How do I explain to a soldier that his superiors don't know what they're talking about?

2016-08-01T15:38:36-04:00

The last few days, I have had guys coming in where I work looking for a Fourragere for their dress uniform. Their superiors told them to get the "mostly red one with a little green" which would be the Belgian Fourragere. The problem is that these guys in 3rd ID are supposed to have the French Fourragere. The Belgian is not a temporary award, you actually had to be in WWI or WWII to wear it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 3:41 PM

2016-08-01T15:41:10-04:00

Have you tried tactfully explaining the difference to your superiors? I learn from my soldiers too, I'm not omnipotent.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 3:46 PM

2016-08-01T15:46:18-04:00

Get a picture of the one that is actually supposed to be worn, post it on the wall and point to it when someone comes in asking about it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2016 3:50 PM

2016-08-01T15:50:17-04:00

I have the same problem with guys in 3/75 getting the wrong unit awards. According the the Center For Military History, they are supposed to have one PUC (blue) with a silver oak leaf and one VUA (red/white/blue) with a bronze oak leaf. (maybe 2 bronze depending on company) But their first lines tell them to get one bronze on each. And a bunch of new guys were told to wear the JMUA with their unit awards, but you are only allowed to wear that if you were a part of the operation that earned it, it is not authorized as a temporary award like the other ones. Some of these guys were still in basic when 3/75 went on that deployment. And I know that may sound irrelevant to most people, I just notice it because I work with awards all day.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 1 at 2016 3:56 PM

2016-08-01T15:56:56-04:00

http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/DA_GO_1950-43_(WWII_Foreign_Unit_Awards).pdf

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 1 at 2016 3:58 PM

2016-08-01T15:58:04-04:00

https://armypubs.army.mil/Search/ePubsSearch/ePubsSearchDownloadPage.aspx?docID=0902c851800103f6
22–10. U.S. and foreign unit awards
(2) Belgian fourragere: only when authorized for permanent wear.

Better be an old dude (dudeette) looking to wear one of those

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Response by LTC Marc King made Aug 1 at 2016 4:16 PM

2016-08-01T16:16:57-04:00

Seems to me you have already answered your own question --- The problem is that these guys in 3rd ID are supposed to have the French Fourragere. The Belgian is not a temporary award, you actually had to be in WWI or WWII to wear it. Just tell them that -- you don't need to go any further they just want to be in the correct uniform.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Aug 1 at 2016 4:45 PM

2016-08-01T16:45:33-04:00

Sounds like they all are coming from the same place. Which unit?

Response by CW4(P) Detrottus Thomas made Aug 1 at 2016 4:59 PM

2016-08-01T16:59:34-04:00

When you say "Superiors" what rank are you refering to? A SGT..SSG..SFC? Do your research as it appears you already have and present it to your boss and so on and so forth.

Response by MSG David Rogers III made Aug 1 at 2016 5:05 PM

2016-08-01T17:05:16-04:00

Keep in mind there are two variations of the French Fourragere, WWI and WWII.
The WWI French Fourragere is a very green with a little red, and is a thicker cord.
The WWII French Fourragere, is closer to 50/50 green and red (I see the 3rd ID has this one in it's lineage).
Of course the Belgian, as you stated is mostly red with a little green.

I wore WWI and WWII French Fourrageres many times in my Army career. I even got to wear the French Fourragere in the colors of the Medaille Militaire (green and yellow) while in the 7th Field Artillery. I was always curious as to why we never wore the Belgian or Netherlands cords. Whats the difference if its temporary anyway? But, I follow the regulations.

I was also curious as to why nearly every AAFES Clothing store I've been to is so heavily stocked with Belgian Fourrageres. Do they really expect that many WWII vets to buy them up?

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Aug 1 at 2016 8:38 PM

2016-08-01T20:38:11-04:00

Shoot an e-mail to the Division CSM telling him the troops are being given bad info. Bet the confusion comes to a screeching halt in the form of a mass e-mailing to subordinate leaders on which fourragere is the correct one. Bet if you go to the 3rd ID web site there is a contact e-mail listed.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2016 12:09 PM

2016-08-02T12:09:28-04:00

It should be pretty straightforward to set them straight.
In the event of a debate, it should be easily resolved. Undoubtedly, command photos are prominently displayed in their company area. Unless they have the oldest CSM I have ever seen, they'll see nothing but the French Fourragere.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2016 6:49 PM

2016-08-03T18:49:41-04:00

Print out the difference in requirements and tactfully explain it to the NCO. Then the NCO can inform the Soldiers what right is.