How do we approach the topic of transgender and ASAP?

SFC Vernon McNabb — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 19:49:52 -0400

I am a BN Prevention Leader (BPL) and a Company UPL. My unit just received transgender training recently, but as I was conducting a Company UA, I got to thinking...how do we proceed if a Soldier who was originally male/female goes through the process and successfully changes their gender marker?

For Example: SPC Sharon Jones (F) goes through the process and is now SPC Hank Jones (M) per their gender marker, but they still are female in the physical sense. Now Jones is selected for a random drug test, but does not feel comfortable with another female observing her (him) providing a specimen. Now SGT Smith (M) does not feel comfortable observing a Soldier who identifies as male, with female anatomy, giving a sample. Now flip it. A male Soldier changes to female while still retaining male anatomy and does not feel comfortable with another male observing. But the female observer does not feel comfortable observing a male providing a sample.

I am at a complete loss with this one. This was not brought up in the training. I spoke with the ASAP Coordinator and he was at a loss.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2017 10:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 22:08:00 -0400

That scenario is in the DOD Transgender Handbook for soldiers and Commanders. The wording is below. But the main thing is that if soldiers and commanders are treating each other with respect as valued and equal team members (as they should) then it should be something than can be easily worked out taking into consideration the feelings of privacy of both the soldier and the observer, rather than treating situations like this as a "gotcha" moment to try and show why this just can't possibly work.

A transgender Service member is randomly selected to undergo a urinalysis test
at their new command.
Key takeaway(s)
This scenario illustrates the importance of open lines of communication between
the Service member and the commander. The commander must adhere to
procedures outlined in the Military Personnel Drug Abuse Testing Program
(MPDATP)45 and Service policy.
Service member responsibilities
■ Discuss your circumstances with command leadership during sign-in
period to determine your options and allow the commander the ability
to adjust as required/desired for your comfort and the comfort level of
the observer, particularly if you have not undergone full surgical change.
Commander responsibilities
■ Depending on Service regulations, you may consider alternate
observation options if a request from a transgender Service member or
an observer is made. Options could include observation by a different
observer or medical personnel.
■ You have discretion to take additional steps to promote privacy,
provided those steps do not undermine the integrity of the program.
However, all collections must be directly observed.
45 DoDI 1010.16.
62
■ Consult with the SCCC; if unable to make special accommodation,
spend time discussing with both the observer and the Service member.
■ Ensure your observers are properly trained.

https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/features/2016/0616_policy/DoDTGHandbook_093016.pdf

DoDTGHandbook_093016.pdf

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Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2017 11:06 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:06:00 -0400

Find a different observer

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2017 8:36 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:36:26 -0400

I'm not sure which gender should observe but I think a decision just needs to be made and stuck with. Option 1: If you identify as a female, a female observes. Option 2: Regardless of what you identify as, a soldier with the same physical parts as the one being tested will observe. Both scenarios will cause someone to be uncomfortable. Welcome to the military. Soldier up, be professional and do your job. I in no way think anyone should be mistreated, shamed, bullied, etc. for any reason but I also don't think we (the military/government) need to cater to every individual that feels uncomfortable in every situation. That's life. I would be uncomfortable in a lot of scenarios in this world. Therefore I do my best to not get into those scenarios in the first place. But inevitably, it happens. So I say again, soldier up, be professional, and just do the job you're being paid (and that you volunteered) to do.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2017 8:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 08:37:42 -0400

Last time I checked, being "comfortable" wasn't a requirement of compliance with the ASAP program.
If Jones made the switch, then she is female and the female observation rules apply; if Jones is still male (per the Army), then the male rules apply.
Were it in my unit, I would use my most senior observer to be in the stall, with a second one standing by making sure no jackassery ensues.
Being professional solves a lot of these problems before they happen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2017 11:52 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:52:22 -0400

You just abide by policy and regulation, if they identify as Male, use a male observer. If they identify as female, you would use a female observer. As others have said, just be professional.

Your own personal feelings should never impact your ability to do your job.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2017 2:27 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Jun 2017 02:27:45 -0400

whatever the soldier identifies as then that is what the observer will be. simple..

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 11 at 2017 10:27 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:27:05 -0400

SFC Vernon McNabb You need to ask JAG and confirm, but Id bet "gender marker" is your answer, and "feelings" can take a flying leap.
If the gender marker is male, you TASK a male to observe the MALE provide the sample.... Feeling comfortable is not part of the task......Unless you swing that way (and I really don't give a damn if they do) no male is "comfortable" being a meat gazer, its a task, and you do it.
Having spoken to female SM on the same subject, the feelings were the same ..but its task, legal and justified, required by regulation...so you do it.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Oct 11 at 2017 4:14 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 16:14:17 -0400

Just another issue that points to the fact that transgenders should not be authorized to serve. The headache and accommodations that must be made to suit their lifestyle choice is not something that the military needs to take on. It is an honor to serve in the military and it would not be the first group of people that were not authorized to serve. We don't allow people that are too small or too big. We don't allow people with certain physical or mental deficiencies. It is just a fact. Transgenders are just another group that just should not be authorized to serve. Plain and simple.

Response by SGT Lisa Fields made Aug 6 at 2018 5:43 PM

SGT Lisa Fields — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:43:36 -0400

Has the sm received proper medical intervention their status update in deers? Or an exception to policy on tile? If not treat them as their assigend gender for all legal matters.
If a SM has transitioned. Find an nco thats professional and will do their job without commenting on the situation to be observer.

-Sgt Fields, Trans, UPL

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2021 9:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 17 May 2021 21:02:00 -0400

Have the appropriate military nurse/s on duty

Response by SGT Katrina Clark made Mar 21 at 2022 11:54 AM

SGT Katrina Clark — Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:54:20 -0400

These are very good questions to consider. Unfortunately, comfortability isn't something the military is good at. Depending on what their marker is based on DEERS is how they will be observed. Concerning the observers, they need to be mature enough to remain professional, put their personal feelings and biases aside and complete the task they were selected for. There is nothing "comfortable" about providing a specimen OR observing. Being willing, mature, and professional enough to take on this sort of responsibility shows plenty of character and personal courage on the part of both the specimen provider and the observer. This character and personal courage are important characteristics and values that exemplify the NCO and Officer corps and should be taken very seriously when it comes to sensitive situations such as these. If there is a potential observer that you don't feel can handle the responsibility of doing their duty as assigned with honor and respect, then maybe that observer is in the wrong rank and position.

Response by Sgt Jones Bragg made Mar 31 at 2022 5:28 PM

Sgt Jones Bragg — Thu, 31 Mar 2022 17:28:45 -0400

After seeing some of these comments I'm absolutely mortified. Why are we still willfully giving tax dollars to some of you.