 -0500

I was with Civil Air Patrol at an air show and I saw who appeared to be an army colonel in BDU which was the uniform at the time I chatted with him he seemed to be a nice person however he was a little sketchy and some of the details especially when he mentioned he did not have an AKO email address; at that time all Army people were supposed to have one. He was a member of the CAP. A couple weeks later somebody else shared with me that they were suspicious of him so I looked him up on military.com at the time they had a list of people who were actually in the service. He served years ago as an Air Force E4. I reported that. From what I heard he was dismissed from CAP.

On another occasion a high-ranking Coast Guard Auxiliary member War of the SEAL insignia I took a class from him he have kind of an abrasive personality quite a few years later I found out through the media that he was caught as imposter. He seven as an Operational Specialist (then known as radarman) aboard ship in the Navy during Vietnam. He resigned fom CG Auxiliary after being caught.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jan 8 at 2016 1:28 AM

SN Greg Wright — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 01:28:52 -0500

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member I think 1SG Private RallyPoint Member will give you the best response you're going to get, to this. Just my opinion.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 8 at 2016 2:00 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:00:51 -0500

One time while walking through Chicago O'Hare I saw a Sailor in uniform wearing quite a few ribbons that he couldn't possibly rate. I politely asked him how long he had been in the Navy and he said "I just graduated Boot Camp Sir..." I then asked him "In that case, how do you rate an Overseas Service Ribbon and Sea Service Deployment Ribbon (and whatever else he was wearing that he didn't rate)?"
I got a deer in headlights look from him. I then showed him my ID card and identified myself as Petty Officer Miller and suggested that he remove the unauthorized ribbons before somebody a lot less nicer than me saw him.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 8 at 2016 2:10 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 02:10:43 -0500

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member, it is not unusual for those that must live by their wits to try to manipulate people into helping them survive. Lying was the least of his problems.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Jan 8 at 2016 4:40 AM

SrA Matthew Knight — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 04:40:51 -0500

What I saw: Heavy set, older man wearing Marine Corps dress blues. He had only Lance Corporal stripes and the National Defense Service Medal. He looked too old to be a new Lance Corporal but didn't seem like the kind of guy who stayed in for an entire enlistment either. He was wearing the uniform outside of a Wal Mart standing next to the Bell Ringers last month. Now aside from it not seeming right that he was an older man who only made Lance and only had a NDSM I have always been under the impression that Marines aren't allowed to wear their uniforms anywhere and everywhere off post, especially for something like that.

How I handled it: When he said hi to me as I was leaving I said hi back and continued on with my day. Regardless of whether or not it annoys me it isn't my place to do what many of the knuckle heads in SV videos do by going up to people and yelling and cussing them out and threatening them. All that does is makes actual service members seem like assholes to everyone else. That and there has been cases of falsely accusing actual vets as SV. Regs change, people get older and don't always remember how every single little item is placed on a uniform. In fact, at my grandpa's funeral a friend of his family wore his Air Force blues for his funeral. He was missing his U.S. insignia on his collar. He knew he was supposed to have them but wasn't going to worry about something so minor. He was a legitimate SSgt who worked in Fire Protection in the AF and separated honorably yet I have no doubt that their are people out there who would see that and throw a hissy fit at him for it.

Just leave them alone. If they are really faking service to gain benefits then let law enforcement handle it and they will see their day in court.

Response by CPO David Sharp made Jan 8 at 2016 5:51 AM

CPO David Sharp — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 05:51:24 -0500

I have encountered some instances of this even with people who have served. More I wonder what is the motivation to be compelled to create this false universe around oneself? I get angry at first about the deception but then try to figure out what makes a person not feel as part of something or no value to their life. I'm no liberal bent in any way and don't "feel their pain" but I have to wonder about what drives somebody to assume an identity which is not even close to them, try an lead the life of a lie and think eventually they will not be discovered and then look even worse as a person. I know one person who was in the Navy for 3 years, wears a SE Asia Campaign ribbon wit two stars. Do the math, it is impossible to do 3 tours in 3 years as you have to count time in boot camp and A School into the mix. Every liar will eventually give themselves up with a few specific questions and "the words coming out of their mouths".

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 8:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:32:38 -0500

I haven't encountered one. However, if I did, I likely wouldn't do anything. I might initially catch him off guard and bring him a little shame but even that is unlikely. And once I leave he will be back at it again. All it does is put me in a position to look unprofessional and it isn't worth that risk for me. Liars will be liars and if they go to that extent they aren't going to change for the most part.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 8:48 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:48:20 -0500

We've all met phonies....some want something, some just "want".

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 8:51 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 08:51:28 -0500

Personally. I don't really care. There are liars and thieves everywhere, and I have enough of my own problems to worry about. I don't feel the need to confront. I'd call bullshit, but it would end there.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jan 8 at 2016 9:11 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:11:56 -0500

Don't everyone take this post wrong...please read the whole post. I care about stolen valor but stolen valor here to me is secondary in this case. I am tired of Americans living on the street and overcome with hunger. We fight for a nation that is the richest in the world yet we have homeless people that are hungry and cold. To me the hunger need would be more prevalent. If the individual was truly in need, I wouldn't give them any money...I would take them somewhere to eat and feed them and find a place with some clothes if they needed it. That is a true test if someone is hungry and in need or if they just want the money for drugs or alcohol. Feed the physical need and then feed the knowledge and awareness need. If they are hungry, they won't listen to a thing you say.

Now, the stolen valor part. I would discuss with them why they felt the need to use that excuse to get money. Explain to them that countless American heroes died and you, by claiming to be a veteran, are diminishing tier sacrifices. Let them know there are other ways to get help and that to claim to be a veteran could be dangerous and in some cases against the law.

Other cases of stolen valor, like folks in uniform, airports, other places that have a life and are physically taken care of and are just trying to get sympathy or a discount...I probably would approach it with a lot of thrust and very little vector. Same message as above about diminishing others service but in a different delivery. If they don't get it, then I just walk off. They are the ones that have to live with it...not me. Definitely not worth a shouting match or physical altercation.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2016 9:33 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 09:33:53 -0500

There are a few elements here that stick out to me.
To address the direct question, first you need to understand that the homeless individual you encountered likely has several issues, ones that might not be readily apparent. When he was building rapport with you by trying to find "common" ground, he was attempting to get a bigger hand out. No more, no less. Because of his lack of preparedness, potential chemical/mental issues, probable fatigue and health issues, he was not ready to answer basic questions. This should have sent up a flag that perhaps taking him to your ATM while you make the withdrawal was not such a good idea.

Panhandlers are kind of like used car salesmen. They size you up before approaching to figure out which approach will work and which marks are likelier to produce more money. Once engaged, they will persist - trying different approaches until something works. Because you (like many) are kind-hearted and it was the holiday season, you decided to help him out. Chances are good that he was more agitated about leaving his "spot" (homeless folks are often very territorial, and Fremont Street is pretty prime territory) than he was about being confronted. He decided to go back, never expecting to see you again. His survival instincts were kicking in too. There are a lot of predators in Las Vegas.

You actually handled it pretty well, but you were lucky he wasn't more desperate or inebriated. When in public, its usually the best call to not make a scene. If you had it to do over again, I'd suggest going to the ATM first, returning to where the man is at, wishing him a Merry Christmas, and breaking contact.

I've added a link to a scene from "Falling Down" one of my all time favorite movies. The bag he doesn't give the panhandler is full of automatic weapons. If you haven't seen it, I strongly recommend it. The "Whammy Burger" scene is also classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwP2vV6Wm1Y

Falling Down (bum begging for money)

This homeless guy just wont stop asking for money.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 8 at 2016 10:43 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 10:43:57 -0500

I haven't run across any potential case of "stolen valor" I can say with enough confidence to warrant questioning that person. The likelihood of stolen valor would have to be so high, and my confidence that the other person was lying so great, that I would consider questioning them.

Do I have a responsibility to veterans and service members to at least make the inquiry? I don't know. I just know (and many others, myself included have said it before) I would rather let a 1000 fakers go, than falsely accuse just one legitimate service member or veteran-those who present themselves honestly and not exaggerating themselves or their military accomplishments.

Since I haven't had the pleasure yet of being confident enough in my knowledge of All Things Military to justify questioning a potential faker, I don't know for certain what I might say or ask. I think if it happens, I will try to be calm and professional about it. Even if they are lying fraudsters, there's no sense in making myself look worse than them.

Response by SGT Mitch McKinley made Jan 8 at 2016 11:04 AM

SGT Mitch McKinley — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:04:07 -0500

I have had two instances of this. Once was at a Starbucks, with a young sailor home on leave, sharing with his hometown friends how much money he makes as an E-3 and the types of things he was doing. After hearing quite a bit of the conversation, I identified who I was, and asked him to be honest with his buddies and tell them what he really did. His face turned red and he was embarrassed. But he admitted that he was indeed making it up to look cool. I told him to be proud of his actual service rather than making up glorified, false versions.
The second time was in an airport, there was a 1LT in BDUs in line in front of me. Long story short, the more I talked to him, the more I knew something wasn't quite right. I started asking him very general questions that anyone in the Army would know, but he couldn't answer it. Turned out. He was wearing his brothers BDUs in hopes of someone giving up their first class seat for him as he had heard sometimes happens.
I just gave him a few words of advice and went on my way.

Response by SSG Randall P. made Jan 8 at 2016 11:05 AM

SSG Randall P. — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 11:05:49 -0500

First, I only read the question.

I wouldn't go out of my way to record these stolen valor guys and blast them on facebook, youtube, or social media. We're professionals, or were supposed to be. Should I encounter anyone who I believe is wearing our uniforms and they aren't in the service, I would be polite about it. I tire of seeing what veterans are doing to these people, Like a bunch of damn holier than thou attitude pansy's looking to be internet famous.

We all signed the dotted line to protect the civilian population, not berate them because they decided to wear our uniform and get attention for doing it. I don't know about anyone else but I don't need to get recognition for anything I have done by anyone and personally don't feel offended when I see someone wearing my uniform who hasn't served. Would you get angry at a child for wearing it? (BUT SGT PEASLEE A CHILD IS DIFFERENT!) They are still wearing a replica / look alike to it. What we do for one we must do for all.

TL:DR No, I wouldn't go bananas on someone, Yes I may ask a few questions and speak to them like an adult.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 8 at 2016 12:45 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 12:45:23 -0500

I just shake my head and move on, some are not worth responding to. Like the cook that claimed he was sent on "special missions" in Vietnam because the Military recognized him as a stone cold killer.
Dude had issues, not worth getting into a confrontation. No shortage of STUPID out there.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Jan 8 at 2016 2:02 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:02:36 -0500

There is not such thing as Stolen Valor, this is a phrase that was invented by politicians used it to get votes during a time of war, because they knew that we would put our own belief systems into it. I feel pity for those that lie about military service because they do so out of ill mental health.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jan 8 at 2016 3:13 PM

PV2 Glen Lewis — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 15:13:12 -0500

When you're homeless, no shelter to go to, you haven't eaten maybe for days and you're wearing cast-off filthy clothes you'll say just about anything to get a meal. I know because I've been there. Most people take the attitude that you're just too lazy to work and aren't interested in bettering their situation. They don't stop to think that when you have that look about you, the attitude that comes with it you're highly unlikely to be acceptable to apply for a job let alone get hired. When your address is the alley between 1st and 2nd street that's a bit difficult to find a place for on an application and hardly stable enough for an employer to find you to be reliable enough for employment. There are a lot of other factors too extensive to be able to post here but I would encourage you to be proud of yourself for being feeling enough to help the man out even though he lied to you. He obviously felt bad enough about doing it to not avail himself by taking advantage of your understanding I made it out of that life but there are a good many people who don't walk out of that alley they have to call home.. You did a good thing; sleep well in knowing that most people wouldn't have in your place.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Jan 8 at 2016 4:48 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 08 Jan 2016 16:48:36 -0500

If you want to steal valor or look cool, come and see me down in VA Palo Alto. I will be happy to have one of the nurses give you tour of the building that houses the troops who TBI injuries, the likes of which few civilians will ever see, then tell me how cool you think you are. I am humbled everyday I see one of them walking around in therapy. It is a juxtapose position, You feel proud that you work for an institution that can heal these horrendous injuries, and at the same time you think There before the grace of God go I.

It is these men and women who have lost limbs, parts of their mind that they can never get back, and relearning everything in life, except the honor of serving that these people steal from.

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Jan 9 at 2016 8:21 AM

PO1 Rodney Bracey — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 08:21:52 -0500

The last person I encountered of questionable military merit, I showed him my military (retired) ID card and asked him about his uniform. He was wearing old Army BDUs, black boots that had a mirror polish shine and an ascot. He stated he didn't have to answer my questions and told me my ID card was fake. :) So I simply told him he sticks out like a sore thumb, especially in a town in which all the military services are represented and even an old Sailor like myself can tell the difference with uniforms one should and should not be wearing. He just turned and walked away. By the way, this was at the local mall. Instead of making a scene, I just informed mall security and went about my day.

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Jan 9 at 2016 4:15 PM

1SG Jacob Baty — Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:15:31 -0500

I would say you handled that whole thing like a man. Well done.

Response by PO1 Brian Carlson made Jan 15 at 2016 9:57 AM

PO1 Brian Carlson — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 09:57:15 -0500

I would turn the individual over to local law enforcement. Veteran or not, we cannot beat some guy up. Let the cops handle this.

Response by SSgt Rilene Ann made Jan 22 at 2016 6:25 PM

SSgt Rilene Ann — Fri, 22 Jan 2016 18:25:39 -0500

I work with seniors and disabled in housingnprogram and have some with mental issues. One man claims to have been in all militaries, etc and when a newveteran moves in have to discuss his comments. We have made chgs with this man asno longer wearing Vietnam Vet on hats and talk about his service is diminishing but we all mostly redirect the subject when he starts talking. There are mentally ill folks out there that you cant explain it to them and see change but reaction by peers has shown some chg.

Response by SGT Daniel Quigley made Oct 6 at 2016 8:47 PM

SGT Daniel Quigley — Thu, 06 Oct 2016 20:47:21 -0400

I actually posted my VA card and my Brown Military ID that states I am 100% Disabled. Within seconds he left facebook

Response by SSgt Phil Aiken made Dec 5 at 2016 9:58 PM

SSgt Phil Aiken — Mon, 05 Dec 2016 21:58:12 -0500

It used to piss me off, but now I have better things to do than worry about some schmuck that has to lie to give his life meaning. Not worth the air.

Response by CPL Russell Silber made Dec 10 at 2016 3:30 PM

CPL Russell Silber — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 15:30:59 -0500

Look and laugh

Response by CPL Russell Silber made Dec 10 at 2016 3:45 PM

CPL Russell Silber — Sat, 10 Dec 2016 15:45:48 -0500

Vegas scam city Hello McFly

Response by PO1 Rodney Bracey made Dec 15 at 2016 11:54 AM

PO1 Rodney Bracey — Thu, 15 Dec 2016 11:54:30 -0500

What I don't do is act irrationally, pull out my cell phone, record video in portrait mode while chasing and screaming at the possible faker just to upload it to receive LIKES and e-attaboys from people I don't know.

The last time I encountered such a person, I introduced myself, showed the guy my Blue ID card and simply stated, "You should rethink your decision to pose as a member of the military. The next guy may not be so nice."

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Mar 20 at 2017 3:05 PM

SPC David Hannaman — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:05:33 -0400

Last year at one of my son's games there was a guy working the concession stand wearing a "Desert Storm Veteran" hat. Having been in Desert Storm with 7-101st, and knowing that there aren't all that many of us, I attempted to strike up a friendly conversation... "Hey, me too! What unit did you go over there with?" (hoping that maybe we'd shared some experiences that we could talk story about over a beer maybe). His reply? "Uh, I didn't actually go to the Desert, I was just in the Army at the time, never left CONUS."

At the time I didn't really think about it. I was happy to meet someone else who had served, still a member of "the brotherhood", didn't think any less of him for never having left CONUS, but just a little disappointed that we hadn't chewed some of the same ground as I had originally thought.

Looking back though, it does bother me some more. I would have liked to have gone to Airborne school, but I didn't get the chance. That doesn't minimize my service, but I also didn't earn the right to run around with jump wings misrepresenting what I DID do.