Have you ever been present when a weapon was accidentally discharged?

2015-07-23T23:59:50-04:00

The incident regarding the civilian firing his weapon at a recruiters office caused me to think about my own time with and around weapons. I can think of two times when a weapon was accidentally discharged. Both times the handler thought the weapon was unloaded.
http://www.policeone.com/police-products/firearms/articles/1354124-Causes-and-cures-for-the-negligent-discharge/

Causes and cures for the negligent discharge

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 24 at 2015 1:17 AM

2015-07-24T01:17:06-04:00

Yes, I have. It is inevitable over time. Even professionals make mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

Cop Shoots himself in the leg

#DOGECOIN This has to be the dumbest thing I have evr seen a cop do. That is saying a lot (thanks chocogirl105). For those who may think it is not real snope...

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 24 at 2015 4:41 AM

2015-07-24T04:41:28-04:00

Not really an accidental discharge, but we were doing an M16 shoot off an aircraft elevator on the USS Nimitz and the person next to me thought their weapon was on safe (it was on semi-auto), was told to make their weapon ready to fire, and fire. Person flipped the fire selector switch (to auto fire) and emptied their mag in a few seconds. They got pulled off the line and had their rifle qual pulled.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 5:53 AM

2015-07-24T05:53:33-04:00

I've been around NDs several different times. Mostly in country.
Can be quite nerve racking!

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jul 24 at 2015 6:04 AM

2015-07-24T06:04:54-04:00

I have seen misfires, but never accidental discharges.

Response by MSgt Michael Durkee made Jul 24 at 2015 7:26 AM

2015-07-24T07:26:03-04:00

Yes, I have. While clearing our weapons and going "green" upon entry to Kabul Airport. A NATO ally soldier, I think he was Bulgarian, discharged a round into the clearing barrel next to the one I was using. Unsettling to say the least, especially given that tensions were all ready high being in Afghanistan.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 8:10 AM

2015-07-24T08:10:32-04:00

I've been around quite a few, but they were all done in Basic Training. Was even guilty of one myself, luckily I was in the prone and my weapon was down range. Didn't save me from the ass chewing I got from my DS that I rightfully deserved.

Response by SPC Keith Strauss made Jul 24 at 2015 8:30 AM

2015-07-24T08:30:12-04:00

If you clear your weapon with a loaded mag in you are an idiot. Now you if you pull the trigger because you like the feel of it and you don't know where your muzzle you are going to hurt yourself or someone else.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Jul 24 at 2015 8:42 AM

2015-07-24T08:42:26-04:00

Yup ... BCT

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2015 9:27 AM

2015-07-24T09:27:04-04:00

This one could spawn several other discussions.

Yes-I've seen some ADs over the years. Mostly, they occur (beyond Basic) because service members are not trained adequately for the weapons systems they are handed. When I deployed to the 'Stan, the M-4 and M-9 were "standard" issue for pretty much everyone...regardless of rating , designator, prior experience...etc. Yes, everyone got the "crash course" (executed quite well, considering). Still, there's an enormous difference between basic quals and sufficient competency to carry a weapon like the M-4 carbine and not have incidents. Unfortunately, the typical approach taken was to default to controlling the circumstances, rather than ensuring the user has the skills to handle them.

Giving someone a weapon, then requiring them to carry it without a mag is just adding a useless weight for them to carry around and possibly lose.

Worse...sending "Private", "Airman" or "Petty Officer" Smith out on convoy with a M240G with the belt un-fed is placing a target in a vulnerable position for the sake of appearances.

We all know that certain weapons are "prone" to this sort of incident...especially weapons that charge by essentially going to Condition 1. Most of the incidents we saw involved the M240G and the M249- Personnel would "rack" a round when rolling out, then inadvertently have the bolt snap shut at the first "bump". Command response was to require vehicles to roll out into Indian Country without the weapon loaded! I was shocked at how many personnel were unfamiliar with the mechanisms of these two weapons, and how terrified they were of pulling the charging handle back. My SEL and I got together, consulted the pubs and held training on the weapon with all members on convoy...eventually, we convinced the CO that there was a "safe" way to leave the wire with our teeth out.

Same thing applies for any other weapon...safety catches exist for a reason, as do procedures for treating a firearm as "always loaded".

Furthermore, this illustrates concerns I've long held with the "Operator" cult following leading to personnel using ever more complex weapons and gear originally designed for the warrior elite. The M-1 and M-14 were rugged, simple, reliable weapons in their day...their "SpecOps" counterparts were purpose engineered for expert shooters' needs. What happens to "Joe" when the battery on his CQB scope is dead (because he hasn't thought about it since retrieving it from the depot six months prior), or its been knocked off zero, or the first round in his mag (that's been loaded for four months) is dented from the mag banging against the bolt?

Ammo is expensive...but not THAT expensive!

Get the guys out on the range, shoot a lot, get them comfortable with their tools.

Response by PO2 Peter Klein made Jul 24 at 2015 11:18 AM

2015-07-24T11:18:22-04:00

USS Mahan DLG-11, off the P.I. in the missile test range, 1968. I was assistant ship's photographer. Got permission to observe and photograph a missile launch. the missiles usually shot off the rail like a bat out of h%ll. This time it dip like a plane coming off a carrier, went out about two mile and the second stage started while still attached to the first stage. Two of the bolts holding the stages together blow off. Now the first and second stages are running full blast at a 45 degree angle from the intended flight path. Fire Control blew it up. Forgot all about the photos. I wanted to watch but wasn't sure if I should.
Turns out the telemetry was warmed up on the launcher rail without a missile.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Jul 24 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-07-24T11:53:39-04:00

My brother has, and lost a best friend as a result. This happened right after he lost two friends while deployed.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made Jul 24 at 2015 5:00 PM

2015-07-24T17:00:27-04:00

Yes, we had a couple of ND's (both involving blanks) in OSUT. One was into the ground at the CTA (all ammunition should have been long gone at that point), and one was inches from a soldier's face on our FTX. We had a full memorial service for him (as if he had actually died) and the offending soldier had to write good letters to all of his family explaining how he had killed their loved one.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Jul 24 at 2015 5:22 PM

2015-07-24T17:22:29-04:00

I had an AD while hunting with my personal weapon. Missed my foot by a millimeter. I learned my lesson.

Response by SSG Paul Setterholm made Jul 24 at 2015 7:16 PM

2015-07-24T19:16:19-04:00

I was infantry on active duty. The 1st annual training I went to for guards was artillery. The colonel took me to a firing battery to watch them shoot. He said,"if you look down the tube here. You will see the round leave." He walked over to the TOC. The 1st volley went off the howitzer blasted threw the trees and branches flew everywhere. A "plate" came off the back of the round and rattled in the trees. Someone came out of the TOC and yelled "CEASEFIRE" everyone exited the guns and we were waiting for range control. So I decided to see if I could find that "plate". I never did. When I walked back. People were getting chewed out. I had thought to myself,"wouldn't shooting that low change the path of the round? Maybe at that velocity it doesn't matter." I didn't ask anyone because it was pretty bad situation. Later back at battalion TOC I asked the colonel and he said,"you saw the misfire?" I have infantry background that was 1st time I'd seen one fire. It was a miracle I was there. Turned out to be a bad round not crew error. The round landed in the Mississippi River. Some people were fishing nearby. Luckily no one was hurt.

Response by SSG Paul Setterholm made Jul 24 at 2015 7:19 PM

2015-07-24T19:19:57-04:00

Active duty exercise, a guy Kuwaiti soldier shot the exhaust port of my m113 with m60. I was in drivers seat and ducked inside as rounds whizzed past. One round went down in my fan tower and you would hear it rattle around sometimes.

Response by Wayne Montgomery made Jul 27 at 2016 2:18 AM

2016-07-27T02:18:12-04:00

At BCT during our first ftx. We were sitting on the ground listening to our first sgt. A guy thought he had his weapon on safe... It was on burst and he it fired off. It was a good lesson for all of us about being aware of our weapons. Yes life sucked for him the rest of the day.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Jun 19 at 2018 6:11 AM

2018-06-19T06:11:47-04:00

Happened a couple of times when we had an indoor range at the Armory.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 19 at 2018 11:47 AM

2018-06-19T11:47:46-04:00

Twice- once when I was a unit armorer, and they were turning in wpns from the range- I asked if wpns were clear (3 of my worst scumbags)- they said yes. I told them to point them at the ceiling and pull the trigger- BANG!, we duck the ricochet. Both CO and 1SG dragged him away. Last time instructing USMA summer camp- hot shot did not clear wpn at the firing line, shot a hole in the lower part of range tower- several Professors drug him away!