Has civilian dress attire changed?

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:19:59 -0400

I seldom wear a suit or coat and tie. When I do, there is always a US Flag pin on my lapel. At a wedding last weekend, there were ? 30 men w/ suits. There were at least 4 Vets amongst the party, one was a service academy graduate and retiree. The only one w/ Flag lapel pin was myself.
Am I out of touch? WTF?
If you check the photos of my car, someone recently tried to remove one of the decals! They were foiled, I always slice decals w/a razor blade! CPT Aaron Kletzing LTC Yinon Weiss

Response by SPC Corbin Sayi made Mar 23 at 2016 9:24 PM

SPC Corbin Sayi — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:24:47 -0400

Anti-American scum, I'd love to catch them in the act removing the flag. Cowards are filthy creatures that lurk in the shadows and are strong only in numbers.

Unfortunately it seems to be a cultural rise, to be unappreciative of our flag and historic flags. It seems you are a target when you show the flag, or "I support Law Enforcement" emblems, etc.

This country has turned into a safe-haven for the anti-American movement. I certainly don't allow it, but I've never been lucky enough to run into someone stomping on the American flag... Probably for the better.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2016 9:44 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:44:10 -0400

I never wear a flag on the lapel of a suit jacket or sport coat. It isn't because I'm not patriotic, but rather I'm too forgetful to remember to put one on.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 23 at 2016 10:08 PM

SPC David S. — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:08:46 -0400

No not out of touch

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 23 at 2016 10:11 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:11:08 -0400

I don't connect as strongly with the flag as I do with the ideas around which the nation was founded. I understand the use of banners and signals, I wear a wedding ring to remember my wife and to signal to others that I am married. I wear a memorial band to remind myself of the brothers I have lost. I suppose I choose not to wear a flag because I feel no need carry a physical reminder of the nation or signal my association with or dedication to it. I imagine others feel similarly in their choice of accessories in suits.

Of course the miscreant's attempt to remove your decals is inexcusable and is vandalism.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2016 10:15 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 22:15:42 -0400

I always wear a flag on the lapel of my jacket and on the collar of my shirt if I don't wear a jacket. No, you're not out of touch. Those others are out of touch. I'm the only one at my church that wears a flag every Sunday. I see others wear them when it's Veterans Day, or Memorial Day.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Mar 23 at 2016 11:09 PM

PO1 Brian Austin — Wed, 23 Mar 2016 23:09:55 -0400

Definitely not out of touch!
I do the same with decals on my truck and car, i do an "X" with a razor. In Fleet parking in San Diego it was common for people to steal/ scrape off the base sticker year and month decals off someone's vehicle.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 4:35 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 04:35:32 -0400

"Trying too hard"? ...to show pride? I don't get that one -then again, I don't get a lot of things that happen nowadays.
For the lapel pin and civilian attire, I don't know that there is necessarily ill intent (though being an Anti-American American seems to be trendy), I'd say it's more due to the decline of the proper gentleman.
As for someone peeling your sticker, I will refer to something my grandpa always told me: "One day, you'll wake up ...and realize the world is populated with idiots."

Ultimately, I'd say continue doing what you're doing -pride and good vibes have a way of rubbing off on others.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 6:35 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 06:35:42 -0400

To be honest, other than politicians, I didn't know wearing a flag label pin was a thing. where does one get one of these pins?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 24 at 2016 6:48 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 06:48:27 -0400

Normally if I wear a tie, I use a brass rank pin for a tie tack.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 24 at 2016 6:53 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 06:53:02 -0400

If you were outside the US it makes sense, because it's different from the norm... It's kinda like when I see 10th Mountain Stickers here at Fort Drum. We get it. You're 10th MTN. So is EVERYONE ELSE. It's not special or unique. You're just like everyone else. Same with the flag in the states. We get it. You're American. So is EVERYONE ELSE. It's just weird to me to take pride in the most common denominator. You were born here. Congrats. You and millions of others. But what have you accomplished? That's worthy of pride. Happenstance of birth? Not so much...

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 24 at 2016 6:57 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 06:57:41 -0400

I don't think you're out of touch, just different preferences.

I usually don't wear a lapel pin at all, and my tie bars/chains are rather subdued or plain.

As for the vandals.... no words.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Mar 24 at 2016 7:22 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:22:37 -0400

Some people wear their patriotism on their sleeves (or lapel) more so than others. That's fine with me. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that others are less patriotic or have lost touch with what this country means to them. I often wear suits, but I normally don't wear any lapel pin because I think they make me the suit too "busy looking" and flashy. The same goes with pocket squares.

The attempts at removing your flag are another matter entirely. That deserves an @ss whipping.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Mar 24 at 2016 7:29 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:29:12 -0400

I think it leads to a bigger question "do we dress for success"? Look around (at least in the DOD Civilian Sector) most look like a bunch of free loaders and many organizations no longer enforce a professional environment. I think most of this is because professional dress and grooming standards have fallen from popular culture (like many other things).

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 24 at 2016 7:33 AM

Cpl Jeff N. — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:33:42 -0400

I still wear suits or at least sports coats with slacks and dress shirt almost all of the time. I don't normally wear a US Flag on the lapel but I do wear a small Marine Corps emblem. Most civilians don't know what it is. Those that served generally do and I start some great conversations with Marines and even those from other services.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Mar 24 at 2016 8:24 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:24:56 -0400

I always wear a flag pin on my lapel, not so much to be patriotic, but because I like the way it looks. I wear the silver rectangular flag instead of the gold wavy one.

I am in no means patriotic (but I'm not anti-America either), and you cannot judge one's patriotism by if they wear a flag or not.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Mar 24 at 2016 9:33 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 09:33:47 -0400

OMG it is a pin! Get over it. It doesn't mean anything. People read way too much into stuff.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 10:03 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:03:26 -0400

CSM Hayden-I'm not personally aware (which may be a problem in and of itself) of any regulation requiring serving active or reserve personnel to wear the US flag pin when in civilian attire, though I know it was something of a convention-and a good one at that!

I don't wear one for several reasons-First, I'm hesitant to wear "insignia" of any sort as a civilian; I've learned that I'm "one of them" now, and my actions speak louder than my "symbols". Second, there are subtler, more personal "lapel pins" I do wear on occasion to signify my service-the enamel MSM or NCM, my honorable discharge pin, or a small replica of the Maltese Cross of the Knights of St. Lazarus. Finally...when I see someone of "my age" wearing a US flag lapel pin, I tend to assume they are either a member of the elected government, or agent thereof.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 24 at 2016 10:14 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 10:14:41 -0400

I guess us older guys are of a different school. It's hard for me to display the flag as I'd like to. I do how ever had a flag patch I wore down range up in my work van all the time. 4th of July I will display the flag, hanging it on the end of my shop, but not up high on the flag pole as it is illegal here for me to do that unless I got permission from the police. i guess over here I'm still in the force protection mode if you know what I mean. If I was CONUS, I'd have an Army Vet hat to wear, and if dressed up, I'd have my mini ribbons on, jut because I can.
I understand you Chuck,

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Mar 24 at 2016 11:59 AM

PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:59:18 -0400

I see some wearing american flag lapel pins every now and then. It depends on the event and who the person is. I usually see it mostly with elected officials. For me, I wear my American Legion lapel pin when I wear a suite. It shows that I served and also doesn't generate any hate for the nation. I have found that there are a lot of people who are angry at the government and associate the flag with politicians. I am also the type of person who is private and keep things that have significant value or meaning to me private.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 24 at 2016 12:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 12:44:27 -0400

Because of you, I am inspired to wear a pin on my suits.

Response by SrA Matthew Knight made Mar 24 at 2016 5:30 PM

SrA Matthew Knight — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 17:30:07 -0400

As far as the flag with your suit, it's not a common or required thing by any means so it doesn't totally surprise me. My guess is that most people who buy suits don't go out of their way to find and buy lapel pins usually.

As for the flag on your car, if someone legitimately tries then that's out of line as you shouldn't mess with someone else's vehicle in any situation but my question is this, how long have you had the flags on your window? If they've been there a while they're going to go through some wear and tear, especially when they're cut like you said you did. Wouldn't be hard for something like a rock or anything else to nick it or for it to just lose it's stick and fall off.

Response by SPC Gabriel Botero Jr., MSW, LCSW made Mar 24 at 2016 6:06 PM

SPC Gabriel Botero Jr., MSW, LCSW — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 18:06:17 -0400

My first job out of the military, I was blessed to have a good mentor that was prior service. He used to wear his highest medal as a lapel pin (Bronze Star). He did it because veterans would understand and it was a way to show his prior service without being over the top. Ever since then I always wore a Flag Pin, a Medal Lapel Pin, my Aviation Wings Lapel Pin, or some other kind of Military Pin. I don't think it has to be a flag specifically. Every American should wear a flag, we get the choice to wear something else since we were the less than 1% to actually serve.

Response by LTC John Griscom made Mar 16 at 2019 7:39 AM

LTC John Griscom — Sat, 16 Mar 2019 07:39:12 -0400

When I reported to Fort Benning in 1964, blue jeans were illegal on post.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Jan 21 at 2020 3:03 AM

CPL Joseph Elinger — Tue, 21 Jan 2020 03:03:57 -0500

Someone tries to REMOVE ANYTHING of mine I slise them with the razor blade.

Response by PO3 William Taylor made Jan 23 at 2020 11:07 AM

PO3 William Taylor — Thu, 23 Jan 2020 11:07:14 -0500

I was in the corporate world 9/11. Overnight wearing a flag pin became a required accessory on a suit lapel. Today said accessory is a rare sight. I still wear mine and always will. BTW, I am a lifelong Democrat!

Response by SP5 Richard Welch made Jul 29 at 2020 6:49 PM

SP5 Richard Welch — Wed, 29 Jul 2020 18:49:32 -0400

Out of touch? No, it's an individual decision to wear a lapel pin. Do as you choose to, rather than what is trendy.

Response by LTC(P) Christina Moore made Apr 22 at 2021 12:37 AM

LTC(P) Christina Moore — Thu, 22 Apr 2021 00:37:56 -0400

CSM Hayden, thats disturbing that someone tried to vandalize your car.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Sep 20 at 2021 2:27 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Mon, 20 Sep 2021 02:27:29 -0400

Flag lapel pins were virtually non-existent before President Nixon started wearing them when he took office in 1969. (I did find a photo of President Woodrow Wilson wearing one but that was the only photo of Wilson I found with him wearing the flag.)
After September 11th, wearing a flag lapel pin became popular (along with displaying the flag in general) and has since declined as our general sense of national urgency has.
As for me - I don't wear a flag lapel pin and I don't put one on my car (except for the one on my Veteran license plate) but I do fly the flag in my heart everyday - and that's all that matters to me.