How do I address a transgender or gender fluid officer?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:03:26 -0400

I am afraid that the military will update UCMJ for “misgendering” persons, if I was approached by an officer am I now supposed to ask what to call him/her/them and all the other confusing pronouns? And I do end up having to do that how do you go about asking a person how they identify?

Response by SSG Will Phillips made Mar 14 at 2018 5:12 PM

SSG Will Phillips — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:12:26 -0400

I feel bad for you son. I have no idea what to recommend to you. Check with your 1st. SGT & CO. I guess as long as it is apparent that you are trying to be respectful that should do it for now. Good luck man!

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 14 at 2018 5:13 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:13:47 -0400

Until Political correctness fully inserts itself into the Military, Sir, Ma'am or rank will serve as a back up. Don't look for problems that haven't occurred yet. Fear not their is a death by power point presentation and a command talk coming to a classroom near you soon. Then it will be annual certifications and metrics sheets.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 5:17 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:17:22 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I agree with 1SG Dennis Hicks. You can not go wrong by referring to them by their rank.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 5:18 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:18:04 -0400

Is this hypothetical, or an actual situation you have encountered? I sincerely hope "misgendering" does not become an issue worthy of UCMJ action. Current transgender policy is to address and treat any service member as they are coded in DEERS. Genderfluid is not currently recognized by the DoD. Personally, I would take a stab at it and have a 50% chance of being right rather than ask what gender someone is. Always maintain professional courtesy. If you are corrected, apologize and move on.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 14 at 2018 5:25 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:25:58 -0400

Until informed otherwise you can address by rank when saluting or acknowledging an officer.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 5:33 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:33:51 -0400

You're a PFC so you're allowed (even expected) to make some mistakes. As long as you greeted the officer appropriately as you saw them as male or female, even if they were to correct you, I highly doubt there'd be any major repercussions. Plus, most of us would understand such a mistake being made and may likely make it ourselves. The only way you'd get into trouble if you were under my command would be if you intentionally disrespected him or her.

Response by SGT Joseph Gunderson made Mar 14 at 2018 5:35 PM

SGT Joseph Gunderson — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 17:35:21 -0400

You don't because the military should not be allowing these weirdos to serve with a mental condition. You walk away and pretend like they don't exist because transgender/gender fluid/whatever is a damn fairy tale and doesn't exist; just like unicorns... And you can't address crap that doesn't exist...

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Mar 14 at 2018 6:10 PM

SGT Christopher Hayden — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:10:12 -0400

S'mam.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 6:11 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:11:32 -0400

You do it respectfully. Either ask sincerely with respect (careful here) or make your best guess, and if wrong, apologize sincerely.

Really no different then civilian life.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 14 at 2018 6:25 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:25:36 -0400

I really don't see a National Guard site in North Carolina having an abundance of transgender officers... But on the off chance that you have one wander in, sir or ma'am will do just fine. They'll have an official gender. It's not like genders are swapped around like hats..

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Mar 14 at 2018 6:32 PM

PO1 Brian Austin — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:32:05 -0400

Just address by rank to be safe.
In the future we'll probably be asking what their "non-binary pronoun" is. My daughter ran into that with a non-binary TG co-worker.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 6:43 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 18:43:55 -0400

Ask them!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 8:08 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 20:08:30 -0400

If you're approached by an Officer, address them by their rank. If you feel the need or want to ask them their gender, if you feel that it applies in context to your professional relationship with them, then just ask. This advice applies to your enlisted counterparts as well.

Good on you for being proactive, it bodes well for your future that you want to be seen as doing the right thing and asking questions that maybe aren't all that clear or may be uncomfortable for other people to ask.

Lastly, don't be afraid, just be aware: If you're corrected by someone for misgendering them, Officer or Enlisted, respect them. Chances are, you won't have hurt their feelings. They're human beings, too, it happens, and they get it: they're here to get the job done, same as you, so don't get too caught up about it, don't get too caught up with hurt feelings, because they don't really matter as much as getting the job done.

What matters is if you're trying, because that's all we ever ask you to do is try your best and give it your all, even the little things that are important to some people and stupid to other people, because those little things are what trains you to be ready for the big things. Attention to detail and all that.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2018 8:27 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 20:27:16 -0400

Stand by to see how that officer is addressed would be the safest way, however just use your best judgement and be respectful. If you are incorrect, then apologize in the most non awkward way possible and drive on. That's what I would do in your situation.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Mar 14 at 2018 11:35 PM

SN Greg Wright — Wed, 14 Mar 2018 23:35:09 -0400

Any trans officer that reads you the riot act the first time you stutter your way through it is an officer in need of the attention of his or her superiors. Have you never inadvertently saluted a Navy chief? (Some of them have stars that other sm's think are officer insignia), or read a sister service's rank insignia wrong? This is no different. A good officer will correct you politely and you'll move on from there. Also, you could just ask. "Respectfully, Sir/Maam...."

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 1:06 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 01:06:42 -0400

Sorry, but this strikes me as a complete bullshit hypothetical to express dissatisfaction with the Army policy. Are you really afraid that the UCMJ will be changed to create the offense of misgendering? Really, you sit around afraid that it might happen, and that you will fall victim to it? Bullshit. You address someone based upon their appearance. Believe it or not, there are already straight men and women who have features that caused them to be mistaken for the opposite sex. It happens. It's awkward and you move on. But if you happened to mistakenly call a female. "Sir" or vice versa, no one has ever suggested that become a UCMJ offense. So why are you so "afraid" that it will become a crime in the future. Again, bullshit.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 1:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 01:41:02 -0400

#Problemsthatarenotproblems

Let's worry about issues that actually exist.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Mar 15 at 2018 2:28 AM

Cpl Justin Goolsby — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 02:28:54 -0400

Are they wearing the male uniform or the female uniform... males and females still have 2 different uniform standards, so it should be painfully obvious how you address someone.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 8:29 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 08:29:01 -0400

In all seriousness though...I'm guessing this isn't a "common" problem, and that the odds are against you having to confront it often. However, if I was six paces from a senior officer of indeterminate gender, and really that concerned, I'd probably hazard popping a salute and calling them by their rank; "Good morning Colonel"...etc...etc. At the least, they can't ding you for failing to show respect, and at worst, you can probably find out pretty fast just what "they" want to be called.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 15 at 2018 9:45 AM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 09:45:59 -0400

My main question would be how are you walking by an officer that you KNOW is transgendered, but you don't know how to address them? I would never assume they're trans due to how they look, and if you've been told by someone they are trans they should have also told you how to address them. Other than that if it looks like a sir call him sir, if it looks like a maam call her maam. They will correct you if you're wrong.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 9:55 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 09:55:56 -0400

I get called 'sir' all the time... (On here as well). Usually in passing, gate guards, etc. Not in actual face-to-face conversations. (I know I don't have a pic up, but I am very female-looking-- body shape, makeup, long hair, etc.) It doesn't bother me at all. It isn't that I say it doesn't bother me to make people feel better about the mistake-- it legitimately does not bother me at all. If anything, it entertains me.

Most of the officers people see are 'sirs', so it is just an automatic response. If they don't correct it, I never even say anything. If they notice and get flustered and try to correct it-- I tell them not to worry about it. Easy day. (Then again, I am pretty damned tough to 'offend', so I might be a unicorn in that regard. A lot of women-- especially the ones who look pretty damned masculine-- are the ones who get their feathers ruffled about being mis-pronouned.)

I have watched the shift toward the uber-politically correct that you are worried about for a long time. We aren't quite there yet. I very rarely say this, but I will this time: that is for more senior people to worry about. You are young/ junior enough that this does not need to be on your radar.

If you get yelled at for getting it 'wrong' by someone, stand there and take the 'Alpha Charlie', respond respectfully, and let it roll off your back. Get out in front of it when you get back to your chain of command-- tell them what happened so if/when they call your command demanding some kind of punitive action for being 'offended' (which they can request, not actually 'demand' unless they happen to be your boss's boss), your guys already know your side of the story. It helps if you have a good reputation for being professional and squared away with your chain of command, so I would focus on that more than anything else.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 15 at 2018 10:18 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 10:18:40 -0400

Morning Lieutenant, CPT, Maj. Just use their rank and drive on.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Mar 15 at 2018 10:28 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 10:28:33 -0400

Throughout the History of the Military it has been Okay to address all Soldiers buy Rank. Things can get confusing just be respectful by rank if they want addressed by something else they will request it and you follow suit. Just short story from and old Soldier I was in Ft. Carson Colo. Working the Turret of a Tank Head down and feet up. I heard some one enter the tank through the loaders Hatch They spoke, How's it going if here Being in a tight spot and not being able to see and getting a little flusters, I Said: well s... if I were smaller I might get this done this year however that's not the case, Hey can you hand me that f...in Ratchet. He did and did not leave I got what I needed done and crawl out of my head stance position and came face to face with a full Col. I was red in the face and said sorry sir. Kind of hard to see from down there Sir. He just Laugh told me it was okay and said he did not identify him self because he thought I might hurt my self trying to get out of there and stand at attention. We chatted a bit and off he went every time I seen him after that he addressed me as his turret rat and I was okay with that.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 10:39 AM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 10:39:15 -0400

I don't see how one can go wrong if one uses just Rank and name.

That makes it easier than civilian life.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Mar 15 at 2018 11:07 AM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:07:18 -0400

You ask them. There is nothing in UCMJ currently (and I doubt there would be) about "misgendering."

Have you had this issue or are you just proposing a hypothetical scenario? We were told in SLC that they had transgender students there and no one ever knew.

You likely won't even know unless someone transitions after you meet them.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 15 at 2018 11:39 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:39:08 -0400

Putting the cart before the horse there kid. If and when UMCJ is changed for that, there will be a published policy telling you How to address them- worry about making SPC instead

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 11:47 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 11:47:46 -0400

What's wrong with addressing the "It" as Lt, Major, or whatever rank?

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Mar 15 at 2018 12:02 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 12:02:22 -0400

Rank and name works every time.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 2:24 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 14:24:33 -0400

PFC Timothy Mangum, Speaking from experience I have always gone with my gut and then the individual will correct me for future reference. They are almost always self-deprecating in their response as if they get it all the time, at least that has been my experience. Once you know, just be sure to remember next time. Then and only then should you worry about some type of reprimand. The best rule of thumb is to always be honest. If you didn't know, you didn't know, but you can learn from your mistakes.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Mar 15 at 2018 9:18 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 21:18:07 -0400

What ever rank they are wearing.

Response by Cpl Zach Wellborn made Mar 15 at 2018 9:51 PM

Cpl Zach Wellborn — Thu, 15 Mar 2018 21:51:09 -0400

Fuck how they identify. Sir or mam, not anything else. If they bring up anything in their personal life to a junior rank, they have no business leading anyone.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 7:19 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 07:19:24 -0400

I do not, for one moment, believe this is a legitimate question. It's a straw-man argument meant to get people to agree with you or pat you on the back.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:30 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 08:30:33 -0400

its how they announce them selves, you accept it and respect them just any other human being.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:53 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 08:53:41 -0400

Simple solution to what could one day be a complex problem (I sincerely hope not). Simply refer to them by rank as it is already gender neutral. Yes LT, No CPT, etc... will suffice quite well.

Response by PO2 Raven Attwood made Mar 22 at 2018 11:45 PM

PO2 Raven Attwood — Thu, 22 Mar 2018 23:45:33 -0400

Worry about UCMJ changes when they actually happen.
Go by uniform or hair. If you still aren't sure, skip the gendered address (yes sir, yes ma'am) and just use rank (yes, Captain, yes, LT, etc.). If you misgender someone and they correct you, then you know, so don't do it again. If you see someone out of uniform and need to inquire about their pronouns, just be polite about it. "Which pronouns do you prefer?" Is good phrasing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 4 at 2018 11:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 May 2018 23:51:13 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Just address the Soldier, NCO or Officer by their rank and name. If you must know someone's gender, and they out rank you then that's on you. It's honestly important for me when it's about grading the APFT, helping a urinalysis, and to maintain the uniform standards. When it's off-duty I don't care what they do or what they identity as, as long as it's ethical, moral and legal.

Response by SGT Lisa Fields made Aug 6 at 2018 5:37 PM

SGT Lisa Fields — Mon, 06 Aug 2018 17:37:40 -0400

Don't be scared it's not fucking serious. If you don't know just fucking ask the person. These are soldiers first last and foremost we ain't snowflakes. Now you do it intentionally with malice expect an assignment chewing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2018 8:09 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:09:19 -0400

Just be respectful. If they look male, call them Sir. If they look female, call them Ma'am. Hopefully, if you're in this position, they've addressed you and the voice should help you figure it out. If they look male, have a deeper voice and select a masculine haircut for themselves...honestly, they shouldn't be upset you think they're a man. I don't see it happening to much the other way since a male can't wear their hair long, as a female can.

If you're just in passing and rendering courtesy, salute and yell HOOAH. I've done that before, myself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 28 at 2018 10:41 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Sep 2018 10:41:10 -0400

You wouldn't be the first person to call a Ma'am "Sir" and you won't be punished for it.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2019 11:05 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Jun 2019 23:05:34 -0400

[Rank]
Example, "Captain"