How do you feel about an expert armor badge? Its similiar to EIB but with higher skill level due to technical nature

2014-12-06T18:24:27-05:00

http://ciar.org/ttk/mbt/armor/armor-magazine/armor-mag.2001.ma/2EAB01.pdf

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-12-08T11:40:24-05:00

They already have the Spur Ride, and get to wear a Stetson, along with those spurs. Surely that is enough. Not that I have a dog in the fight.

I don't have any problem with any MOS having an expert skill badge. If you want to be an expert Paint and Chip Seaman in the Navy, more power to you. My brother started his career in the Air Force. He would play cards until the planes landed, then hook up a tester and swap out whatever board the tester said needed to be swapped. Expert Board Swapper?

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 8 at 2014 11:38 AM

2014-12-08T11:38:45-05:00

At some point, it becomes everyone gets a badge.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 8 at 2014 11:46 AM

2014-12-08T11:46:24-05:00

There are a number of unofficial ones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unofficial_badges_of_the_United_States_military

Unofficial badges of the United States military - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unofficial badges of the United States military are those badges or emblems which do not appear in United States military regulations but are worn or displayed by many individuals serving in the United States military. Unofficial badges may also be bestowed for a one time action or be authorized under the authority of a local commander.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Dec 8 at 2014 12:28 PM

2014-12-08T12:28:45-05:00

Please don't take this wrong, Armor does great and wonderful things and I am sure that it takes many skills to ride around in a tank, but does it really merit a badge?
It is like giving a clerk typist an award if they can type over 80 words a minute.
The reason that the Infantry get an EIB is because the testing is both extremely mentally and physically grueling. It is a stress test that also requires you to be able to preform certain skills to exacting standards, while under extreme mental and physical stress. Have I stressed the idea of stress enough? Many try to earn it and only a very few actually do. Any skill badge that was about operating a equipment would be, just decoration for your uniform, or for the promotion points. As for the CIB (combat version) that is something you get for putting your first person ass out there to get shot off. I know that it occasionally happens that an Abrams tank gets damaged and people inside it can get injured, but they have several tonnes of armor protecting their "first person ass" from getting shot off. Hardly worth an award unless they actually do earn a Purple Heart.
Just my two cents from an Infantry perspective.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Dec 8 at 2014 12:38 PM

2014-12-08T12:38:19-05:00

SPC Richard White, just a simple NO from me!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 9:02 PM

2014-12-08T21:02:01-05:00

Before my usual rant about badge and uniform accoutrement proliferation, I think this is an idea with some merit. Breaking track, gunnery tables, and other aspects of operating an armored vehicle system could well be made into an EIB-like event that would build professional pride.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 1:19 AM

2014-12-09T01:19:17-05:00

There have been some really good responses to this topic, and most are along the same lines as I think. I am also an 11 series that has earned both the CIB, as well as the EIB, they both have significant meaning to me and symbolize two different events within my career. By making a badge for everyone and everything, it slowly devalues the meaning of the items that are time-honored within specific branches of the combat arms. If you remember back in 2001, the army adopted the black beret that prior to that was a significant piece of the Ranger Regiment's history. This happened again with the creation of another badge replicating the Combat Infantryman Badge, the Combat Action Badge. What started as a good idea as a way to recognize troops that are not 11 series performing the same role in combat, turned into a "Oh boy, I was within 500 meters of an IED strike, I'm getting a badge!" and ran rampantly out of control within some units. Unfortunately I believe that the original post and question is one that should be condemned to the "Good Idea Fairy" file and destroyed ASAP.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Dec 9 at 2014 10:48 AM

2014-12-09T10:48:06-05:00

Well let's see if I can stir up a whole lotta crap with my response, being that I am one of the senior SMEs from the Armor Branch. 1) Yes their should be an EIA Badge as well as a CTB(Combat Tanker Badge). I have earned my Spurs both through combat operations against the enemy in '03 and during my Spur Ride in '92 while assigned to the 11th ACR in Fulda, Germany. While a great accomplishment to me and my fellow Spur Brothers, it is not an officially recognized award that is placed upon ones ERB. And before anyone from the 11 Series community chimes in about grueling this, that or the other, a timed 26K ruckmarch with 9 test stations along that ruckmarch in and around Fulda, Germany was plenty grueling.
2) Combat operations in 2 of our last 3 major conflicts; DS/DS, OEF & OIF, were MOSTLY mounted fights and many of those awarded CIBs rode into these fights in the back of BFVs, M113s or on the back of trucks. They did not slog on foot for years on end like they had to in WWII, Korea and Vietnam, where the hardships of the Infantryman were so much more than in any other MOS.
3) SSG Timothy Thomas, the black beret, prior to being "given" to the Rangers in 1979, was worn by Armor and Cav units of the US Army, as it has been by tankers in almost all of the world's armies since WWI.
4) Mastering the tank and the different responsibilities inherent with being a member of a tank crew takes a great deal of technical knowledge that mostly comes through experience, just as mastering the technical aspects of being an Infantryman requires, so why is there not a means of recognizing this mastery that is officially recognized and rewarded?
I have nothing but respect and luv for my Infantry brethren, but I do not to this day, after having served a 26-year career as a tanker, understand why there is such vitriol and all out branch hatred towards the creation and awarding of either an EIA badge and a CTB. The powers that be, a long time before most of us were born and definitely before almost all of us served, created the CIB as a means of recognizing the particular hardships inherent in the lives of the combat Infantryman during WWII and rightly so, however since the end of the Vietnam War, unless one is strictly a "light" Infantryman that is no longer the case. 11 series already have the inherent right to be the only branch authorized to wear a colored disc behind their branch insignia as well as their beloved blue cord and I hold no animosity toward them for that. However when it comes to the creation and awarding of an EIA/CTB, I feel that "Big" Army, to this day gets it wrong.

"TREAT 'EM ROUGH!!"

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 11:45 AM

2014-12-09T11:45:40-05:00

Honestly I think it's a good idea. Although it is highly unlikely, we should have something that separates each combat branch of their own. Not just a CAB that anybody can get. Like some four stars I've seen which I still don't know how that happens. I guess a bomb exploded in the same country or something. It would be pretty cool to have a sabre surrounded by a wreath. That would be bad ass.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 9 at 2014 1:46 PM

2014-12-09T13:46:52-05:00

And hers is your sign

Response by SSG(P) Matthew Bisbee made Dec 10 at 2014 1:26 AM

2014-12-10T01:26:39-05:00

I have served in Air Cavalry, mechanized infantry, light infantry, and aviation units. I earned the CIB in OEF as an infantry ETT out in the field with the ANA. I also earned the Aircraft Crewmember Badge at the basic and senior level and basic parachutist badge. From my experience in Afghanistan, every reservist or national guards soldier deployed to Afghanistan received at least six ribbons or medals just for showing up. Don't believe me, lets count:
1. Army Overseas Ribbon
2. Armed Forces Reserve Medal w/ M device
3. Army Good Conduct Medal (if they haven't already earned one)
4. Global War on Terror Service Medal
5. Afghanistan Service Medal
6. NATO (non-article 5) Medal (ISAF)
7. National Defense Service Medal
8. Any end-of-tour medals or valor medals
9. CIB or CAB?
When a PFC with two years in and one deployment ends up looking like CSM with 30 years in, this is a sign that the US military awards system has become too bloated with medals, ribbons, and badges.

Do I think there should be expert badges for other branches? Maybe, as long as the tests to earn them include the same rigorous combat related tasks that the EIB and EFMB require. This would reflect the reality that most every soldier, no matter what MOS, must be prepared to fight, survive, and perform their job in a combat environment. As we have seen in recent history, soldiers from supply to transportation to civil affairs...have found themselves in similar situations as combat arms soldiers. If there is going to be an expert badge for other branches, make it as challenging to get as the existing expert badges.

Serious consideration needs to be made before adding anymore badges or medals.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 6:30 PM

2014-12-25T18:30:10-05:00

As a former scout, I think it's just people crying because they have no badge like the EIB/EFMB. Non-infantry types 'cried' cause they had no badge like the CIB/CFMB.............now we have the CAB. I think if one wants to earn a badge similar to the EIB/EFMB/CFMB/CIB they need to en-list or re-class into the infantry or medical career fields. If they don't want to do that then shut the hell up about not having bling on your chest.

If the infantry/medic field is not your style then drop a DA4187 for airborne or air assault school and earn your wings.

I admit, they look nice. But f***! Don't we have enough badges already? You can only wear a max of five (5) on your ACU's. But I guess some Soldier will cry that we need a sash like the Boy Scouts have so we can display all our neat little badges for all the world to see while we're in uniform.

Is it an ego thing with people? Do Soldiers feel like a turd because they don't have a shiny badge on their uniform to say 'look at me. look at what I done'?

I have a CAB and air assault wings. But I don't wear them often outside my DA photo as I feel like clothes don't make the man.

Response by SPC Tracey Bovee made Apr 11 at 2015 1:47 PM

2015-04-11T13:47:30-04:00

I like it. Definitely fit for a badge

Response by SP6 Robert Favela made Jun 20 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-06-20T09:09:21-04:00

Yes there should be in armor Crewman badge!! We're not infantry and should have the recognition for the JOB our professional abilities just like any of the other jobs in the military. . I didn't wear spurs I wasn't allowed a stetson only TANKER BOOTS and they didn't want us to wear them !!!!! I AM TRUE ARMOR TO THE CORE !!!!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-09-01T15:49:27-04:00

I know this is an old post but I have to ask a question. The EIB is a skill level 1 badge. What skill level are you suggesting this expert armor badge be if there is no higher skill level than a skill level 1 badge?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 12 at 2015 7:40 PM

2015-09-12T19:40:54-04:00

We already got the Driver-T badge, and there is also the "Tank Weapons" hanger on the Marksmanship badge. Class A wear but oh well.

Personally the less stuff I had on my BDU's or coveralls the better. One less thing to get hung up or metal thing conduct electricity. Hang the dog tags at your station too. No rings either.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2016 8:52 AM

2016-06-25T08:52:20-04:00

You mean Master Gunner?

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 17 at 2018 12:40 AM

2018-06-17T00:40:49-04:00

Clank,Clank- nope I'm not a Tank/target.