https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For those keeping track of the comings and goings of Washington DC, you recently saw an agreement to continue to fund the government for 45-days.<br /><br />On the one hand, it is good that an agreement was reached. Many would have been hurt and our security would have been put more at risk if a resolution to continue funding the government at fiscal year 2023 levels was not passed. On the other hand, there is a major problem – we are not having the debate.<br /><br />We must have the debate – a debate on the size, scope, and purpose of our government; the United States’ role in the world; and the deficit – rather than lurching from crisis-to-crisis. Such a debate would not only bring more efficacy to our governance, but it would also bring more legitimacy to our government and political system.<br /><br />Yet, a substantive debate on the issues did not unfold during the recent continuing resolution process. Rather, if there was any form of debate, it was about process, pure politics, and theatrical in nature.<br /><br />Further missed in much of the commentary surrounding this recently passed resolution to continue to fund the government was a dialogue of what it all means for our system of government.<br /><br />Why was a continuing resolution needed in the first place?<br /><br />A continuing resolution is required to continue the functions of government because Congress has not taken up and passed all twelve of the appropriations bills. The House has only considered a handful on the House floor, and the Senate has considered none on the floor to date.<br /><br />What does this suggest about our legislative process?<br /><br />The government has been annually appropriated through what is termed an omnibus bill, which pulls all 12 appropriations bills into one giant piece of legislation and is voted on once. Those in opposition to the recent continuing resolution argued that Congress should no longer pass omnibus bills. It should instead take up the twelve appropriations bills individually so that elected members can debate the merits of each program in a “regular order” process, which is DC-speak for the legislative process we learned in civics as kids. This would be a notable change because there is only one bill that annually follows something close to regular order: the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA).<br /><br />The NDAA has passed for 62 years in a row – the so-called “do-nothing” Congress does do something. Both chambers annually pass this comprehensive piece of national security legislation that not only addresses the US Department of Defense but, increasingly, other national security agencies of government such as the State Department, Department of Energy, and others. It is a herculean effort to develop, write, conference, and pass the NDAA through regular order each year (believe me, I was part of it as a House Armed Services Committee staffer). But through regular order, the NDAA gains bipartisan support.<br /><br />The NDAA achieves this bipartisan support because debates – thousands of them – occur through the regular order process. At every step of the development of the NDAA, arguments are made, negotiations occur, and differences are hashed out. This allows members of Congress – from both sides – to have a program-by-program opportunity for input.<br /><br />Therefore, instead of the policy question being: “should we have a Department of Defense?”, the critical policy questions become more manageable, more reasonable, more nuanced, and more measured: “should we authorize program X to do Y or Z?” Regular order enables Members (and staff) to consider each governmental program, in conjunction with the President’s budget request, and in relation to their policy objectives. This not only makes for better legislation but also better policy.<br /><br />45-days from now, Congress will have to consider another continuing resolution, or the government will shutdown. But, in the same 45-days, the rancor will be louder; the mistrust will be greater; the process will be even more complex with the motion to remove the Speaker of the House, unresolved Ukraine aid, and continued disagreements over border security and immigration.<br /><br />Congress may well get through the continuing resolution process again in 45 days but not through a substantive debate. Rather, it will be through framing each side of the debate; characterizing the motives of each side; procedural and process-based tactics to advantage one party, one side, one faction over the other; and adjusting positions not through substantive dialogue and negotiation but through expediency given the impending deadline. <br /><br />Instead of doing this yet again, I say…<br /><br />Let’s have the debate.<br /><br /><br /><br />Alex Gallo is the author of “Vetspective,” a RallyPoint series that discusses national security,<br />foreign policy, politics, and society. He is also a fellow with George Mason University’s National Security Institute, an adjunct professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University, and a US Army Veteran. Follow him on Twitter at @AlexGalloCMP. Tue, 10 Oct 2023 07:46:27 -0400 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>For those keeping track of the comings and goings of Washington DC, you recently saw an agreement to continue to fund the government for 45-days.<br /><br />On the one hand, it is good that an agreement was reached. Many would have been hurt and our security would have been put more at risk if a resolution to continue funding the government at fiscal year 2023 levels was not passed. On the other hand, there is a major problem – we are not having the debate.<br /><br />We must have the debate – a debate on the size, scope, and purpose of our government; the United States’ role in the world; and the deficit – rather than lurching from crisis-to-crisis. Such a debate would not only bring more efficacy to our governance, but it would also bring more legitimacy to our government and political system.<br /><br />Yet, a substantive debate on the issues did not unfold during the recent continuing resolution process. Rather, if there was any form of debate, it was about process, pure politics, and theatrical in nature.<br /><br />Further missed in much of the commentary surrounding this recently passed resolution to continue to fund the government was a dialogue of what it all means for our system of government.<br /><br />Why was a continuing resolution needed in the first place?<br /><br />A continuing resolution is required to continue the functions of government because Congress has not taken up and passed all twelve of the appropriations bills. The House has only considered a handful on the House floor, and the Senate has considered none on the floor to date.<br /><br />What does this suggest about our legislative process?<br /><br />The government has been annually appropriated through what is termed an omnibus bill, which pulls all 12 appropriations bills into one giant piece of legislation and is voted on once. Those in opposition to the recent continuing resolution argued that Congress should no longer pass omnibus bills. It should instead take up the twelve appropriations bills individually so that elected members can debate the merits of each program in a “regular order” process, which is DC-speak for the legislative process we learned in civics as kids. This would be a notable change because there is only one bill that annually follows something close to regular order: the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA).<br /><br />The NDAA has passed for 62 years in a row – the so-called “do-nothing” Congress does do something. Both chambers annually pass this comprehensive piece of national security legislation that not only addresses the US Department of Defense but, increasingly, other national security agencies of government such as the State Department, Department of Energy, and others. It is a herculean effort to develop, write, conference, and pass the NDAA through regular order each year (believe me, I was part of it as a House Armed Services Committee staffer). But through regular order, the NDAA gains bipartisan support.<br /><br />The NDAA achieves this bipartisan support because debates – thousands of them – occur through the regular order process. At every step of the development of the NDAA, arguments are made, negotiations occur, and differences are hashed out. This allows members of Congress – from both sides – to have a program-by-program opportunity for input.<br /><br />Therefore, instead of the policy question being: “should we have a Department of Defense?”, the critical policy questions become more manageable, more reasonable, more nuanced, and more measured: “should we authorize program X to do Y or Z?” Regular order enables Members (and staff) to consider each governmental program, in conjunction with the President’s budget request, and in relation to their policy objectives. This not only makes for better legislation but also better policy.<br /><br />45-days from now, Congress will have to consider another continuing resolution, or the government will shutdown. But, in the same 45-days, the rancor will be louder; the mistrust will be greater; the process will be even more complex with the motion to remove the Speaker of the House, unresolved Ukraine aid, and continued disagreements over border security and immigration.<br /><br />Congress may well get through the continuing resolution process again in 45 days but not through a substantive debate. Rather, it will be through framing each side of the debate; characterizing the motives of each side; procedural and process-based tactics to advantage one party, one side, one faction over the other; and adjusting positions not through substantive dialogue and negotiation but through expediency given the impending deadline. <br /><br />Instead of doing this yet again, I say…<br /><br />Let’s have the debate.<br /><br /><br /><br />Alex Gallo is the author of “Vetspective,” a RallyPoint series that discusses national security,<br />foreign policy, politics, and society. He is also a fellow with George Mason University’s National Security Institute, an adjunct professor in the Security Studies Program at Georgetown University, and a US Army Veteran. Follow him on Twitter at @AlexGalloCMP. CPT Alex Gallo Tue, 10 Oct 2023 07:46:27 -0400 2023-10-10T07:46:27-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508218&urlhash=8508218 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Do you think many in DC are afraid of losing face, if such a debate actually occured? 1LT Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:11:28 -0400 2023-10-10T08:11:28-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508241&urlhash=8508241 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Debate? You have to be kidding. There can be no debate without respect for each other&#39;s right to hold opposing views. There will be screaming matches. Insults will be tossed about. But debate? Not a chance. CPT Jack Durish Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:21:45 -0400 2023-10-10T08:21:45-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508275&urlhash=8508275 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>While I don&#39;t disagree with Cpt Durish, I must say that this debate, argument, fight (verbal) does need to happen, it is likely the only way to get to where we can have discussions that enable us to a result which is palatable by both sides. Unfortunately we are not battling on two side, we are battling on four and even five. Each party needs to control there internal narrative before we can get to a strong willed debate, otherwise we will continue with chaos. CSM Darieus ZaGara Tue, 10 Oct 2023 08:47:30 -0400 2023-10-10T08:47:30-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508471&urlhash=8508471 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>44 States, Governors are required to submit a balanced budget. So why not the U.S. Government - because it is not in the Constitution (as if many care about the Constitution today anyway). So lawmakers don&#39;t really care just as long as their pet peeves are met, their pockets get lined. Big business, money and power have corrupted those we send to Washington it is not surprising nothing gets done except kicking the can down the road. So a shutdown, Congress doesn&#39;t care, they still get paid. Infact during a shutdown, all essential services remain open or operating. SSI, VA, Pension checks still get sent out. Ever go online and look at what services are essential`? Those services which have already been appropriated still function. The government still continues to take in taxes - every look up how much is taken in everyday? <br />Yes there needs to be a debate, but that debate needs to focus on who should be effected by a shut down. If I operated my business the way the U.S. Congress operates, I would have been out of business a long time ago. There is no consequences for any member of Congress if a funding bill is not passed. Americans need to wake up and stop being divided by parties and start being Americans and holding their Congressmen&#39;s feet to the fire. The trash is in great need of being taken out. Term limits needs to be placed along with age limits. Lobbyists needs to be banned from any contact with Congress-. Any financial gain should off set a Congressmen&#39;s pay. In my eyes, a Congressman isn&#39;t worth anything more than anyone who volunteers for the military.<br />Once power and money are taken away. Term limits are established as well as age limits, then maybe we will get a Congress who will work for the good of the Country. Until this happens you can debate all you want, but nothing is going to happen. The can will still be kicked down the road and &quot;they&quot; won&#39;t give a tinkers dam. SGM Mikel Dawson Tue, 10 Oct 2023 11:15:06 -0400 2023-10-10T11:15:06-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508566&urlhash=8508566 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>So many excellent responses. It is shameful that we all seem to agree on the point that our elected officials do not have the best interest of the majority of their constituents as their number one priority. Their loyalty is to party first, themselves a close second and then to those who elected them.<br />The era of civilized, intelligent debate (if there ever truly was one) has passed and has been replaced with the uninterrupted spewing of party line rhetoric. <br />To be honest, I&#39;m not sure any of our political leaders are even listening to the other side. That would require them to actually consider another persons opinion to be valuable. Too much ego? Fear of being ostracized from their party? Not getting their own pet projects endorsed? Maybe jeopardizing that contribution from big industry?<br />This is why term limits matter. I don&#39;t think anyone is capable of being exposed to so much corruption without being tainted. When you see it every single it becomes normalized. Lying becomes SOP. Kickbacks, payoffs, and political favors are part of their daily diet.<br />There is no reason anybody should hold national public office for more than a few terms. I&#39;m sure their are plenty of others who would fill the void.<br />Maybe that would help break the logjam. GySgt Kenneth Pepper Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:17:38 -0400 2023-10-10T12:17:38-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508589&urlhash=8508589 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>If you don&#39;t pay military , active duty, veterans, you are saying you don&#39;t respect. Consider or care for those who protect you! PO3 Michelle Tremblay Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:44:04 -0400 2023-10-10T12:44:04-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8508690&urlhash=8508690 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The only reason for the Omnibus Spending bill is that it&#39;s easy to hide all the garbage. I agree with those that want to go back to the original format and vote on each of the functional areas separately. CPT Lawrence Cable Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:47:54 -0400 2023-10-10T13:47:54-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8509299&urlhash=8509299 <div class="images-v2-count-1"><div class="content-picture image-v2-number-1" id="image-817544"> <div class="social_icons social-buttons-on-image"> <a href='https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fhave-the-debate%3Futm_source%3DFacebook%26utm_medium%3Dorganic%26utm_campaign%3DShare%20to%20facebook' target="_blank" class='social-share-button facebook-share-button'><i class="fa fa-facebook-f"></i></a> <a href="https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?text=Have+the+Debate&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallypoint.com%2Fanswers%2Fhave-the-debate&amp;via=RallyPoint" target="_blank" class="social-share-button twitter-custom-share-button"><i class="fa fa-twitter"></i></a> <a href="mailto:?subject=Check this out on RallyPoint!&body=Hi, I thought you would find this interesting:%0D%0AHave the Debate%0D%0A %0D%0AHere is the link: https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/have-the-debate" target="_blank" class="social-share-button email-share-button"><i class="fa fa-envelope"></i></a> </div> <a class="fancybox" rel="af2254adf494b8f0d16a2fa9ac5904b0" href="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/817/544/for_gallery_v2/0d41d442.jpg"><img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/pictures/images/000/817/544/large_v3/0d41d442.jpg" alt="0d41d442" /></a></div></div>Andrew Yang&#39;s one-word summation... <br /><br /><br /><a target="_blank" href="https://www.pgpf.org/national-debt-clock">https://www.pgpf.org/national-debt-clock</a> <div class="pta-link-card answers-template-image type-default"> <div class="pta-link-card-picture"> <img src="https://d1ndsj6b8hkqu9.cloudfront.net/link_data_pictures/images/000/831/790/qrc/open-uri20231011-103-1fk5aww"> </div> <div class="pta-link-card-content"> <p class="pta-link-card-title"> <a target="blank" href="https://www.pgpf.org/national-debt-clock">What Is the U.S. National Debt Right Now — and Why Is It So High?</a> </p> <p class="pta-link-card-description">See the latest numbers and learn more about the causes of our high and rising national debt.</p> </div> <div class="clearfix"></div> </div> CPT Private RallyPoint Member Tue, 10 Oct 2023 23:34:36 -0400 2023-10-10T23:34:36-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8510466&urlhash=8510466 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Ill chk out Vetspective PO3 Michelle Tremblay Wed, 11 Oct 2023 22:45:02 -0400 2023-10-11T22:45:02-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8510704&urlhash=8510704 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>To have a debate, you first have to have someone who has intelligence and all I have seen so far from congress is not that. I always said if you want change you have to first really want it. If the same people keep getting elected than all the complaining is not going to work. SPC Kenneth Berry Thu, 12 Oct 2023 05:55:42 -0400 2023-10-12T05:55:42-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8511239&urlhash=8511239 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have an issue with Congress breaking for a summer recess without having a budget. We no longer travel by horse back across the country, let&#39;s put them back to work earlier and for longer. You are there to do the work of the people not your party. Sorry they are not always one in the same. CW3 Kevin Storm Thu, 12 Oct 2023 13:00:45 -0400 2023-10-12T13:00:45-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8511411&urlhash=8511411 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>First off it&#39;s not the Senate&#39;s responsibility to formulate spending bills as that is the constitutional mandate of the House. If they send a Bill to the Senate and the Senate doesn&#39;t like it then the Bill goes to the Conference Committee to work out the issues so both houses can pass the legislation .<br /><br />Yet with this group of republicans currently in office who could not elect a Speaker When they took the House and has spent what little time in session going after Hunter Biden instead of doing the governments business. As it stands to day after kicking out the crap of a House SPEAKER they have yet to elect one thus hamstring the US House to the delight of Russia, China, Hamas, North Korea and what other advisories we have. Our Allies are looking at us as a bunch of fools who cannot be trusted.<br /><br />Another CR will be passed that will expire sometime in January because the Republicans in Charge of the House are not going to disrupt their Thanksgiving or Christmas holidays. Their vacations are more important than the need to do their job. In fact you can expect a continuation of government funding at the present level until after the 2024 Election. This is a safe bet and I&#39;m 99.95 sure of it. In other words no budget till possibly March 2024 at the earliest baring WWIII. SGT Private RallyPoint Member Thu, 12 Oct 2023 15:49:39 -0400 2023-10-12T15:49:39-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8515946&urlhash=8515946 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>I have more than a small suspicion that there is little if any difference between Democrat&#39;s and Republicans *in practice*.<br />I agree, they need to have the debate. CPT Private RallyPoint Member Sun, 15 Oct 2023 18:46:21 -0400 2023-10-15T18:46:21-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8517763&urlhash=8517763 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Some great comments here, but not many workable solutions. <br />Ideology has overcome patriotism. I know people on both sides that would never vote for anyone in the other party, myself included. <br />Back in &#39;04 I invested many, many days and no small about of funds, it attempting to help form a 3rd party, the Veterans Party of America. We did fine until the issue came up as to platform. Then we became split, almost evenly, into conservative and liberal. We could not overcome that roadblock and the entire idea just sort of fizzled away.<br /><br />Point: We either lost, or are ignoring, the art of compromise, of allowing each a bit of input, and placing the nation first. <br />It has become &quot;My way or the highway.&quot;<br /><br />Time to re-group. MSG Stan Hutchison Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:07:17 -0400 2023-10-17T11:07:17-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8531342&urlhash=8531342 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Many Representatives and Senators have no business being our government. They are there to create problems not solve them. Right wing Reps. And left wing Dems need to go home. I can’t believe Americans vote these nut jobs to office. Be sure to make these people you vote for are doers and not nilalist. SGT Kerry Sommers Sat, 28 Oct 2023 16:29:23 -0400 2023-10-28T16:29:23-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8532273&urlhash=8532273 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The majority of those politicians DO NOT respect our military. Most of them have never served. They are more concerned with getting elected, sucking up to the block of voters whose votes they bought (in the case of the Democrats, bought with taxpayer money), and getting re-elected. They do not give a rats SPIT for their fellow citizens or their oath of office. If they gave a damn about their oaths of office to support and defend the constitution , they would NEVER have some up with the idea of Democratic Socialism. Why not Communism next? LCpl Michael Cappello Sun, 29 Oct 2023 09:21:57 -0400 2023-10-29T09:21:57-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8532366&urlhash=8532366 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>It is like we charge things in our credit card and when the bill comes due we decide not to pay the bill. A one stupidity. Stop spending like there is no tomorrow and the bill won’t come due. Any 10 year old gets this but not the Congress. SGT Kerry Sommers Sun, 29 Oct 2023 10:47:45 -0400 2023-10-29T10:47:45-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8532713&urlhash=8532713 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>At least the speaker debacle is behind us. I still do not expect congress to step up and do its job to manage the budget, but one can hope. COL Ralph Bryan Hanes Sun, 29 Oct 2023 15:14:55 -0400 2023-10-29T15:14:55-04:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8568468&urlhash=8568468 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>This Is Like Pete &amp; Repeat,<br />This Is Nothing New, It&#39;s Just More Politics And Politicians Screwing With Us,.<br />And When They&#39;re Through, They&#39;ll Have Done As They Please, <br />But Not Necessarily As We Wanted Them To ~ ~ And In A Few More Years, <br />Give Or Take A Couple, Something Similar Will Come Up And We&#39;ll Discussing That Too. A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney Tue, 28 Nov 2023 12:42:48 -0500 2023-11-28T12:42:48-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8576949&urlhash=8576949 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>One possible way to stop this nonsense is to actually NOT pay Congresspersons during any gap. And NOT restore that lost pay. Those Congresspersons are not affected by a paycheck suspension. They are not living paycheck to paycheck. To really affect them their pay must be permanently removed for lack of acceptable work. PO1 Don Uhrig Tue, 05 Dec 2023 20:35:02 -0500 2023-12-05T20:35:02-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8625970&urlhash=8625970 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>In this same debate, we also need to discuss the funding of the NDAA along with the need to evaluate necessary versus unnecessary expenditures. The taxpayers deserve better accountability of where their money is being spent. MSG Brett Naum Mon, 15 Jan 2024 14:34:28 -0500 2024-01-15T14:34:28-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8626006&urlhash=8626006 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>The congress we have now can&#39;t agree on what day it is. They are children&#39;s minds trying to run our government. MAGA republicans only one word. No! They are spineless men and women that only care about themselves. I get 15 requests a day to send more money? For what? More of the same B.S.. I want to go back to citizen representatives. Go do the job for 4 years and go home. The senate is getting as bad as the house. I still don&#39;t understand how a poor representative gets elected and in a few years they are millionaires. Of course they will do whatever it takes to keep the WAGON TRAIN moving. We are near a cliff. MAGA and Trump will put us over the edge! SGT Kerry Sommers Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:15:37 -0500 2024-01-15T15:15:37-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8626051&urlhash=8626051 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>What the hell is regular order? It prevents the congress from taking tough votes. That is what they are there for. Every time these knuckle heads come on TV it always regular order this and regular that. They are experts at avoiding real issues and correcting them. It is sad that our government is becoming the biggest joke in the world. SGT Kerry Sommers Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:43:22 -0500 2024-01-15T15:43:22-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8626060&urlhash=8626060 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>remember Iraq under Donald Rumsfeld. There was 32 million dollars unaccounted for. Was there a hearing on that. No! I have never heard a lucid argument on what happened to that money. It is the same in every war we poke our nose in. The US sends tons of money until the going gets tough and then take our ball go home. SGT Kerry Sommers Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:49:18 -0500 2024-01-15T15:49:18-05:00 https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/have-the-debate?n=8626260&urlhash=8626260 <div class="images-v2-count-0"></div>Where are the checks and balances for all the lawlessness, what recourse do we have anymore. It seems as though the existing administration are doing whatever they want, no concern about ramification! Sgt Ronald Limuti Mon, 15 Jan 2024 18:54:09 -0500 2024-01-15T18:54:09-05:00 2023-10-10T07:46:27-04:00