How can I decline PCS orders and a promotion?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:33:10 -0500

I checked the "Do not promote" box for the MSG list in 2019 and still got picked up.

I have 18 years 6 months AD and intended to retire at my small current post which is mostly civilian with a good civilian job already lined up. My wife is in her last year of law school here and also planned to get a civilian position on the same post. There are too many reasons to list but I am done with the Army. I was just trying to put my head down for 18 more months and get out. I was told since I signed an Indefinite contract years ago declining promotion wasn't an option and then I quickly received orders to Drum for 6/20.

My wife refuses to PCS. She told me when she moved here 4 years ago that this was her last PCS and she'd be putting down roots here and finally starting her career. I promised her it was the last and I'd make sure all my stuff was in order to retire.

Of course, the Army doesn't care about anything in my family life and I have no idea what to do. I was so close to retirement and it's all being ripped out from under me along with a divorce from my wife of 10 years and a long-distance relationship with my young son. My ETS date now has 4 more years added to it for a promotion I never wanted. I'm at the point I'm ready to AWOL or get a DUI just to save my marriage and stay put. I question if I was lied to and declining promotion was always an option.

Is there any avenue to take to stop this PCS?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2020 8:43 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:43:30 -0500

You drop your retirement as soon as you get there and just ghost everyone happens quite often. I'm probably going to end up doing the same thing. The Army's fault. They don't care about our family.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 4 at 2020 8:56 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 20:56:01 -0500

good luck

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 4 at 2020 9:00 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 21:00:40 -0500

Put in your retirement for serving 20 years. Don't do anything rash. Do you have anyone in your corner with rank to assist you stay at the post? The center of gravity for you (the true strength or capacity) is your marriage. It looks like your worst case scenario is you will be a geo-bachelor for a year and a half. Hang in there!

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Feb 4 at 2020 10:04 PM

MAJ Javier Rivera — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 22:04:04 -0500

You’re at an odd situation. My best advise would be to plan a short away from home and when you’re at 11.5 months from your 20s, immediately drop your retirement packet. You could potentially decline your PCS but it can potentially back fire at you. So again, and like many have posted, do an accompanied tour to Drum and drop that packet as soon as eligible!

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Feb 4 at 2020 11:18 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:18:50 -0500

Remember if you do something that costs you your retirement, your wife loses all of that as well. Children, no healthcare until 21 or 23 as they stand to. You have embraced the suck far to long to lose 20-40yrs of retirement benefits.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2020 11:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:38:10 -0500

Many individuals get picked up after stating they do not desire to get promoted. I believe there is a promotion declination memorandum that needs to be submitted to HRC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2020 11:53 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Feb 2020 23:53:36 -0500

How would you not be able to decline the promotion and ride it out till 20? I do not understand. My deputy Commandant here at work decided not to take the promotion to SGM and he is just fine. I mean, he is over 20 years, maybe that is why? There I'd definitely something fishy here. My brother was also just selected to SGM, has under 20 years and had the option to decline.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 1:35 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 01:35:17 -0500

You are not promoted, you are selected for promotion. Unless of course you didn't update your profile and are now a MSG. The three year SRR begins at pin on. You can find the declination statement on the enlisted promotions page. I'm assuming whoever told you that an indefinite reenlistment meant you can't deny a promotion probably doesn't work at promotions branch. HRC is like a box with a bunch of little separated geniuses in it, who are oblivious to anything but their own cubicle. The branch manager you call might know everything about assignments, but nothing about reenlistments, or compassionate reassignment, or specialty branches.

You're not eligible to retire in lieu of PCS, but you can PCS and drop your retirement immediately upon being eligible.

If you did accept the promotion and pin on the rank, you are still not necessarily required to stay an additional three years. The requirement is to stay three years to keep the MSG rank, not that you are ineligible to retire until three more years. If HRC approves your retirement they simply revoke your MSG rank. The other outcome is that they deny your retirement based on strengths if you did take the promotion.

Usually your branch manager will work with you if you tell them you are dropping your retirement immediately and you're within six months of that. Not the branch manager for the E8s, mind you. I've heard they can be very difficult to work with. But, decline your promotion and you will no longer be considered for an E8 position.

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Feb 5 at 2020 1:39 AM

CPL Gary Pifer — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 01:39:26 -0500

I'll trade with you... You can be the Brain injured Psych Disabled Veteran.. Deaf.. crosseyed.. 64 year old and I can be you... Thank your Lucky stars..

Response by CPL Gary Pifer made Feb 5 at 2020 1:42 AM

CPL Gary Pifer — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 01:42:32 -0500

Married 10years
..Aint that the time needed for her to get half the Retirement... If may have already been on the cards.... My SSGT friend was served on the day of his 20 year retirement.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 2:38 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 02:38:08 -0500

It’s funny how our assignment managers “know what’s best”. They’re supposed to do what best for the Army, your career, and your family (in that order). But considering all three factors?...not so much. It’s usually the Army and career. Good luck family. Made it this far, what’s another 3 years? Guess they forgot our spouses have careers of their own. It’s insane that they’re choosing to spend thousands of dollars to move you and your family even after explaining your plans. Here’s a few options:

Recruiter. Seriously. I hear AGR will take you if you separate from RA into NG under few conditions: 1. INF Branch (not assignments) releases the “promotable” you.... 2. The state you’re currently in is willing to accept you as the “non-promotable” you with the understanding that you become a NG Recruiter for that state... 3. You’ll have to recruit for three years. But hey, you’ll stay in the area and make extra money in addition to making connections. There’s a thing called “Sanctuary” (I know, sounds glorious) that will lock you into your State as you approach retirement as well. Next AGR board isn’t for a couple months so you might have time.

Wanna teach those 18.5 years of leadership skill. Try ROTC Instructor positions within your state. Research ROTC programs and seek out Cadet Command if you wanna go down that route. I’ve found it very rewarding teaching our future leaders. You might too.

Any MSG positions opening up at your post? Pretty obvious but I had to ask.

I’m not saying the aforementioned are the best but they're worth inquiring about. Exhaust all options and talk to as many people as you need to (Chain of Command, CSM, even the INF Branch CSM/CDR) So look up your local AR/NG Recruiter or Career Counselor, visit a few colleges, start knocking on some doors, and make a few calls. Worst case, you PCS, be a Geo-Bachelor for bit, and return home afterwards. Most importantly, get Houshold 6 to understand it all. Show her that you’re trying your best and Show her that you value her and all the hard work and effort she’s put into your marriage by keeping her in the loop, including her in some phone conversations and bringing her to meetings. That way, the people assisting you will know that they’re dealing with a united front. Good luck to you and yours.

Oh, and don’t do anything crazy. If anything, file an IG complaint on the grounds that you were not counseled properly regarding your promotion, the Career Status Program, and retirement. I dunno, there’s always a way.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 4:28 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 04:28:15 -0500

Not sure how it works for NCOs but i resigned from Active duty at 16 years and 9 months in lieu of PCS.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Feb 5 at 2020 6:03 AM

SSG Brian G. — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 06:03:50 -0500

Worst case scenario you accept the promotion and PCS alone for 1.5 years.
Don't do anything stupid. It simply is not worth it just to stay where you are now.

Is there any way you can get an extension for where you are? I have been out a while so I am not sure. Also avail yourself of your Unit Chaplain, he or she may be able to help in situations like this.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 5 at 2020 8:04 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 08:04:56 -0500

SFC Private RallyPoint Member Based on what I see in your post,
Retirement in lieu of PCS is not an option for you ...as that requires retirement within 6 months.
Selection for promotion is a done deal under current business rules..

So what to do about PCS??? I too was told in no uncertain terms, we had moved for the last time, we ARE home, you may PCS, we will not...... so my suggestion to you.. set your family for success at current location, pick your head up and PCS on your own. You do about 2 months at new station and request retirement right as you have 12 months remaining (so 19 years TIS)

By now in the Army you know 18 months is nothing ....its a deployment plus a few months..
Its 360 general work days before considering training holidays, national holidays and leave and pass days. Over the 18 months, you take a few days to go see family, they take a few long weekends to come see you and before you know it you will be in the retirement office signing final paperwork and reviewing your DD214.

NOTE nothing I said or inferred going ROAD. Retired On Active Duty... Do your job till the last day and that is not do as I say not as I do suggestion..
I was at NTC validating our DIV TOC for a unplanned / hardly announced trip to a non permissive location in Africa just a few days before I retired...And told the CORPS and DIV CDRS if my TOC went, I was going .....
Keep your head up, lean on others family and friends dont stop doing your job or planning for your future

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Feb 5 at 2020 8:14 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 08:14:25 -0500

1) Go to Fort Drum.
2) At 19 years, file paperwork to retire in one year.
3) Retire in August, 2021.
That whole indefinite contract was custom made for situations like this. With the old way you would have to get an extension to PCS --an extension you could decline and then still retire. But you are in luck because at 19 years you can file retirement paperwork, which will be approved regardless of your time on station. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book with the military. Giving a person orders right before retirement eligibility starts is a great way to stick them for a couple of more years. But luckily you are not going to a remote assignment or a deployment, so you can still retire. Go there, get a studio apartment, and retire a year later.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 2:16 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 14:16:24 -0500

You can geo-bachelor for 18 months and retire as MSG. It's not that long. Plus you'll earn an extra $500/month for that 18 months by taking the promotion and it will bump your retirement pay up by around $130/month. Look at it this way, 18 months inconvenience in return for an extra $9000 plus an extra $1500 a year retirement pay for the rest of your life.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2020 12:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 00:08:27 -0500

Unfortunately as long as you’re serving in the military you cannot make a promise to your family you won’t move again if you have 5yrs or more remaining before you can retire. Based upon your report date and the information you provided about your time in service, you’ll have 18yrs 10 months upon your arrival to Drum. If you backward plan and based upon leave accrual and 20 days PTDY for retirement, and 10 working days of out-processing, you can potentially serve 8-10months at Drum if you submit your packet 1 August.

Put a plan together, discuss it with your spouse. As a team determine the options for your family. You worked hard toward your retirement, don’t throw it away over serving a couple of months at a temporary location since your original plan was to retire. Don’t make a permanent decision while experiencing temporary emotions. It’s doable as long as you two work together. Good luck to you....

Response by MSgt Gary Hinkelman made Feb 6 at 2020 12:11 PM

MSgt Gary Hinkelman — Thu, 06 Feb 2020 12:11:34 -0500

I fully get where your family and you stand. I enjoy being retired military vet. However, my suggestion to all Active Duty members. STAY IN-do whatever it takes to wear the uniform.

Will a PCS be difficult, maybe only at first. I can promise a new sense of purpose once you put that stripe on. I can promise, that your wife will come around.

Maybe you PCS ahead of her while she finishes her degree. Maybe she comes with; finding at another college path.

I do enjoy being retired; but within 1 year after, I knew I made a mistake. Stay In, earn the highest rank you can, stay fit... Without the service, nothing will be the same.

Response by SFC William Allen made Mar 7 at 2020 9:26 PM

SFC William Allen — Sat, 07 Mar 2020 21:26:01 -0500

Seems to me that you haven't used your assets in the Army. I suggest you go talk to the JAG for legal advise ( to see if refusing a promotion is legal). Also, I would suggest you talk to a chaplain about this. He can reach up the chain of command that you can't, maybe even the CSM. There is always a way around the problem, always a solution.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 9:02 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Mar 2020 09:02:43 -0400

If the job you have lined up is a GS job that will pay the bills, resign. You can buy all your time back and stay where you are. If you're a gluten for punishment you could drill in the guard for extra money and retire from them in a few years to double dip on the pension. I resigned at 17 years and it's the best career decision i ever made.

Response by 1SG Joseph Dartey made Mar 17 at 2020 2:48 PM

1SG Joseph Dartey — Tue, 17 Mar 2020 14:48:33 -0400

See if there is a unit on your current post that has a shortage in your MOS with no expected personnel incoming or someone with a long expected arrival date. Have that unit submit a DA Form 4187 to DA Assignment Branch requesting you be reassigned to them. Sometimes if a unit is in the red in certain MOSs, they will consider that change. It happened to me once in Germany.

Response by SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret made Apr 12 at 2020 6:56 PM

SFC Sfc Darwin Maring, USA Ret — Sun, 12 Apr 2020 18:56:15 -0400

Put in for retirement B 4 you get PCS orders or Promotion.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2020 11:03 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:03:29 -0400

What is the update to your situation with the new Covid-19 stop move in place? Also you can talk to your branch manager to see if deletion of orders can be done. You should also look into the effects of signing a declination continued service statement (DCSS) as an soldier who is "indef". It is not worth it if you are given 6 months to leave service but if it just means you don't PCS and then you can submit your retirement paperwork then that is also an avenue.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 12 at 2020 2:13 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:13:17 -0400

Personally, I always kept a few connections, Milpo & DA, assignment clerks can work wonders.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 12 at 2020 2:14 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:14:53 -0400

Khaki still rules, even though they don't wear it anymore!

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 12 at 2020 2:15 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 14:15:42 -0400

Meant Khaki Mafia, my bad!

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Sep 12 at 2020 3:39 PM

SSG Paul Headlee — Sat, 12 Sep 2020 15:39:49 -0400

We're going to have to start referring to you as The Natural. I could only dream of having your problem.