How do you balance time off for training in the NG / Reserves?

2015-09-17T15:59:06-04:00

In the past few months I've been volunteering for more training opportunities (1-2 days) here & to benefit my career in the Army (UMO Training, Running Ranges, BFT Training, Convoy Ops ect) . Just to set the stage for you all: I work a full-time job at a reputable company (MITRE CORPORATION) who works very closely with AD / Reserve components from all Branches. However there are few people here in the organization that are current SM in the Reserve or Guard.

A family member who has worked here for 35+ years mentioned to me that they thought I was taking too much time off. Of course they mentioned this after I gave advance notice that I would be absent from work for 4 months to go to BOLC in April!

Does anyone have any advice on the work / reserve / life balance that they had to achieve while they were / are in? My family members point runs along the same "Perception is reality" thought; that many & most people are not exposed to SM of the R / NG in the workplace & that they may just think that I'm taking too much time off or that my priorities are mixed up.

Thoughts?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 4:40 PM

2015-09-17T16:40:03-04:00

Although I don't know your work climate, I would say your family is correct. Just because you can legally take off the time you need for the military doesn't mean you should. Regardless of who chimes in after me, employers take Guardsmen and Reservist for employment with a high risk because of what you are mentioning. They probably don't want to hear your excitement about going either. Employers can easily find out if you volunteer constantly or are voluntold. Sure they get a tax incentive, so what? Just wait till you start getting tagged for training here and there that you don't want to go to. It all adds up. Now, if you fancy a HOOAH OER once a year go for it.

What would you tell a Soldier in your PLT?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 5:15 PM

2015-09-17T17:15:56-04:00

I will say exactly what you do not want to hear Sir.
i am in a similar situation, and as i would never get fired from my job - my time off eats up goodwill and chances of increased responsibility. I can totally understand it, since I wouldn't feel secure handing responsibility for a crucial portion of certification to someone who might not be there to see it through.

This is why I am leaving the Reserves, and focusing on my civilian job instead.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Sep 17 at 2015 6:58 PM

2015-09-17T18:58:27-04:00

I know that this will sound bad to some and I have always strongly supported the reserves but speaking as an employer if a person is not at work it really doesn't matter why they aren't there. If I didn't need them they wouldn't be on the payroll and if they aren't there someone else has to be. What it can often mean is that a company has to hire extra people to cover for them. That is not so much a problem for large companies but it can be really tough on small to mid size companies. I also supported their service but it is hard to put one on them in a really responsible position.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2015 7:35 PM

2015-09-17T19:35:29-04:00

It all depends on what you want out of all this and what is most important to you. If your current civilian job is a long term goal on your list then consideration needs to be taken to ensure you grow in it accordingly. Yes, the perception is reality is very true in the civilian workplace, aside from all the legalities, you are perceived as unreliable and inconsistent, they might not be able to legally fire you but good luck on their consideration of you. If you really care about both careers then communication with your civilian supervisor is key and ensure he knows it's not just time off but actual training and work you are doing. The more they understand your service the more supportive they are. I personally had to deal with this in the past 4 years when I was given two commands back to back as an Mday and trying to finish law school, study for the bar and ensure my civilian employer kept faith in me while I was gone for all these sudden Commander emergencies. Since my employer was so considerate of my absence I ensured I came in on my weekends to make up all the work I was unable to do. I did not have much time off between both my careers but manage to fulfill both responsibilities and continue to grow in the military and legal field.

Response by SFC Michael Smith made Sep 17 at 2015 11:17 PM

2015-09-17T23:17:34-04:00

I was in your shoes early in my Guard career. At first my employer and co-workers were proud of me and my service. I worked swing shifts with 12 hr shifts on weekends. As the yrs passed and rank progressed, I was putting in more and more guard time. Drills were landing on my weekends that I was scheduled to work 12 hr night shifts. My partners could not take time off while I was gone or I had to find someone to cover the worst possible shifts. On top of that I would lose about 36 hrs of pay that drill pay did even come close to making up for. My employer was presented awards for supporting the guard but was not worth the talk behind the back and loss of friends. Just be thankful you have the opportunity to do both jobs, some don't have any.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Sep 19 at 2015 7:06 PM

2015-09-19T19:06:12-04:00

The vast majority of people in the National Guard that I know who are able to take time off for significant training are in a job which is conducive for that, such as law enforcement or working as a DoD civilian, etc. If you work for a private sector company and want to advance your career there, it is often very difficult to do more than the minimum requirements in the reserves. That is of course different based on the company, department, and even the specific boss, but as a general observation, I think it is a major challenge.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2015 7:52 PM

2015-09-19T19:52:12-04:00

Some companies work better with military than others. BLUF Sir, as long as you give your employer enough notice of your upcoming trading, they should be willing to work with you. Ensure you give them your yearly BA Schedule any any AD you will never be performing. If you still have issues with your employer I would recommend you to call your local ESGR REP for assistance.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Sep 20 at 2015 6:57 PM

2015-09-20T18:57:13-04:00

You do need the right balance between the job that pays the bills and your military duty. I would say that you have to judge the "command" climate at your employer to make sure you are not hurting the operation. Yes according to the law, they have to give you the time off and most employers will support you. However, if you have long term aspirations with the company, you need to make sure you don't do anything that will hurt your future there. I recommend talking with your supervisor to get his/her views and explain your side. That way, you can come to an agreement. Also, from now until you to BOLC, I recommend you focus on your employer.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 21 at 2015 1:51 AM

2015-09-21T01:51:03-04:00

1LT Private RallyPoint Member It is a balancing act. You owe it to your employer to be honest, and provide as much notice as possible before taking time off. In return, they owe it to you to support your service. Being a citizen/soldier is not without aggravation, and you have to remember that they are in business...
If you can find and organization that supports you, do you not feel that you owe them the same? A good manager will recognize that you are being afforded an opportunity to advance militarily, and should recognize that they will benefit from your enhanced experience.
When we go away for Military service, we leave our agencies in a bind. We owe them the courtesy of being forthright and upholding our end of the bargain. Strive to always be an unbelievable asset to your civilian employer, so that they take your time away with less trepidation.
I have personally found that letting my employer know what is up, while still causing aggravation, is appreciated. I have worked for less than stellar supporters, and that is difficult.

Response by SSG Brian Lovins made Sep 26 at 2015 1:50 AM

2015-09-26T01:50:00-04:00

I am going to speak on my experiences, sorry in advance for being long winded. I left AD as an E-5 in 98, came back into the Guard in 10/01, I had a good job with a heavy equipment dealer, in 11/01 I was activated for airport security, I didnt end up going but missed a week of work, no biggie they never said a word, in JAN 03 we were mobilized for Operation Noble Eagle, I was gone for 2 years. Came back and went from being one of the top paid mechanics to being one of the lowest, they gave good pay raises every year and I missed 2, when I discussed this they made valid points that I had fallen behind by being gone, I was performing MP duties and I fell behind technological upgrades that were made in those 2 years, I learned quick and caught back up but my pay didnt come up, they gave me 3% just to say they did something. 8 months after returning to work we were activated for Karina and again I was gone for 45 days, I was promoted to E-6 shortly after Katrina, I had also applied for a promotion at my civilian job and was denied but promised based on my performance of filling in while the position was vacant that the next one would be mine if I wanted it, a few month later another service manager position came open, guess what? I didnt get it. I moved on to another employer and took a management job they even gave me more than I wanted in pay, my unit began having MUTA 8's every month (we were transitioning from howitzer to MLRS), 6 months later I was laid off, the reason they weren't making enough money to afford my salary. In reality it had to do with how much time I was gone according to peers but not upper management so I cannot prove it. Do you know how hard it was to find a job in November as a construction equip. mechanic. I ended up working as a NG temp tech then moving to TX. Once in TX most of the unit I was assigned to was deployed as fillers for another unit so it was pretty lax but once everyone got back we stepped up training, I was getting phone calls daily, there were last minute missions they needed people for so they would call me and say we need 2 people from your section in the next hour, so I have to stop what I was doing at my civilian job and start calling troops. Soldiers call all the time to ask this or that, not to mention daily emails that had timelines for responses, it became almost a full time job. My last AT was separate from the units due to medical stuff and I found out it was beginning on monday when I showed up to Saturdays drill. I am a field mechanic for a major top 100 veteran friendly corporation so they have always been supportive but the Guard doesn't pay my bills and people do talk, you become undependable and while they may not be legally allowed to use it against you, in my past experience they will. We were doing MUTA 5's fairly regularly and having to drive an hour to drill meant I had to leave work early and since I work in the field that actually meant I was not usable that entire day. Instead of risking the loss of a good job and losing everything for a second time I decided to retire as soon as i could, I would have stayed in much longer had things been different. In my opinion The Guard is trying so hard to be Active duty they are forgetting that the Mday Soldiers have jobs that depend on them and the Soldiers depend on that civilian job to pay their bills. My best advice is determine what you want more, do you see yourself going AGR or into a tech position? What are your long term goals within your civilian job? If your civilian job is where you see yourself in 10 years then sit down and explain to them exactly what is required of you as an officer above the weekend/2 week a year thing because there is so much more than just that, and only "volunteer" for things that you need for promotion, I can tell you for a fact when you become the guy that answers every call and says yes they will expect it every time they call you. I never heard any closed door discussion on the ones that almost never did anything extra but I heard a lot of it when the ones that usually said yes started saying NO. I never found a balance. Good luck Sir.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 26 at 2015 8:37 PM

2015-09-26T20:37:48-04:00

It's always going to be a balancing act! If you enjoy your civilian career and aspire to go further treat it like you do your Army career. Forward plan and set goals, and make sure you communicate with your supervisors that you have those desires. I left a rewarding but stressful job in the mental health field for a federal job. I absolutely love my job now in the respect I give them orders I leave come back and the show goes on. Unfortunately it isn't very rewarding. My take on the Army has always been "do it while I'm young!" I have enjoyed taking on the extra opportunities as an LT regardless if it was a school I might not of had a ton of desire to go to or multiple rotations at NTC. All great learning experiences! If you really enjoy what your doing now there's going to have to be some give and take between careers.