How do you deal with a "true believer"?

2016-02-18T14:40:31-05:00

There you are having a polite conversation about important issues when a "true believer" interrupts with ideological dogma. You attempt to respond politely but they insist on shouting. More often than not, they are not responding to anything anybody has commented. More often than not, anything you say offends them. You can invite them to start a conversation of their own, but it's too important to them to ruin yours. What to do? What to do?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 2:43 PM

2016-02-18T14:43:36-05:00

I normally just ignore them.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 2:44 PM

2016-02-18T14:44:10-05:00

Just continue and beat the dead horse, some people take more time than others to understand things. Just think how long we believed the earth was actually flat and how many people knew the right answer without getting traction from some of the right people.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Feb 18 at 2016 2:47 PM

2016-02-18T14:47:29-05:00

Is a punch in the face OK?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 2:48 PM

2016-02-18T14:48:04-05:00

If can be so hard to ignore them, though. When I hear a true believer, my first instinct is to show them the evidence. But nothing is ever good enough, they either move the goal post back or they deny any evidence with some form of the "that's what ______ wants you to believe." I honestly think they have a legitimate mental illness.

Response by SSG James Arlington made Feb 18 at 2016 2:55 PM

2016-02-18T14:55:30-05:00

Sounds like my brother. I have to ignore his rants or I'd go nuts too! :0)

Response by SSgt Christopher Brose made Feb 18 at 2016 2:55 PM

2016-02-18T14:55:47-05:00

In my experience, they don't insist on shouting. Instead, they resort to ridicule and character assassination -- which is amusing when they don't have the brainpower to actually pull it off.

All people have their own set of personal beliefs, and usually they have accompanying blind spots. One of the marks of character is how people respond when their blind spots are pointed out to them.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 18 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-02-18T14:57:04-05:00

CPT Jack Durish Vote, with your feet! They are just as happy expounding to the atmosphere.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Feb 18 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-02-18T14:57:32-05:00

I try once, softly. If they respond even a little rationally, I might try to explain further to see if they're open to reason. If no response but shouting after two tries, I sign off.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 18 at 2016 2:57 PM

2016-02-18T14:57:53-05:00

"What would it take to make you change your stance on this?"

Have them provide the evidence they require, then provide the evidence. If they say they are unwilling to change their stance regardless of ANY evidence, it's an impasse and a waste of both people's time. Disengage on topic.

I'm an %$#% but if confronted with actual evidence, I'll change my stance. I've modified my opinions regarding various topic based on new data. It may be a nuanced difference, but it's a change of stance. Someone who is unwilling to cede ground is not worth having an intellectual conversation with. They might be worth learning from however.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Feb 18 at 2016 3:03 PM

2016-02-18T15:03:47-05:00

Smile and nod.

Response by A1C Melissa Jackson made Feb 18 at 2016 3:04 PM

2016-02-18T15:04:16-05:00

Laugh.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 3:06 PM

2016-02-18T15:06:37-05:00

Depends. Are you talking about religious True Believers or atheist True Believers? What takes a less logical mind to believe? That the universe was created by an all powerful cloud giant or that the universe is a vast improbable chaos which emerged from nothing...instantaneously? While I don't espouse either, at least the first provides a causality. Despite the scientific requirement for causality, science cannot provide it; nor does it postulate an alternative. Frankly both sides can be annoying if they are staunch in their beliefs.

Response by SFC Justin Scott made Feb 18 at 2016 3:07 PM

2016-02-18T15:07:16-05:00

If you figure out how to get through to that type of person you could easily become a billionaire!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 3:22 PM

2016-02-18T15:22:00-05:00

CPT Jack Durish Generally they will direct the conversation off topic, I try to bring it back to the topic of the posted discussion, I will ask for evidence or if they have something of substance to contribute besides whatever comment they made.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Feb 18 at 2016 3:29 PM

2016-02-18T15:29:40-05:00

You call them True believers, I call them Energy Vampires, there to suck the energy of other with their drama. I lived a few blocks from Jim Jones church saw the same tactics.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-02-18T15:41:21-05:00

True believers cannot be content with the facts, they have to continue trying to convince the world of their twisted logic.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Feb 18 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-02-18T15:58:55-05:00

Maintain your bearing and professionalism and inform the person you're talking to that you'll get back to them and further your discussion at another time. Can't really say let them find out what the five fingers said to the face. Then your convo will be with a cop and judge. Not helping you any. Just walk away until you can talk in peace.

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Feb 18 at 2016 4:06 PM

2016-02-18T16:06:13-05:00

Tell them to butt out.

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Feb 18 at 2016 4:18 PM

2016-02-18T16:18:33-05:00

CPT Jack Durish Much like a CBR attack, the key is to decontaminate quickly before the stupid seeps through your clothing and is absorbed by osmosis through the skin. I try to move away quickly to avoid the individual. Why? Because one you cannot reason with the person no matter how much factual information you have to support your position, two they are likely to respond with something that brings the brain to a screeching halt, and three when they see that they are not going to convince you that they are right, they usually digress to some sort of a derogatory remark that makes you want neuter them with sledgehammer.

Response by SPC Andrew Griffin made Feb 18 at 2016 4:31 PM

2016-02-18T16:31:49-05:00

What is the definition of a "TRUE BELIEVER"?

Response by MAJ Anne McGee made Feb 18 at 2016 4:56 PM

2016-02-18T16:56:26-05:00

Find something they are interested in on a personal level and steer clear of the dogmatic topics. This will at least quell the arguing until you can extricate yourself from the situation. People like that are only truly happy with their like minded friends. I am a conservative and it's interesting and sometimes funny to see liberals get worked up over their debunked talking points. With my liberal friends I try to stay away from politics if I want to keep them as friends and so we stay in our common ground zone - sports, music, family, food, drink and religion but only if they want to go there, lol! :-)

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 18 at 2016 5:04 PM

2016-02-18T17:04:57-05:00

Religion is the worst offender. Some atheists can be pretty militant, but none (at least in this country) has ever tried to take away the right of believers to believe or to force anyone who is not an atheist to do something their religion forbids them to do.

No atheist has tried to force a Catholic to have an abortion or to force a Jew to eat pork.

Religious believers, on the other hand, have often tried to impose the rules of their religion on those who don't necessarily share it.

Response by SSG Gerhard S. made Feb 18 at 2016 10:03 PM

2016-02-18T22:03:55-05:00

I try to present them with the basic facts.... but, predictably, they don't listen.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Feb 19 at 2016 1:22 AM

2016-02-19T01:22:42-05:00

I think it comes down to what the debate is about in the first place as far as to how the 'believers' will respond.

For example, often times from what I have seen in arguments between Christians and Atheists it is the Christians who are usually the more mature and peaceful of the two debaters. Generally most true Christians (I say true Christians for a reason here) are more than willing to sit down and have a decent civilized conversation with those of opposing beliefs and hear out the unbelievers opinions and evidence. It's often times the unbeliever who starts to become irate and antagonistic because the evidence that most believers present is dismissed as nothing more than coincidence by most atheists so they start to get a superiority complex and show it. Now I am not saying this is the case with all Atheist/Christian debates but it's what I usually come across

Now if the argument is between flat Earthers and round Earthers then I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea how anyone can believe the Earth is flat in modern day times but I also think the flat Earth movement is just a bunch of trolls trying to mess with people.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Feb 19 at 2016 4:07 AM

2016-02-19T04:07:09-05:00

In real life, I usually just walk away. No point in dealing with one way conversations on both ends.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2016 7:30 AM

2016-02-19T07:30:55-05:00

I disagree. This cartoon is painting ALL true believer is not based on truth, if you branded as true believer you are branded as "MINDLESS and WILL NOT LISTEN". I am a true believer of the constitution, and my faith. I can counter and explain ALL argument that throw toward me. So am I "LALALALAL"ing and run away too?

I would said this, when one use emotion to defend one's stand. like the cartoon, or a lot of the Trump's supporters out there. They are really not believing in anything, they just controlled by their emotion.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 19 at 2016 10:07 AM

2016-02-19T10:07:12-05:00

I think a lot of people are not so much 'true believers' as being motivated by ulterior motive. For example, I choose to believe in God, the Bible and a Protestant "version" of Christianity...but not because any of the above re-enforces a secret "need" to have "all the answers", prop up a superiority of certain cultural/ethnic traditions, or because all of "we'uns" think that way.

In much the same vein, I find that SOME opponents I meet in debate are not so much motivated by rational doubt, as they are a personal slight, or "grudge". If one views a point of view as being part of forces that personally insulted, molested or deprived them...it makes sense that one might find it difficult to debate their validity "rationally".

This is one reason I try to think through the other person's experiences before denigrating their beliefs...or lack thereof. If there is validity and truth in what I believe...I would expect that both the means and the goal is to share truth...not shout over the opposition.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Feb 22 at 2016 12:57 PM

2016-02-22T12:57:39-05:00

Once the shouting starts, no one is changing their mind. At the end of the day, some people will just not be swayed, no matter how logical the argument.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Nov 29 at 2024 8:53 PM

2024-11-29T20:53:13-05:00

LMAO ~~ When I Have To Deal With Individuals Such As Those, And Getting No-Where,
Then I Just Have Fun With Them ~ It's The Ole "Ask A Stupid Question ~ Get A Stupid Reply".
Little By Little ~ While Occasionally, Immediately; I'd Piss'em Off. What The Hell, Why Not?
I Learned Decades Ago ~"If Ya Can't Convince'em' ~ Confuse'em" ~~ And Sometimes I'd Respond In Spanish, Which Really Get's-'m Going ~ Even When I've Not Been Sarcastic, Because FEW Know What I've Said And BTW, I Get Into A Lot Of Trouble From Our RP Narrators Because Of My Antics & "Not So Nice" Replies. So Lately I've Been Trying To Back-Off ~~ But It Sure Ruins, What Could Have Been An Evening Filled With Fun ~~ SPAM Phone Calls Are My Favorite ~ I Kept One Guy On The Phone For 34 Minutes ~ He Was Offering A Low Cost Loan To Pay Off My Credit Cards ~ Which Really Amounts To Sending THEM The Payments & They'd Negotiate Better Rates ~ But Actually Just Kept The Money. ~ I Convinced Him I Had A $45,000 American Express Debt Through The Okinawa Bank & Trust, In Okinawa Japan...The Rest Was a Piece Of Cake Until I Finally Said - "You Sure Are A Stupid Sumbich; I'm Scamming You, Ya Fkin Idiot". And Hang-Up The Phone ~~ "...And She Had Fun Fun Fun 'Till Daddy Took Her T-Bird Away...."

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Nov 29 at 2024 9:02 PM

2024-11-29T21:02:37-05:00

If It's Regarding Religion, I Ask Them A Few Questions ~~ Then I Correct Them.
Because Very Few Individuals Live The Lives They Preach.. So I Just Point Out The Flaws In
Their Bull Sh*t Statements ~~ I've Known Many Of Those Types, As I'm Sure Others Also Have;"Do As I SAY ~ Not As I DO" ~ And I DO Get Blocked From Posting Other Replies ~ A Lot!...
I Love The Ones Telling About All The Love And Being Forgiven For Their Sins. ~~ They Tend To Forget What Goes Along With Their God's Forgiveness, The Part They Avoid Mentioning ~ "Repenting"...
aka: "Knock Off The Crap"

Response by SGT James Murphy made Nov 30 at 2024 3:54 PM

2024-11-30T15:54:12-05:00

Hey Jack, Now Let's do the Hollow Earth Theory!

Response by SFC Kevin Childers made Nov 30 at 2024 5:29 PM

2024-11-30T17:29:03-05:00

It depends on what they're a true believer in.

In some cases I salute, take two steps back, about-face, and leave the area as reality striking them may cause a catastrophic failure in their belief system and the causality radius for the implosion could exceed the minimum safe distance I am currently at.