How and why has our Government failed at resolving the Flint, Michigan Water Crisis?

SPC Andrew Griffin — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:05:37 -0500

This is truly Unbelievable to me! Is our Government willing to risk the health of their citizen just to save a few Dollars?

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 20 at 2016 1:10 PM

SSG Audwin Scott — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:10:36 -0500

Sadly that's exactly what it sounds like.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 1:11 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:11:13 -0500

... aren't the answer is an obvious YES? ... Plus, creating a crisis and ride in as a shining knight to solve that crisis is their best play book. This remind me the water crisis in WV ... my home.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2016 1:27 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:27:14 -0500

I can see not anticipating that the chemistry of the Flint River would induce corrosion in lead pipes. What I can't see is that when it was a known issue nearly a year ago, that it takes this long to issue a health warning and executing some kind of fix.
I can't imagine that they simply ripped out the infrastructure to draw from Lake St Claire like Detroit does. People have a lot of explaining to do, and heads should roll.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 20 at 2016 1:32 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:32:42 -0500

You get what you vote for.
Which government are you mad at?

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jan 20 at 2016 1:37 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:37:31 -0500

IMO it is because it is not a high profile city. Now if this would have happened in Detroit, shit would have hit the fan.

Response by 1LT Aaron Barr made Jan 20 at 2016 1:44 PM

1LT Aaron Barr — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 13:44:51 -0500

Fairly simple; the people of Flint elected Democrats to run things for the last 50 years, ran the productive out of the city, concentrated poverty, prioritized laundering taxpayer money through the teachers unions over the quality of education provided their own children, and pretty much ran the town in moral, spiritual and fiscal bankruptcy. This has a way of happening when you let Democrats run things for decades with Flint being just another in a string of cities including San Bernadino, Gary, IN, Detroit, etc., etc., etc.

Response by SGT Bradley L. made Jan 20 at 2016 2:00 PM

SGT Bradley L. — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:00:21 -0500

This is a very complex issue with a lot of misinformation, but it comes down to someone not deciding to put the anticorrosive agent in the water. The Department of Environmental Quality knew they needed to use the additive based on initial testing prior to switch from Detroit water supply.

The reason Flint needed to change was that Detroit residents hadn't been paying their water bills, and a judge ruled the city had to continue providing water to them. In order to do this they needed to increase the price to their paying costumers. The Flint emergency manager chose to have a pipeline installed to Lake Huron which was going to take two years, and they needed a stopgap until it was complete because Detroit was going to increase their cost by $19 million.

The first issue is who decided not to add the anticorrosive (Emergency Manager, DEQ, or Water Plant). The second is why didn't the DEQ double check to make sure the anticorrosive agent was being used. Third, is why didn't someone blow the whistle on this. The agent would have cost around $100/day to make the water safe, so only around $70K for two years. Still way below what Detroit water would have cost the city. Now the problem is going to be in the billions, and that doesn't even include the lawsuits, healthcare, or longterm care people will need.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 20 at 2016 2:00 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:00:33 -0500

A few thoughts:
- Define "government". Are we talking local, state, or federal government or a combination of all three?
- History. I am interested in better understanding how exactly Flint, Michigan got to the point that it is now. A lot of the reporting on this issue either does not address the history or only addresses it superficially.
- Blame. A lot of the media coverage is focused upon fixing the blame rather than fixing the problem. Fixing the blame is useful only in terms of preventing a repeat of the problem and not in fixing the problem itself. I have not seen a single local official (past or present) accept blame for the current problem but the state Governor has accepted blame along with promises to fix the problem and POTUS has appointed a "czar" although no federal official that I am aware of has accepted responsibility.
- Health risk vs saving a few dollars. In this particular instance it is amazing. In concept, however, individuals and governments MUST make risk based and priority decisions every day. The concept is not only basic practice but a requirement for good fiscal government. The key, however, is that these decisions are reasonable and transparent. Not sure these two criteria were met in this case.

Response by MSgt James Mullis made Jan 20 at 2016 2:06 PM

MSgt James Mullis — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:06:57 -0500

This is an example of institutional momentum at its worst. Once the government starts to implement a project it is darn near impossible to stop it. Even when everyone involved agrees that there is a grave problem, the project has to go forward. Why, because the funding has been allotted, contracts have been let, and (in some cases) the bribery and graft have already been paid. The constituency for the project (i.e. the folks making lots of money) will not allow it to be stopped. And let's not forget that the clean-up will make some of these same folks way more money than was allotted to the original project.

If anything this reminds me of the EPA's recent screw-up in Colorado and New Mexico. If you remember, despite the vocal warnings of local mining experts, the EPA chose to go ahead with a project they knew had the potential to release millions of gallons of toxic waste into the Animas River. To date no one from the EPA has been punished and they now have a Superfund cleanup budget to funnel money off of for the next 30 years. Oh, and we can't forget that the EPA kept their water quality reports secret from the towns and city's downriver from the spill for weeks, just like in Michigan.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 20 at 2016 2:20 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 14:20:23 -0500

This gets really complex.

We elect & appoint officials to be "good stewards" for our tax dollars, however we focus on "Lowest Price" over "Best Value."

As such, sometimes Health is going to come at "Cost." In simplest terms, if you are paying $100 per person for X quality water per year (made up number), and the cost of water goes up to $105/year, but you are only willing to pay that original $100 price (or only budget for it), you are going to have a drop in supply or quality.

The issue with this water is the vast difference in quality for the price. It's astronomical. It's not so much that they chose a different source, it's that the source they chose was bad.

Now, the underlying question, which is left unstated is "Is government going to look after the best interests of the People?" Ask yourself that question slowly, and out loud. If you truly believe the answer is Yes, I'd like you to check into any of the approved mental facilities on this "list" for psychiatric screening.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Jan 20 at 2016 4:06 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:06:40 -0500

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Jan 20 at 2016 10:48 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Wed, 20 Jan 2016 22:48:28 -0500

I'm watching the five on fox. Ford stopped using the water from the Flint river because it rusted the paint on there cars. So Hilary jumped to attention and blamed the new Republican Govenor. this ha been a problem long before he took office. And the epa knew about it.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 21 at 2016 12:26 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 00:26:12 -0500

Elections have consequences.

Response by SGT Bradley L. made Jan 21 at 2016 10:47 AM

SGT Bradley L. — Thu, 21 Jan 2016 10:47:59 -0500

Here is a really good non biased letter on the situation from the President of Kettering University. https://www.kettering.edu/sites/default/files/resource-file-download/KetteringUniversityWaterUpdateParentsandAlumni.pdf

Response by SSG Michael Scott made Jan 23 at 2016 8:47 PM

SSG Michael Scott — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 20:47:21 -0500

Yes, they are.