How do you enforce standards on Soldiers not yours?

2014-04-09T22:56:33-04:00

I have an E-5 in my office who is in a different section who refuses to adhere to the new grooming standards. We as a staff talked about the new upcoming changes and they stated oh well I will have to do this differently. They did not and I pointed it out the day it was effective. They blew it off and told me so. I have talked to them in front of the senior NCO who is "all about standards" and their supervisor who is a CW2. Nobody is willing to tell them to listen and adhere to the standard. They are not my Soldier in my company nor in my section. What are your recommendations to get this NCO to adhere to the standards and set the RIGHT standard to their Soldiers (as we know they are always watching us).

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 11:11 PM

2014-04-09T23:11:50-04:00

According to ALARACT 082/2014 all SMs are required to adhere to the new grooming standards set forth in AR 670-1 no later than 7 days of it being published, which passed a few days ago. Paragraph 3-2 (Hair and fingernail standards and grooming policies) is listed as punitive with regard to Soldiers. If you have tried all other options, I have a hard time believing the Soldier's CSM, or if there isn't one the senior enlisted leader, would be unwilling to enforce the standard or address this apparent insubordination to a commissioned officer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 1:48 AM

2014-04-10T01:48:44-04:00

As a commissioned Officer you could counsel the individual, they don't have to belong to you, under general military authority you made a correction on that Soldier. He was aware that you were a commissioned Officer at the time of the correction and by refusing to adhere to your direct order, that Soldier is in violation of Art 92, UCMJ. You can recommend through the Company Commander that the Soldier receive an article 15. There would be two charges, failing to follow your order and failing to follow the regulation.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 2:02 AM

2014-04-10T02:02:02-04:00

UCMJ that ass!!! I work in a S2 shop and work with a CPT and a SSG. I respect both of them very much. Commissioned or not. Rock Paper Rank (like rock paper scissors) IS what I've always went by. I get told to do push ups by other NCOs in staff sections for random stuff (shits and giggles no harm intended). My CPT has even told me to do push ups before lol. Now my old PSG and CPT used to bump heads all the time about rank. When I was a soldier all I cared about was getting off work and my CPT would tell me to go home and my PSG was like sir you don't have the authority to do that he's my soldier but the CPT would be like yeah but he works for me.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 2:13 AM

2014-04-10T02:13:22-04:00

Write it down on a counseling. If a verbal didn't work the first time. You don't have to be a commander to do so. Second if he fails the verbal and written counseling then go to the CSM or 1SG. Hope that straightens him out! I would also counsel the two leaders in his section. I did it as a BN S3. The S2 oic and two junior enlisted were failing to meet the standard. As soon as the csm and XO saw, things changed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 2:14 AM

2014-04-10T02:14:17-04:00

Sir,

I would recommend pulling their Senior NCO aside and asking him why he's allowing disrespect and disregard to the regulations happen in front of him. I would then present a counseling regarding the deficiency and formulate a plan of action where not only does said NCO fix their deficiency but they will then teach their peers using the distributed slides, maybe even use the CAPE presentation.

If they fail the plan of action, recommend for a summarized. Unfortunately some won't learn until they realize we mean business.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2014 8:22 AM

2014-04-10T08:22:31-04:00

CPT Maurelli,

Since the CW2 failed to get his section under control to meet basic Army standards, I would speak to him (as you have) and if it continued, I would counsel him and no one else. This should immediately trigger the CW2 to counsel (verbal or written) his senior NCO to enforce the standards. This particular situation should not have to go any higher. Please let me know how it turns out for you when time permits. Thank you for sharing your post.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 10 at 2014 10:45 AM

2014-04-10T10:45:50-04:00

When that sort of thing happens around me, I grab an NCO to take care of it.  My NCOs don't like it when I revert back to SFC Kantor and gig folks on their 670-1 violations.  Of course, I could counsel them and make sure it is taken care of, but that's not really my role in the organization... not anymore.<br>

Response by LTC John Czarnecki made Aug 21 at 2014 10:13 AM

2014-08-21T10:13:03-04:00

Easy. Lock them up, address the problem, counsel as to the standard, send them on their way, notify their CoC of the counseling session.

Anything less is a disservice to both yourself and the soldier, not to mention the Army as a whole.

Don't accept slovenliness or slipshod work... EVER.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 25 at 2014 3:14 AM

2014-09-25T03:14:37-04:00

You are a calmer man than me LTC Private RallyPoint Member. I would have had laser beams shooting out of me eyes and a epic Gunnery Sergeant Hartman rant that would have left him shaking. Standards are standards and do not apply to various sections. I pray there is an NCO at the ready to do your light work for you. Someone needs a reality check and some extra duty after they get their stripes ripped off. The CSM's lawn could always use another standard sized fightig position complete with overhead cover. I'm tired of hearing about soldiers disrespecting Officers. WHY AM I RETIRED!!!!!?????!!!!!

Response by MSG Ronnie Snider made Sep 10 at 2015 9:49 AM

2015-09-10T09:49:09-04:00

If they/you have a uniform on, they are your soldiers 24/7.

Response by SMSgt John Clifford made Sep 10 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-09-10T21:52:15-04:00

Mm...you are an officer, he is enlisted. Problem solved. Give him a direct order and if he doesn't comply bring him up on charges. Problem solved. Oh, and in case you didn't know you don't have to be in his chain of command when it comes to giving orders about standards.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 11 at 2015 11:57 AM

2015-09-11T11:57:19-04:00

Do you know his 1SG or Commander?

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 11 at 2015 7:02 PM

2015-09-11T19:02:46-04:00

Your a Captain in the United States Army---He's a Sergeant---What's the problem????If he want to be a hard ass---do you have a boxing ring????? I was a 52 year old 1st Sergeant and got into the ring with a 19 year old private. I don't recommend this to everyone as a problem solver---but it felt good to beat the shit out of the little bastard. Needless to say, I didn't have a problem with anyone for a long time.