How can we still afford all of the contract cleaning and other contracts while cutting the fighting force??

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 08:17:13 -0500

It makes no sense to me to be taking the fighting force down to under 500k and still pay people to cut the grass, clean the offices, etc. I remember cutting grass, painting, cleaning and all of the other chores that it takes to keep facilities up.

Response by LTC Jason Strickland made Dec 14 at 2014 8:18 AM

LTC Jason Strickland — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 08:18:48 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member - it doesn't make any sense. Someone has to make the hard decisions, and it seems everyone is looking to someone else to make that decision! Let's do the right thing and cut some services in order to maintain our fighting force...

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 8:42 AM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 08:42:28 -0500

LTC Private RallyPoint Member, I think you have a good point, but it seems like the other post on RallyPoint about the GOs/FOs getting $35K to maintain (upgrade) their quarters: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/go-fo-entitlements

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably small potatoes. The challenge is, as LTC Jason Strickland (and you) said, that somebody has to make the tough decisions to cut things, because a lot of small potatoes are tucked away in the defense budget.

GO/FO Entitlements | RallyPoint

Hypocrisy of our General Officers/Flag Officers needs to be reeled in! They each get up to $35K to remodel their "base house" every time they move (which is about every year) and yet are so quick to cut our benefits. I didn't hear or read ONE report to have their base housing "entitlement" reduced or cut. I'm not saying that these men and woman have it easy, but when they boldly sit before our congress and report that service members can do...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 9:30 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:30:15 -0500

Sir, this is a very good point. I will say that I think we should cancel the contracts and clean, cut grass, paint, etc. because it teaches young leaders time management and may help save money. I also think that it is imperative that we do cut some of the dead weight that is hanging around. So some of the personnel cuts will be good.

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Dec 14 at 2014 9:51 AM

PO2 Corey Ferretti — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 09:51:25 -0500

Before i left the Military i worked in the office that dealt with those contracts. Every building is is assigned a number that number corresponds with the level of care it gets. The Base headquarters would be high up and have the grass cut, the building painted and offices professionally cleaned. Now a tenant command building will have to maintain there own upkeep. We also have to realize that if we just put a base in and did not hire anyone from the outside community we would probably be told to leave with in a few years.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 11:05 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:05:18 -0500

Chris, I remember having our "extra duty" guys cutting the grass and keeping the landscaping of our company area in top shape. Then we had the build up to "All American" week in which the entire post was cleaned up!

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 14 at 2014 11:30 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:30:29 -0500

Your observation is valid
But here is good for thought
What good is it to have money to buy bullets for training if all the trainees are cuttng grass, gate guard, cleaning offices and other area clean up?

Perhaps not as big a deal when you have an over abundance of forces and can afford to have a red / yellow/ green training cycle where all get an approved training time befor the next operation... Much harder when the force is abetting smaller don't you think

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 11:31 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:31:54 -0500

I don't want this to be some kind of political conversation about the "higher ups" getting more that us or anything like that. Simply put we all must do everything that we can (within our control) to protect the fighting force. Next time you are a COR or are involved with those discussions - stand up for the hard choice.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 14 at 2014 11:56 AM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:56:27 -0500

Chris when we did all that stuff we had 18 divisions and a much heavier Echelon above division footprint. At the end of the day, I think we should be cleaning our own buildings and bathrooms (ownership). Got issues with cutting grass and other tasks as red cycle has grown to near METL proportions , especially where we guard gates where we did not before. I disagree with puttering with our buildings. Having owned a DPW, we frequently incurred the long term cost when we'll meaning people modified their buildings without talking to anyone first.

The other battle you will be in is with contract law. The contractors that do cleaning and lawn care are almost always Ability One aka Javits Walker ODay Act (JWOD). I reduced one of these due to sequestration and got called by everybody and their brother about why I did it. I then could not use another contractor without risk of being sued. In the grand scheme, these contracts are a pittance. As an example, my largest tenant unit had a 3 Billion dollar budget. My budget was under 58 million to run the installation he sat on. I was a rounding error in comparison. A chunk of that was utility payments. Another chunk was payroll. 9 million was to maintain facilities for 1000 structures, 84 miles of road, two federal dams, 12 bridges, 4 access control points, numerous operational test areas, and 6500 acres. These seem like huge numbers but they are really not.

Plowing snow is another area that either DPW or a contractor need to do. The road damage costs from amateurs far out weighs any perceived savings....and you can charge a contractor for damage. Even if you FLIPL a soldier for gross negligence you will never see anything close to recovering the cost.

In the wake of sequestration those types of services were cut drastically and some of those tasks handed back to the senior commander for red cycle and BMM. That low hanging fruit is pretty much been picked.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 11:58 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 11:58:19 -0500

Really simple, many do not want to make those hard decisions and use BMM and Red/Amber/Green cycle takings like we used to. It is not a hard concept, 'ARFORGEN' style takings can easily be done on military installations. Many of today's leaders will have to re-learn how to accomplish these missions while still ensuring some training gets accomplished...but all doable using good planning, OPORD process, and leader development.

Big we stop making up excuses of why we CAN'T do it and just figure it out and GET IT DONE it will get accomplished. I remember being used as BMM post-Gulf War at Fort Hood in 1991-92. It was expected that sometimes you were going to do these tasks. Oh, and Staff Duty (Runners, NCO, and Officers) ensured offices were cleaned with BMM or Extra-Duty personnel.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Dec 14 at 2014 6:59 PM

SFC Vernon McNabb — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 18:59:24 -0500

I am with you on this one, Sir. Last year, here at Ft. Rucker, AL, we had a DAC hiring freeze. The answer to budget problems was to not hire much needed instructors. However, we still had grass being cut, buildings being cleaned and other tasks being performed by contracted civilians. I see the need for DACs since they provide the longevity and continuity we need in a TRADOC environment. If the Army wanted to pay me the same amount of money to get on a mower and go mow the parade field, I would have no issue with that. I would rather have the smell of fresh air, as opposed to young officers sweating trying to figure out the difference between a back-up pump and a generator on a Blackhawk.