SPC Private RallyPoint Member 6959069 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We can pretend it&#39;s not a thing, but we all know from either first hand experience or from stories we&#39;ve heard from others. PCS awards, end of tour, retirement, even achievement and service awards Soldiers have been told to write it themselves or provide their own metrics.<br /><br />Everyone gets told not to be a ribbon hunter, but when it comes time to get an award you have to put some or all of the work in.<br /><br />I can understand leaders not being able to track all of their Soldiers accomplishments and metrics over the course of a deployment or even years at a duty station. That&#39;s a lot to keep track of every day.<br /><br />In addition to seeing the kick backs during the recommendation process, have we created a culture of embellishment and guess work to appease some higher authority just to take care of our people at the end of a tour or for an achievement they rightfully deserve?<br /><br />What do you think we could do to improve the recommendation and tracking process? 2021-05-07T22:06:10-04:00 SPC Private RallyPoint Member 6959069

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>We can pretend it&#39;s not a thing, but we all know from either first hand experience or from stories we&#39;ve heard from others. PCS awards, end of tour, retirement, even achievement and service awards Soldiers have been told to write it themselves or provide their own metrics.<br /><br />Everyone gets told not to be a ribbon hunter, but when it comes time to get an award you have to put some or all of the work in.<br /><br />I can understand leaders not being able to track all of their Soldiers accomplishments and metrics over the course of a deployment or even years at a duty station. That&#39;s a lot to keep track of every day.<br /><br />In addition to seeing the kick backs during the recommendation process, have we created a culture of embellishment and guess work to appease some higher authority just to take care of our people at the end of a tour or for an achievement they rightfully deserve?<br /><br />What do you think we could do to improve the recommendation and tracking process?

2021-05-07T22:06:10-04:00 2021-05-07T22:06:10-04:00 CPT Private RallyPoint Member 6959160

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Those that submit the award recommendation simply have too many other things to track or do. Awards are not an administrative priority. So if you personally want one you better make it as easy as possible for the recommendation to be submitted. If you are given guidance to submit or process an award on your own behalf you better jump on it. <br /><br />When I was deployed, it was a full time position assigned to a WO4 to track awards and their approval . <br />Now, in your defense as a PFC, it&#39;s too much to expect you to actually fill out a DA638 and remotely think it will pass muster the first go around. There is an &quot;art&quot; to it, and each approving authority has a threshold of what level of achievements justify various levels of awards. Those closest to knowing that process are going to be BN staff level and higher. If the system is working correctly the threshold of expectations and narrations will be pushed down to the companies.<br /><br />At the very least at the Jr Soldier level your PSG or squad leader should give you guidance to keep track of various things you accomplish and they should submit that list to someone at the company staff level (or write the DA 638 themselves) with the expectation they know what Battalion wants to see. <br /><br />Anytime I&#39;ve written an award I&#39;ve bent over backwards to write it strong enough to be approved, and with the internet as it is I would have thought my research would have been sufficient, but it never fails something has to be changed in order to jump through the hoops the end approving authority has to meet their standards for a various awards. <br /><br />Should a PFC write their own award. No............. they should be mentored to track their personal accomplishments and start to learn the DA638 process so when they become NCO&#39;s they are ready to participate at the next level of the process.

2021-05-07T23:06:44-04:00 2021-05-07T23:06:44-04:00 MAJ Samuel Weber 6959167

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Regardless of the systems we put in place, it will always come down to leaders doing their jobs. While I appreciate you sympathizing with leaders who have a lot of Soldiers, at the end of the day everyone has a first-line leader, who is only directly responsible for a few Soldiers. Really, how hard is it to know what 4-6 Soldiers have done? Between counseling packets, NCOERs, OERS, how difficult is it to put together four short paragraphs? Even when I was a company commander, I only directly supervised a few Soldiers. My XO, 1SG and four PLs. Even with the PLs, I made the XO draft the awards. And the 1SG oversaw the PL drafts for their PSG. At the end of the day, it’s just leaders being lazy. Amazing how we expect Soldiers to perform on command, but we as leaders can’t be bothered to do our jobs? Just my 2 cents...

2021-05-07T23:10:09-04:00 2021-05-07T23:10:09-04:00 MSG Private RallyPoint Member 6959260

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ah. You touched on a subject that is near and dear and sore to my heart, As you touched on, Leaders are busy with a multitude of things up to and including awards. Now, do I feel that Soldiers should write their own awards? Well, that is not an easy answer. As you mentioned, what if the Recommended Soldier is at a far away location where they are not being directly observed by their command? This can be accomplished by either the Soldier taking all that they have done and send that information to their Leader or the Soldier writing it themselves and sending it to their Leader. This scenario is one of those gray areas. Case in point, I was in KSA for most of my current tour, so I sent all my data of accomplishments to my XO for him and the CDR to write up the 638. <br /><br />BUT....what if that Leader just sucks at writing awards and the Soldier in question is phenomenal at writing them? What then? Obviously, the Leader should be mentored on how to write effective award recommendations. But at the same time, in this case I feel the Soldier should write it up with assistance from others. And, to be honest, I have written my own 638s a time or two.<br /><br />Now, let us come to the area of what award should be recommended. Of course, if the Soldier in question is writing their own, naturally they are going to write themselves the highest award possible (within reason, of course). You could very well see PFCs, SPCs, and SGTs submitting themselves for MSMs all around when in reality their work was not that much of an impact. Those recommendations will not pass muster. Whether it be because their impact did not merit an MSM or that higher commands gave directive that no one below the rank of (for enlisted) SFC will not receive an MSM. Or that only a % of specific awards will be given out. But the other side of that coin could be that the awards are being written up by Leaders but at a recommended level below the actual level of impact. Let us also touch on the window of awards being submitted. In Kuwait, my Command gave guidance that all EOT AAMs had to have 1-2 bullets and be submitted NLT 60 days out from end of tour. ARCOMS had to have 3 bullets and submitted NLT 90 days out. MSMs required all 4 bullet blocks filled and submitted NLT 120 days out. Which, if you look at it, is insane to submit an MSM for an EOT award half way thru the rotation without capturing EVERY BIT of impactable actions on the 638. Now you have Leaders and Soldiers scrambling to figure out how to fill all 4 blocks with enough quantitative and qualitative data after only 4 months of being in theater.<br /><br />Then...after all that is said and done....the 638 is written up and submitted....it all boils down to the approving chain and approving authority as to what award you finally get based on their interpretation of the 638.<br /><br />As for what can be done to improve the process? I&#39;m not really sure. We could always have a massive OPD/NCOPD where we beat people over the head until they grasp the concept that its the level of impact on the mission and not soley their rank that should determine their EOT award. We could bypass eLAS and hand carry all 638s around to the intermediate and approving authorities and sit down with them face to face to state the case and get their signatures in person. Or, we could simply carry on the way we are, watching deserving Soldiers get ripped out of the award they deserve, where rank is the sole basis of an award and where Leaders still don&#39;t know how to write an effective recommendation.

2021-05-08T01:01:46-04:00 2021-05-08T01:01:46-04:00 LTC John Griscom 6959688

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I was told if I didn&#39;t write it, there won&#39;t be one.

2021-05-08T08:13:51-04:00 2021-05-08T08:13:51-04:00 MAJ Private RallyPoint Member 6959797

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think they need to make the process for writing awards easier. It takes a long time to write an award by the time you gather all the information required. This is probably past of the reason why many soldiers end up writing it on their own and then command polishing it and signing it and moving up the chain. I don’t really see much difference in writing one’s own award write up and their own OER support form. You are stating what you did and why you think it matters and then the higher up in the chain reviewing it, asking for corrections, and then signing off on it. <br /><br />The military is like any other job in this respect. If you want the accolades often times you have to sell yourself for it to be acknowledged. Just my humble opinion.

2021-05-08T08:55:26-04:00 2021-05-08T08:55:26-04:00 MAJ Roland McDonald 6960182

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ok going to toss in my 2 cents worth. All action has some value, either negative or positive. Which in turn creates learning. At basic we learn what to do and how to do it better or we learn what not to do. Learning is basically doing, then either repeating it to master it or what to never do again. Examples are learning to walk by falling down and repeating till we somewhat master it. The negative example would be a kid putting their hand on a burner that has just been turned off to see if it was still hot only to confirm it’s still hot and never doing that again. Having that, why not look at having the person write their own recommendation. The leader will learn if the person has good writing skills and language usage or not. Thus identifying need for further training, i.e. a college writing class. Either way we are training. Learning should never stop. Learning only makes us all better. And if the solider later on in their career needs to submit one for of their soldiers or write an evaluation they will have the skill set. Always train up to the next level. Thus when leaders fall in combat the subordinates are ready to step up.

2021-05-08T13:08:09-04:00 2021-05-08T13:08:09-04:00 LTC Jason Mackay 6960354

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Providing a narrative of accomplishments for a retirement award (last ten years) for a recommender that has known you 12-18 months is acceptable. <br /><br />Writing a PCS award where the Rater had two NCOER/OER support forms and daily contact is unacceptable.

2021-05-08T14:29:12-04:00 2021-05-08T14:29:12-04:00 MSgt Gilbert Jones 6960382

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>During my 22 years of service between TSgt/MSgt I was asked twice to right either my performan report and or awards. My response each time was if you thought I did a great job then as my supervisor you should write them. If you want me to write some things that I did extra or off duty I have no problem doing them. As a result I missed out on receiving two awards. As a supervisor, I never asked any of my people that I supervised to write their performance or awards.<br /><br />I always felt that a supervisor who doesn&#39;t want to write, are either lazy or bad writers. In that case they should seek help - but not from the person receiving the report/award.

2021-05-08T14:58:16-04:00 2021-05-08T14:58:16-04:00 CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member 6960520

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Lazy leadership delegates something like this. Defeats the purpose.

2021-05-08T16:41:52-04:00 2021-05-08T16:41:52-04:00 SSgt Christophe Murphy 6960673

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Almost every award I received I was put in the driver seat at some point to help push it along. Just as with my fitness reports. Having folks write up the preliminary write up isn&#39;t as ridiculous or out of the norm as some people make out when they complain when they are asked to do their write up. This has a functional purpose. Writing awards and fitreps is a learned skill and this is how you encourage people to learn this skill. It also helps people learn how to look at things with an unbiased opinion. The paperwork is routed up for notes and adjustments. It will generally get tweaked down the road but the point is to allow for practice. We all hear people complain that folks in their chain of command don&#39;t know how the process works pr they can&#39;t do good writeups. Having people write their own not only gives them a sense of ownership of their careers but it also allows them to hone their skills in real-time that will benefit them as they rank up.

2021-05-08T17:55:50-04:00 2021-05-08T17:55:50-04:00 SFC Gary (Bigsarge) Portier USARMY RET. 6961792

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Same when writing your Own NCOER, I always feel that if my Seniors wouldn&#39;t write them they weren&#39;t worth the paper they were written on. IJS

2021-05-09T08:32:13-04:00 2021-05-09T08:32:13-04:00 SSG Private RallyPoint Member 6965051

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Our awards system is nearly beyond repair. If you focus on the main awards here, individual awards (not joint or other branch), it is a very interesting discussion, as there are many awards....but very few at the same time.<br /><br />Army Achievement Medal<br />Army Commendation Medal<br />Air Medal<br />Meritorious Service Medal<br />Bronze Star Medal<br />Purple Heart<br />Soldiers Medal<br />Distinguished Flying Cross<br />Legion of Merit<br />Silver Star<br />Distinguished Service Medal<br />Distinguished Service Cross<br />Medal of Honor<br /><br />If you remove the Valor only awards, and the Purple Heart....your list shrinks quite a bit.<br /><br />Army Achievement Medal<br />Army Commendation Medal<br />Air Medal<br />Meritorious Service Medal<br />Bronze Star Medal<br />Soldiers Medal<br />Distinguished Flying Cross<br />Legion of Merit<br />Distinguished Service Medal<br /><br />Once again, shrink the list for Heroism and combat zone requirements, and you are looking at 7 awards.<br /><br />Army Achievement Medal<br />Army Commendation Medal<br />Air Medal<br />Meritorious Service Medal<br />Distinguished Flying Cross<br />Legion of Merit<br />Distinguished Service Medal<br /><br />2 of which require you be involved in aviation, bringing your list down to 5.<br /><br />Army Achievement Medal<br />Army Commendation Medal<br />Meritorious Service Medal<br />Legion of Merit<br />Distinguished Service Medal<br /><br />Lets pretend for a minute when a Flag Officer retires, their level of responsibility or influence warrants the highest award, the Distinguished Service Medal. When a BDE/BN CDR/CSM (O6/O5/E9) retires, they warrant a LoM. When a Company CDR/1SG (O3/E8) retires, they warrant an MSM. Everyone below those ranks gets an ARCOM or AAM? So in essence an E3 after 3 years of service will be getting the same award as an E7 at 20?<br /><br />The system is a mess, and I blame a lot of it on giving out too many ARCOMs, and not enough coins. I have seen SO MANY awards given, when a coin was perfectly appropriate. It is hard to justify an ARCOM to a PCSing PSG, when his junior enlisted E3 got one for winning a BDE Soldier of the Month board.

2021-05-10T16:19:14-04:00 2021-05-10T16:19:14-04:00 CW3 Private RallyPoint Member 6968437

<div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I think it&#39;s certainly reasonable to write your own award for awards that really in 2021 the &quot;computer&quot; should automatically be able to generate such as time in service awards. But that is less writing an award and more filling in admin data.<br />As for awards that require actual writing I think its ok when someone sees that your more or less due an award for a common scenario, PCS for instance, but they don&#39;t have time to write it. I was a PL for three years and told to write the draft myself which mostly read like a &quot;best of&quot; my OER bullets for those years. I didn&#39;t mind doing the leg work and my recommender would have probably also referenced my OERs for such an award.

2021-05-11T19:35:02-04:00 2021-05-11T19:35:02-04:00 2021-05-07T22:06:10-04:00