How can you be grown enough to give your life for your country but not grown enough that you need a curfew in Korea?

2016-02-29T06:57:50-05:00

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 29 at 2016 7:17 AM

2016-02-29T07:17:28-05:00

Same way that you can legally not drink in the US after signing up.

There are inconsistencies in Laws, Regulations, and Policies regarding the "Subjective" standard of Maturity. The Law uses age (either 18 or 21). Insurance companies use age and statistics. The military likes to use Rank (which often correlates with age).

Our measuring stick is Objective (Age, rank, whatever) for a concept that is Subjective (Maturity) in nature.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 7:23 AM

2016-02-29T07:23:24-05:00

I was in South Korea 2001-2002 time frame and the curfew didn't start where I was at Suwon Airbase, till after 9-11 when they lifted the complete lock down of the post. But as I believe it the northern camps which were up and till now ran by 2id have always had a curfew from their troops in effect. I believe it has to do with trying to keep young 18, 19 and 20 somethings who see women, beer and freedom for the first time out of trouble. Not saying it is right or wrong but I can see there point as someone who drank and made some poor choices while stationed there as a 20 year old male.

Response by SSgt Mark Lines made Feb 29 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-02-29T08:04:35-05:00

We had a similar type curfew system in Okinawa, Japan. While I did not like it, it did prevent idiots from doing stupid stuff. No matter how many safety briefs, threats, and examples made, there were still idiots who would ruin it for everyone else. Their jack-assery was then reported in the local news, and made life miserable for all Americans there. What was sad, it was not junior ENLISTED service members only causing the problems. There was a fair representation of officers and SNCO's in the mix as well. A demographic that should know better. As I said, I did not like it and it did put a hamper on one's social life, but it reduced incidents.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 8:06 AM

2016-02-29T08:06:03-05:00

Most times when a curfew imposed it is imposed for the safety of the service member.

We had a curfew in Japan way back in the early 60s.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 8:24 AM

2016-02-29T08:24:05-05:00

I was stationed in Japan for the past 10 years. There is a similar situation with curfew there. One of the biggest reasons is the American service members stationed there are under an extreme microscope. Anything bad we do becomes front page news.

Another reason is the "group" culture. The group is responsible for the individual's actions.

So when the less than 1% screws up it becomes huge news and the military must show the local community they are taking action. Combine that with the second reason and you get curfews and mandatory times to stop drinking etc.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Feb 29 at 2016 9:21 AM

2016-02-29T09:21:00-05:00

Last time I was stationed in Korea was 1998 but a few thoughts:
- We are in the Army to defend the freedoms embodied in the Constitution, not necessarily to practice them.
- The curfew in 1998 was called the "Warrior Pass". Basically only 10% of the unit could be off base on the weekends. Several potential reasons for a curfew that have nothing to do with trust in an individual Soldier such as: local threat level, overall political situation in Korea, good order and discipline, and readiness posture of the force. Hard to know the higher level reasoning for a curfew in Korea without more information.
- Is this a unit level policy or a theater level policy? Makes a difference as to reason and intent of curfew.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Feb 29 at 2016 9:51 AM

2016-02-29T09:51:40-05:00

Unfortunately there are A LOT of imauture legal adults, that don't have the maturity of a fruit fly, & they've ruined it for all of us Adults. The curfew has been in effect for so long, I don't know if the commands what to do w/o it.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Feb 29 at 2016 9:52 AM

2016-02-29T09:52:35-05:00

Yes it is a bit confusing. I was stationed up at Camp Casey, Camp Nimble to be exact, and if anyone is familiar with that area, they know that Camp Nimble is just basically a post with Barracks. Camp Casey has all the essential things such as the PX, the clubs and all that good stuff. So when it came to entertainment those of us at Camp Nimble had to be back on post in time to meet curfew. So was a confusing thing to be grown and have to be back at your barracks before midnight.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 10:28 AM

2016-02-29T10:28:08-05:00

Age does not directly equate to maturity level. Besides that, why stay out past curfew anyway? Only bad things happen in the late night, while in a different country.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 11:51 AM

2016-02-29T11:51:12-05:00

Because in the past, some dumb*sses ruined for everyone else that followed. Always better to lock the barn AFTER the horse is stolen.

Response by Capt Mark Strobl made Feb 29 at 2016 12:28 PM

2016-02-29T12:28:13-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member - Curfews aren't designed for those who can conduct themselves in an adult manner. Rather their focus is to give protection from those who can NOT.

Response by 1SG Todd Sullivan made Feb 29 at 2016 12:32 PM

2016-02-29T12:32:32-05:00

I am sorry guys your not gonna like my response here, I had to stop reading the comments it was getting laborious.... I was at Camp Liberty Bell 92-93... There was no curfew except when the last bus went north..... BUT..... There was a curfew across the board (or so we were told) for everyone else, HAVE YOU SEEN THE ROITS THERE?? We got caught in the subway while up on the Main Street (Souel) there was a huge student protest/riot. NOW add in the current terror threat and what's going on with the North. I don't care if you 7 foot 10.. Your not bullet proof, your not safe from attack just cause your a "big" guy or your "a smart" guy. Got think big picture and outside the box on this one Soldiers lives are on the line. I didn't like getting rousted out of the places I was at to get into a cab by the MP's or security forces because it was "to late" I didn't get to make it anywhere other than our Katusa snack bar very often, but it made a little sense then and even more now.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 29 at 2016 12:57 PM

2016-02-29T12:57:09-05:00

Many times, it is for the protection of the service members. As I recall the curfew was to be off the streets at some given period of time. No one said (back then) that you had to be back on ship or station. That may have changed. JP, if you are attacked by a group, they normally win, despite any pain you may inflict upon them.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 6:08 PM

2016-02-29T18:08:13-05:00

Thanks for your comments but I think curfew has no place here. I was in Europe during the Cold War and we had no curfew, what makes Korea so difference. Where else in the world, which is harmful to Soldiers, forcing a curfew?

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Feb 29 at 2016 6:19 PM

2016-02-29T18:19:26-05:00

Because unfortunately enough grown-ups before you screwed things up badly enough that a curfew had to be initiated or continued from bygone days.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 7:24 AM

2016-03-01T07:24:26-05:00

I have been stationed in Korea twice. I agree with the curfew. No matter your Rank or age, too many Military personnel do stupid things there. Korea can make or break you as a Service member. I have seen it many times.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Mar 1 at 2016 9:32 AM

2016-03-01T09:32:10-05:00

Did my tour in the Land Of the Morning Calm in 64-65. We had a midnight curfew for enlisted troops but not for officers, they had a sundown curfew. It wasn't that we weren't trusted to behave ourselves as gentlemen while in the presence of the flower of Korean womanhood or that we would get wasted and attempt to field strip the entire village. It was because those sneaky little devils from up north would come down to set up OP's and watch us play. Why, they'd even take potshots at us in the guard towers(Wanna feel naked? Try pulling guard in a plywood box ten feet up in the air, armed with a 12 gauge trench gun and have someone out in the dark shoot at you with the biggest rifle in the world). And this when we had rotated off the Zone.
We actually believed the curfews were for our own safety. Could that still be true?

Response by SPC Nancy Claiborne made Mar 1 at 2016 12:17 PM

2016-03-01T12:17:17-05:00

From my own experience with Korea.. Seems like the opp tempo is it"s own animal as things are done so differently over there as compared to any other place I have been before.
I feel your pain, because I was in my mid 40's when I was there. Korea is why I left the Army, that craziness was the camal's straw for me.
It won't last forever and there will be other duty stations after that place. Good Luck Sarge!

Response by SP5 Matt Porter made Mar 2 at 2016 1:23 PM

2016-03-02T13:23:44-05:00

They have their reasons. I'm sure the curfew prevented some of us young and first duty types out of a Korean jail.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Mar 8 at 2016 8:04 AM

2016-03-08T08:04:49-05:00

I spent a year in the ROK and hated that policy to no end.
I generally find that the more restrictions placed on individuals, the more likely they are to push against the restrictions.
Sexual assault is NOT a problem of a lack of a curfew: it's a violent criminal act. Deal with it as such.
I hated my time in Korea SO much that I reclassed, learned a CENTCOM language and went Airborne so as to never EVER see that place or its absurd rules EVER again.

As I see it: we are an all-volunteer force. We have never required more strategic thinking from our junior leaders. If a servicemember cannot be trusted to NOT commit a felony, then we don't need that person. If the curfew is the only thing standing between that person and a LONG prison sentence, we DO NOT need that person.

If you treat people like convicts and/or children they will behave as convicts or children.

Response by SSG Vince Sanchez made Mar 10 at 2016 2:11 PM

2016-03-10T14:11:04-05:00

Haha, goor point

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2016 8:08 AM

2016-03-22T08:08:05-04:00

SFC Berry, check out this article and you will have a better understanding of the imposed curfews on the Korean Peninsula. I was at Camp Humphreys in 93-94 and we had some periods that we could not even leave the post due to a few ignorant Americans doing dumb stuff. http://www.rokdrop.net/2015/08/gi-flashbacks-the-1992-private-kenneth-markle-murder-case/

GI Flashbacks: The 1992 Private Kenneth Markle Murder Case

Introduction There has been many murder cases involving USFK servicemembers over the years, however there probably not one that was more gruesome than the murder committed by West Virginia native P…